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Rays teachings has set me straight !
rick:
Hi Jeff,
When I was apart of Christendom I mention I had issues with sin, their answer, don’t sin, I know that but how do I not sin, they never could answer the question.
Here we are told to be obedient, I understand that, how do I become obedient ? I am spiritually weak!.
Sometimes I get the impression from both sides that we start off in the spirit only to finish in the flesh, not that I believe either side, I believe what Ray taught and you do too, I too like you have gained much accurate knowledge from Ray.
The order of operation I don’t care about, did God call me first then forgiven me then gave me faith and then knowledge ?
That to me is irrelevant, what is relevant is that He call me I’m aware of what I think, do and say and I’m aware of the fact I am flawed because I’m a sinner.
I see changes in myself that I can only credit God for and God only, only Divine intervention can change a person.
What do we do with all this knowledge ? The knowledge is good because it keeps us from being deceived by what Christendom tells us about God. Jesus said those who worship God will worship in spirit and in truth, God is giving us the truth ( an accurate knowledge ) of Him.
God has been showing me that no matter how hard I try, without Him I’m a failure. The knowledge I learned here tells me why I sin and that I cannot stop until God says I will stop, and what Gods plan is which includes all humanity, God is making one huge family and we are apart of that family.
I’m sure you felt Divine intervention, if you just think about things that happen in your life, you will see God is there, if I say to you trust in God, its what you should do but you cannot until God wills you to, if I say to you be obedient to God, that is the right thing to do but you cannot until God wills you to.
God does all the work in us through us and its Devine intervention that inspires us. Its like Ray said, its all one, one Father one Lord one baptism, if one can name one thing they did on their own then they could boast but God says no one will boast and that’s because no one can do anything on their own even Jesus could not do anything on His own.
God is going to get you, me and everyone there because that is Gods will, and Gods will, will be done.
Hope that makes sense and is helpful. God bless. :)
Jeff:
Rick,
Tonight I was sorely in need of inspiration. I listened to the still, small voice, and logged on, and found that in what you wrote. I so easily get distracted from the Truth. The Adversary is vigilant. I waiver in uncertainty until God makes me certain. I falter and fail by my nature and only regret, repent, give thanks, have hope, and love - through God's grace.
What you wrote was Spirit. What you said is my understanding from the teaching Ray provided, but in my weakness, I doubt, and suffer because of it.
You are absolutely 100% correct. I am flesh and God's Spirit gives me clarity when I need it, but I'm still that flawed sinner waiting hopefully for God to bring me to repentance..
I can say "I will be obedient" but it's a lie. Only God can will me to be obedient. It's my part to have faith in Him to bring that about. I can't even say I will be faithful, because only God can give me faith. I can no more have faith, or stop sinning, or be obedient than I can predict the future.
I think it's great sin to believe that I can be anything apart from God. Why do I forget that so easily? Because I'm flawed and in need of grace.
You wrote that God is showing you that no matter how hard you try, apart from Him you can do nothing. I think that is probably the most profound thing God has taught me - and I still forget constantly, not believing the Scriptures, until He reminds me. It's impossible for me to be anything but flesh unless and until He is working in me. It seems counterintuitive to think that we aren't supposed to be everything Scripture commands, but the reality is that, what Scripture commands is for us to believe that God is doing profound works in us, and we can't even believe that unless God gives us that ability.
A vapor is nothing but air and water. It has no substance, or value, unless harnessed and used. A vapor can't do anything except "be vapor" until an intelligent hand gives it purpose. The mind that focuses the vapor to provide something useful is in complete control.
You are so right that God is going to get us all "there" according to His good purpose and will and until He does, until He gives us focus, until He drags us into repentance - we are helpless. Only His power can enable us to accomplish the very least of what He desires from us.
Nothing we do will bear fruit unless God is the One doing it.
If Jesus needed the Father, how can we even imagine that we could do anything of value, apart from Him?
Peace, brother, you have the Spirit of God guiding you, and I thank Him for that
Jeff
rick:
Hi Jeff,
Ray taught us, first the physical then the spiritual, when I meditate on Rays teaching on this I realize we all start off with the carnal mind. The carnal mind hates God, it wants nothing to do with God.
