Matthew 24:9

[Miranda_78]

"Then they will hand you over to those who will torture and kill you. All nations will hate you because you are committed to me.

In the English standard it says,
"And you will be hated by all men for my names' sake. "

Can anyone explain please if this is what will happen to us as followers of the Lord? Will this take place in America? Is Jesus talking about those living in Much dangerous areas in the world like, the middle east?
I can honestly say, this verse is very similar to what I am experiencing in my life for living in Christ. We might not have it that badly here in the States but, i sure feel like i am dying of affliction because of persecution. There is another verse about" abomination, of desolation" that I do not understand. If we will be hated would that mean we will be suffering desolation in our life?

[rickylittleton]

One of the things we must realize is the location and cultural theme at the time Jesus said these words. In one statement, he told his followers,"when you see the abomination of desolation stand in the holy place, ye which are in 'Judea'....." WE can understand the spiritual aspects of His teaching, but one problem is the many false prophets, and doom's day preachers have every thing targeted here just for the United States, and no where else. Many of you who like to read on Youtube have notice how they are teaching that the :great tribulation will start on this day, the 23 of September! I can assure you, according how Ray has taught us, there is not such phrase as,"The great tribulation". The bible also said that day will come upon then as travel upon a women! Jesus even said that men heart's will fail them for fear of looking forth to those things. Tim

[Miranda_78]

Really? I did not know of such videos on YouTube.... neither of an event on September 23, (only of the world ending event on 2012 of May.) neither of anyone saying, America being the only target...

Im very aware there is no great tribulation event as Ray has taught, according to scripture. Although there is still persecution happening in the states and anyone can be put to death just like anywhere else and because of faith in Jesus we will have to face the hatred, and animosity of the world therefore some even of old,have faced desolation. so that was what I wanted to know, was having to face it in your lifetime. Thank you for the clarification.
God bless.

[Kat]

"Then they will hand you over to those who will torture and kill you. All nations will hate you because you are committed to me.

In the English standard it says,
"And you will be hated by all men for my names' sake. "

Can anyone explain please if this is what will happen to us as followers of the Lord? Will this take place in America? Is Jesus talking about those living in Much dangerous areas in the world like, the middle east?
I can honestly say, this verse is very similar to what I am experiencing in my life for living in Christ. We might not have it that badly here in the States but, i sure feel like i am dying of affliction because of persecution. There is another verse about" abomination, of desolation" that I do not understand. If we will be hated would that mean we will be suffering desolation in our life?

Hi Miranda,

It is true in that first century all of the Apostles, accept John, were martyred/killed and no doubt many others as well. To your question "Can anyone explain please if this is what will happen to us as followers of the Lord?" I feel that the Apostles had a special mission, they lived with Christ/God for 3 1/2 yrs, learning from Him all that time, this must have given them incredible confidence in Him and great fortitude in doing the work He gave to them. They were to start and set up Christ's church, they were the beginning of the body. As I said they all, but one, died doing this mission... but it certainly accomplished it's goal, the body is still enduring to this day.

It appears to me, that now the death we must die is a "dying to self" type of martyrdom. As you said, "I can honestly say, this verse is very similar to what I am experiencing in my life for living in Christ."

Rom 8:36  As it is written, "For Your sake we are killed all the day long. We are counted as sheep of slaughter."

1Cor 15:31  Every day do I die, by the glorying of you that I have in Christ Jesus our Lord:

2Cor 4:10  always carrying about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body.
v. 11  For we who live are always delivered to death for Jesus' sake, that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh.

But Dave has it right about 'hell' being the most abominable teaching of all. Here is excerpts from article 16 C.  'Hell: The Origin of Endless Punishment' Ray explains quite a bit about this abomination we had learned and all those in church down through the centuries as well.

http://bible-truths.com/lake16-C.html ------------------

If you still have any doubts—ANY, that the Christian Church is steeped in sex and fertility worship, and rank paganism, then check into the "Sheila-na-gigs" of Christianity during the middle ages.

Sheila-na-gigs are so lewd, so pornographic, and utterly disgusting, that you can no longer even find the word Sheila-na-gig in most English Dictionaries. They are a part of Christianity's recent past, that church historians and theologians would rather you never, ever find out about.

These statues, carvings, idols and images of Sheila-na-gigs are no mere "golden calves" worshipped by Egypt and Israel. Nor are they mere pictures and statutes of the pagan Greek god Zues, fraudulently said to be pictures of a long-haired Christ. If you think that "the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION spoken of by Daniel standing in the holy place" (Matt. 24:15,) was something horrible, wait till you learn what these Sheila-na-gigs standing in the holy places of the Christian Churches of Northwestern Europe and Britain were all about.
v
God has sternly warned:
"Take heed to yourself that you be not snared by following them [the pagan nations], after that they be destroyed from before you: and that you enquire NOT after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? EVEN SO WILL I DO LIKEWISE" (Deut. 12:30.)

