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christian prayer

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rick:
Hello Deji,


I don’t see why we who know and understand the truth should run or hide from those whom God has not blessed as of yet the way we have been.

When Christ went into the synagogue to teach the people, did the people know and have the truth ? Still Jesus went and taught the people.

Also, Christ taught His disciples how to pray, I think this praying in your closet is more about not being like the pharisees who like to pray in public only to been seen of people so that they would be as seen as honorable, which they were not.

When asked to pray, pray according to your understanding of God in spirit and in truth knowing your not looking for the admiration of men but of God, remember when it comes to God leave the political correctness behind.

One should reason it this way, I know Gods truth and you don’t so I refuse to pray with you or you don’t know Gods truth and I will pray with you because I care about you.

If Jesus said love your enemy how can you not pray with your friends or relatives?  :)

lilitalienboi16:
Hi Deji,

I find myself in a similar situation as the medical school I attend is affiliated, loosely, to the main campus which was established by the late reverend Jerry Fallwel. I personally had no clue of who he was until ours truly, JFK, informed me of his affiliation with the school.

Every wednesday, they have an hour break from 10am-11am for "convocation." This is where they put their hands in the air and sing praises to Jesus, tragically, a God they don't even know seeing as they believe in traditional eternal damnation of the lost. I have decided to "come out of her my people" and not partake of the babylonian richual. I leave class, usually go to the cafeteria and study for that hour. I take it as extra study time, sometimes I take a break, parouse bibletruths, read scripture perhaps, etc.. but I won't be apart of it.

Many of the professors also like to make an outward show of their piety by praying every morning before they begin their lectures. Sometimes we will have three seperate prayers from three seperate professors for three seperate lectures. For a week or so I joined in bowing my head. I would even add an amen. I was trying to do the "right thing." However, I came to the realization that in doing all these things, I was entangling myself back up with babylon and her decietful ways. As it stands now, for example today, I didn't bow my head. I didn't say amen. They also pray for things that I too do not agree with. They pray for the world and I think they do it more as a self righteous thing then as a geniune concern for the world. After all, if they were concerned for the world, they would probably be absolutely distraut at the prospect of that same world suffering eternal torture at the hands of their god. I don't pray for the world because I know God is going to do as He has planned and its not my job to tell Him how to run things but ofcourse they believe that God needs help running things and that as ray put it, 'He's running a damage control center from heaven.'

Prayer in that format is very strange to me because I pray all the time. I try actively, though at times of intent focus I fail, to be in constant prayer with God all the time. I speak to Him constantly so it is so wierd for me to just pause everything and  outwardly pray as if I wasn't just been speaking with Him a few seconds ago.

So I have grown beyond these outward shows of religiousity and piety and try and live quietly and peacebly while focusing on judging myself now in the fires of gehanna and enduring the trials that the Lord has set before me.

I get along with many of my classmates as well but I learned recently that their lack of understanding provents them from going any further in the faith. By the grace of God one of my classmates came to realize after our discussion of scripture that the lake of fire was not permanent but would eventually come to an end only to come to the conclusion that God was going to therefor annihilate His creation. I was absolutely heart broken and in disbalief... I saw the depth of satan and the futility of my actions. I had for a moment let go of the fact that only God can make a blind man see to indulge in this theological debate. I had let the carnal beast get the best of me. I was going to show them the real Jesus! Me! Alex! Boy was I wrong...

My own actions and efforts had the complete opposite affect that I thought they would. From this experience now I know that in babylon I must be very careful of what I speak of and chose my words very wisely. I need to remember to give an answer for the reason of my hope to those who ASK for it.

So unlike you, I HAVE to be here and EVERYDAY I must be subjected to these religious rituals and carnal practices but I try and look at it as the babylon experience I never got. I relate a lot to Daniel at this point in my life, taken captive, but according to God's will for a good purpose. It certainly is teaching me a lot.

Well I hope my experience helps you a bit.

God bless,
Alex

Dave in Tenn:

--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on August 26, 2015, 06:52:59 PM ---

Prayer in that format is very strange to me because I pray all the time. I try actively, though at times of intent focus I fail, to be in constant prayer with God all the time. I speak to Him constantly so it is so wierd for me to just pause everything and  outwardly pray as if I wasn't just been speaking with Him a few seconds ago.



--- End quote ---

That rings a bell with me too.  I certainly don't MIND bowing my head when 'grace' is said over a meal.  I think 'making a scene' can be just as much a 'religious' act as prostrating myself and howling like a dog.  And I can 'go into my (spiritual) closet' anywhere, at any time, under any circumstances...even in a crowd.  But it's like...I have to stop praying in order to pray?  It's like 'wake up, it's time to go to sleep'.   :D

rick:
Some other thoughts too, although we know Gods truths how do we fair with them ? Have you ever had someone take you by surprise in an argumentative way and you find the carnal mind take right over ? What happened ? I pray to God, I learn about God but I ask, what just happen?

I’m not here to be fake or to make someone think I’m righteous, I’m just a man born with a sinful nature who is starting to see Gods truths in my life, that’s it.

If you ask me if I’m a good man I will tell you only God is good, me I’,m a sinner hoping to sin less as time goes on but I know it all has to do with God.

I’m not using this as a copout but I don’t have free will, sometimes God uses me as a club in His hand and other times He uses someone else as a club in His hand to club me into submission, its how I see it.

Some days I want to live so much and other days I wish I could be dead ,but even that I know the truth, its not like being dead you get a break because the only thing we will ever know is life no matter how long we are dead, I think you know what I mean.