So we live our carnal physical lives being a god unto ourselves doing those things we wish to do, then through Divine inspiration God touches our heart and the spiritual journey begins.
My journey began in Christendom, I was excited about God and my relationship with Him, to me it was like a honeymoon I never wanted to end, then the time came where I was confronted with my sins, so I tried my best not to sin but the harder I tried not to sin the more I sinned.
I was operating under false doctrine and believe it was up to me to stop sinning under my own ability but I discovered I could not stop doing those things I enjoyed doing, so in time I left the church feeling hopelessly condemned and believed I was destine for hell.
Divine inspiration came to me again and back to church I went and this happen a number of times, and each time my sins turned me away from God.
Believing in hell back in those days I reason with God saying if I live 80 years as an evil man doing as much harm to as many people that I can I feel it would not be fair to torture me forever.
It was divine inspiration that cause me to google ( is hell real ) .
That’s the night I discovered Bible truths and started reading Rays papers on hell, I went to bed that night thanking God , the next day I kept thinking about Rays words and although I believe what Ray was saying I still felt an uncertainty because for many years I believed the lie they told about God sending us sinners to hell.
Today I understand the carnal minded person thinks they can save themselves with their works but the spiritual minded person knows they can do nothing on their own, it is God who calls us and it is God who gives us our faith and it is God who gives us grace and it is God who causes the grace He gives us to do the works in us but it is God who does it not us.
God is the one who inspires us to love Him, remember we are carnal minded, the carnal mind hates God , if we love God its because He caused us to love Him and He will cause us to follow Him and He will cause us to do all the things we do according to His will and purpose.
There is not one thing we do in our life that is not authorize and approved of by God, enjoy your journey but it’s a painful journey but never forget the glory that God will cloth each of us in, He is making sons and daughters of us.
Everything scripture tells us to do we should do but the problem I find is in the performance of doing what scripture tells me to do and the reason is I can do nothing on my own, if I do what scripture tells me to do its no longer I but Christ who does it, if I adhere to scripture on my own then I can boast, but God said no one can boast and Christ said I can do nothing on my own.
Gods grace does everything in us when God says it will. All this knowledge we learned from Ray should expose to us the beam in our own eye.
God bless. :)
Kat:
--- Quote from: Rick on September 23, 2015, 11:20:49 AM ---So we live our carnal physical lives being a god unto ourselves doing those things we wish to do, then through Divine inspiration God touches our heart and the spiritual journey begins.
My journey began in Christendom, I was excited about God and my relationship with Him, to me it was like a honeymoon I never wanted to end, then the time came where I was confronted with my sins, so I tried my best not to sin but the harder I tried not to sin the more I sinned.
I was operating under false doctrine and believe it was up to me to stop sinning under my own ability but I discovered I could not stop doing those things I enjoyed doing, so in time I left the church feeling hopelessly condemned and believed I was destine for hell.
Divine inspiration came to me again and back to church I went and this happen a number of times, and each time my sins turned me away from God.
--- End quote ---
Hi Rick, it seems to me what you are describing there is leaving your first love. Ray explains precisely how that happens in LOF 14. 'The Beast Within.'
http://bible-truths.com/lake14.html -----------------
How many understand our Lord’s statements in Luke 20:17-18?
"And He beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The Stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the Head of the corner? Whomsoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever It shall fall, It will GRIND HIM TO POWDER."
When we fall on the Stone (Jesus), we are broken. Or as John tells us in Revelation,
"And I saw one of his heads as it were WOUNDED TO DEATH…" (Rev. 13:3).
Yes, when we fall on Christ we are broken, we are wounded (by the "sword" of God—Rev. 13:14 vs. Heb. 4:12). This is our human attempt at salvation. But then we fall, and our "deadly wound [which we received by the Word of God] was healed" (Rev. 13:3), we went back into the world, back into Babylon, thus leaving our first love. When the wound of the Sword of God’s Word that had slain us, is healed, we fall from the love of God, and we again turn our love to the world from which we came.