Anyways, just some other thoughts.

John from Kentucky:
Below is a little something Ray said on the first day of the 2009 Mobile Conference about praying at meals.

I had been thinking about the subject for a while.  I didn't think all the praying people were doing at mealtime and in public was from the Scriptures.

Ray's comments put me over the top.  I have never said a public prayer since.

I am not going to change unless I see Jesus do public prayers.  Especially since Jesus said do not pray in public in the Scriptures.  I leave it to others to explain away Jesus' words.  As for me, when He Who has eyes like flames of fire, and Whose face is like the Sun, Who walks among the golden candlesticks----when He says something---I listen.



SAYING GRACE
So a year or two ago I was thinking about this ‘saying grace.’ I had a friend and we went to a restaurant and everybody would bow their heads, people would be getting their food and we would be praying and I thought that was a little awkward. I’m not embarrassed to pray or to talk about God, but I just thought that was a little awkward, you know. So I got to thinking about where did that come from? Does anybody have any ideas why we say ‘grace’? When I say ‘grace’ I don’t mean say the word grace. Grace means gratuitous or gift.

[Comment from attendee: Was it because Christ was blessing the bread?] Okay, that sounds logical. Anyone else?

[Comment from attendee: Was it when He feed the multitude?] Alright. Anyone else?

[Comment: Paul gave grace before he broke bread, in Acts, on his last trip.] Okay, can anybody find that? I want to know where they sat down for a meal and before they ate the meal they ask God’s blessing and thanks on the meal. This is not a big deal, in fact I do it, it’s a custom and there is really nothing wrong with it. I just don’t believe it’s Scriptural. Some say I Timothy 4.

1TiM 4:3  Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

That has nothing to do with saying grace. Some authorities say it came from Deuteronomy 12.

Deu 12:7  And there ye shall eat before the LORD your God, and ye shall rejoice in all that you put your hand unto, you and your households, wherein the LORD your God hath blessed you.

I don’t see anybody saying grace over a meal there. Do you?

Well what about the first Biblical dinner? That’s found in Genesis 18:1-8, that’s the first real dinner mentioned in the Bible.

Gen 18:1-8  And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;  And he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, And said, My Lord, if now I have found favor in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant: Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree: And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said. And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth. And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetched a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it. And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.

There’s nothing about saying grace or a blessing.

What about when they were entertaining angels with a meal in Genesis 19:1-3?

Gen 19:1-3  And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground; And he said, Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant's house, and tarry all night, and wash your feet, and ye shall rise up early, and go on your ways. And they said, Nay; but we will abide in the street all night. And he pressed upon them greatly; and they turned in unto him, and entered into his house; and he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.

There is no thanks given.

What about the first Passover? There is no thanks given, no blessing said, not that I see in the Scriptures.

What about when they went through the field and the disciples were eating grain?

Mat 12:1  At that time on the sabbath, Jesus went through the grain fields. And His disciples were hungry, and began to pluck heads of grain and to eat.

Did they say a blessing over the grain/food first? It doesn’t say so.

Someone had said feeding the multitudes. Now that is a little different. That is not like sitting down for a meal here, because they haven’t even got enough food for a meal. Now He ask God’s blessing because He’s got a couple loaves of bread and two fishes and He needed God to multiply them.

Mat 14:16  But Jesus said unto them, They need not depart; give ye them to eat.
v. 17  And they say unto Him, We have here but five loaves, and two fishes.
v. 18  He said, Bring them hither to Me.
v. 19  And He commanded the multitude to sit down on the grass, and took the five loaves, and the two fishes, and looking up to heaven, He blessed, and broke, and gave the loaves to His disciples, and the disciples to the multitude.
v. 20  And they did all eat, and were filled: and they took up of the fragments that remained twelve baskets full.

That’s a special pray. God, take these little morsels of food and make a whole lot out of it. But that’s not the traditional blessing of a meal. It’s a miracle of turning a little food into a lot of food.

It says “looking up to heaven, He blessed and broke it” that’s true. But this was in the context of multiplying the fish and so on and of course they took up twelve baskets that were left over when they were done eating.

The Pharisees had a major problem with the disciples of Jesus not washing their hands before they ate. But they didn’t have a problem about them not saying a blessing or a pray.

Mat 15:2  Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.

Well what about the last supper? There for sure, right? For sure there we have an example of blessing the food and everything before they partake of the dinner. Right? No pale face.

Mat 26:26  And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and broke it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is My body.

Did you catch that? “As they were eating,” they already started dinner, they didn’t ask a blessing on it.

When did He bless the wine? It was blessed “after supper,” after the meal.

Luke 22:20  Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in My blood, which is shed for you.

Even after the resurrection did Jesus bless the food?

Luke 24:40  And when He had thus spoken, He showed them His hands and His feet.
v. 41  And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, He said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
v. 42  And they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish, and of a honeycomb.
v. 43  And He took it, and did eat before them.

He said have you got anything to eat and they said yea we’ve got some boiled fish and they gave it to Him and He ate it. It doesn’t say He blessed it or ask God‘s grace on it or anything.

So it’s not a big deal, all I’m saying is we have these traditions that you just know in your mind, ‘well that’s Scriptural.’ The church has been doing that for two thousand years, but I don’t find it in the Bible. Sorry, but I don’t find it there.

It’s fine though, you can start traditions that are not used in the Bible as examples. But the point is people do think it is in the Bible. It’s like the saying, ‘cleanliness is next to godliness.’ People think that’s a proverb from the Bible, it’s not in the Bible, okay.

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