But here’s the good news concerning this stone. If we are among the chosen that overcome, then the Stone falls ON US, and our spiritual house built upon the sand comes crashing down. And when Jesus falls on us, He GRINDS US [along with all of our idols of the heart] TO POWDER!
v
Paul wasn’t telling the unbelieving world that "ye are yet carnal." Nor was Jesus telling the world that they had "left the first love." No, Paul and Jesus are both telling THE CHURCH that they are "yet carnal and have left their first love"! In other words, AFTER coming into a church, AFTER they have accepted Christ, AFTER they have pursued their walk with God, AFTER they have built a spiritual house upon the sand, AFTER they have become indoctrinated with the commandments of men and the traditions of men, can one fall away and be in a position to actually spiritually SEE THE BEAST WITHIN! SEE the man of sin and the son of perdition. See your carnal-minded, God hating, SINS. You and I and all who have be enlightened by God’s word and our own failures in life, can surely see that we are all spiritually, WILD BEASTS.
v
THANK GOD, that I (L. Ray Smith) had fallen away, left my first love, looked back, forsook the Lord, and watched my house upon the sand come crashing down! Only then was I able to stand upon the sand of the sea, and see the beast within, the man of sin, the son of perdition, and Satan the devil who DECEIVED ME!
But NOW, "I am crucified WITH Christ: nevertheless I live: yet not I, but Christ lives IN ME: and the life which I now life in the flesh I live by the faith OF the Son of God, who loved ME [and YOU], and gave Himself for ME [and YOU]" (Gal. 2:20).
In conclusion:
"I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard BEHIND me a great voice, as of a trumpet… And I turned to see the voice that spoke with ME. And being TURNED, I saw seven gold candlesticks; [the complete church of God in all generations, with MY sins outlined in each and every one of them] And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
His head and His hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and His eyes were as a flame of fire; [PURGING all who look upon Him] And His feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned [refined] in a furnace; and His voice as the sound of many waters. And he had in His right hand seven stars: and out of His mouth went a sharp two-edged sword, and His countenance was as the SUN SHINING IN HIS STRENGTH [no longer a physical body with HOLES in it].
And when I saw Him [in my SPIRIT] I fell at His feet as DEAD. And He laid His right hand upon ME [as He will upon YOU], saying unto ME [and unto YOU],
FEAR NOT" (Rev. 1:10-17).
Truly: "We have seen the enemy and he is US."
v
BEFORE THE DAY OF THE LORD CAN COME TO YOU
Here then is what must be accomplished in your life before you die:
"Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness, and the work of faith with power: THAT the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be GLORIFIED IN YOU [IN YOU], and YE IN HIM, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ" (II Thes. 1:11-12)!!
How then does our Apostle Paul tell us this MUST be accomplished? What must happen? What must we do? Or rather what must Jesus do IN US? Here is the Scriptural answer:
"Now we beseech YOU, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him.
That ye be not soon shaken in mind or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that THE DAY OF CHRIST [The Day of the Lord] is at hand [FOR YOU...].
Let no man deceive YOU by any means: for that day shall not come [TO YOU…] except there come a FALLING AWAY FIRST [BY YOU…], and the man of sin be revealed the son of perdition [IN YOU…TO YOU…]; Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped [IN YOU…]; so that he as God sits in the temple of God [‘which temple YE ARE’ II Cor. 6:16] showing himself that HE IS [YOU ARE / I AM] a god
Remember ye not, that when I was yet with YOU, I told YOU these things?
And now ye know what withholds [is restraining, is detaining—‘the falling away FIRST’] that he [‘the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition’—YOU…] might be revealed in his time [in YOU and TO YOU—individually, not collectively] in his time [‘his {particular} time’]—FOR YOU and FOR ME and for ALL BELIEVERS IN ALL GENERATIONS UNTIL JESUS COMES TO US ALL, COLLECTIVELY, AS THE MANIFEST SONS OF GOD]."
Long before Jesus can have a COMPANY of manifest SONS and DAUGHTERS of God, there has to be individual begettals by the Holy Spirit of God in chosen individuals in every generation leading up to the coming of the Lord at the end of this age.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff:
Kat,
Given the time I've spent reading Ray's teaching, I know there is still a gap in n my understanding.
I feel a certain amount of shame or failure in asking this, as I should be further along in my understanding, but could you simplify what you wrote?
I'm not sure I understood what you were getting at and I'd really like to know.
Please help me understand.
Peace
Jeff
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