And just why does God say they should NOT do such a thing? Here's why:

"Thou shall NOT do so unto the Lord your God: for [here comes the REAL reason from God's Own mouth...] EVER ABOMINATION to the Lord, which He HATES, have they done unto their gods, for even their sons and their daughters they have BURNT IN THE FIRE TO THEIR GODS" (Deut. 12:31.)

But SURELY the world of Christendom today would never, ever, ever have such an "ABOMINATION... which God HATES," in their arsenal of foundational, bedrock, fundamental doctrines, would they? Maybe it is time that we grow up and get our heads out of the sand. OF COURSE Christendom has these abominations which God hates in their most basic and necessary doctrines, but with one difference. They have taken this doctrine of the Canaanites burning their sons and daughters in fire to their gods to a level of total insanity.

What are we clearly told by Paul concerning the apostasized church of our day?
Paul said:

"...evil men and imposters seducers [Gk: 'imposters'] shall wax [grow] worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived" (II Tim. 3:13.)

These are those which Paul says:

"...shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables" (II Tim. 4:2-4.)

One cannot turn away from the truth, unless they once had the truth. This is speaking of the Church. But how has today's Church gotten worse and worse than burning their sons and daughter in fire? By teaching that their sons and daughters will not be burned up in fire, as the Canaanites did, but by teaching that their sons and daughters will BURN IN FIRE FOR EVER! Here is but one proof of such "damnable heresy" (II Pet. 2:1)
v
Read the following quotation from Thayer's Paper, and weep:

"'The condemnation of the CHILDREN dying without having been baptized," says the Catholic Bossuet, "is an article of firm faith of the church. They are guilty, since they die in the wrath of God, and in the powers of darkness.. Children of wrath by nature, objects of HATRED AND AVERSION, CAST DOWN TO HELL with the OTHER DAMNED, they remain there EVERLASTINGLY subject to the HORRIBLE VENGEANCE OF THE DEVIL.' Thus the learned Denis Peteau has decided, as well as the most eminent Bellarmin, the Council of Lyons, the Council of Florence, and the Council of Trent."

Whereas Calvin himself calls this damning of the children "a horrible decree," modern follower of Calvinism, Dr. James Kennedy, has euphemized Calvin's "horrible decree" down to "Hell is FAIR." I am not sure how any modern followers of Calvin can euphemize his burning of Christian believers at the stake. What hideously evil men John Calvin and Martin Luther were.

And Christians by the thousands ask who I think I am that I should be judging such prominent theologians? I don't judge them, I just expose their damnable heresies as I have just done one more time.
v
"And the woman [always the symbol for a church/kirke] was arrayed in purple and scarlet color [these colors symbolize wealth and high position], and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication" (Rev. 17:4.)

What else are we told is in the golden cup of this church?

"...the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication" (Ver. 2.)

But there is something else. Remember that Brown above also mention drugs along with wine. Is our lady church of Revelation 17:4-5 "MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH" also involved in DRUGS?

In the following chapter, we have described the fall of this Babylonian Church System. Notice what Rev. 18:23 lists among her many abominations:

"...for the merchants were the great men of the earth; for by your sorceries were all nations deceived."
Just what are these "sorceries?"

The Greek word translated "sorceries" in this verse is pharmakeia. Dr. Strong's first definition of this word is, "medicine." Our words "pharmacy" and "pharmaceutical" (DRUGS) are derived from this word. This harlot church peddles spiritual DRUGS to the world! And so, clearly this pagan goddess Kirke not only stamps Christian religions of the world with her name: "Kirke, Kirche, Church," but also she is the Mystery Babylonian Harlot Church of Rev. 17 and 18. This Church has committed spiritual fornication among the leaders of the world, and has caused the inhabitants of the world to be made drunk and drugged by the contents of her golden cup.
v
The bedrock foundation of Christian doctrine comes out of Egypt by way of Greece, Rome, the Roman Church, and perverted bible translations into the homes of billions of unsuspecting Christians.

In a nutshell: Did God teach Moses or any patriarch or prophets of the Old Testament this Egyptian heresy of everlasting punishment? NO. Does the whole orthodox Christian Church teach this damnable heresy throughout the world? YES. I rest my case. I could close with this and go onto the next Installment.

The most sickening of all heresies and religious teachings in the entire world is the Christian doctrine of ENDLESS TORMENT. And this unscriptural doctrine came from the "FOOLISH DECEIVED AND PERVERSE MEN [OF EGYPT] WHO ERR IN EVERYTHING AS DRUNKEN MEN STAGGERING IN THEIR OWN VOMIT"! (Isaiah 19:11-14.)

Nevertheless, let it be known from the Scriptures, that as vile, wicked, and disgraceful the ways of the Egyptians were, God will yet have mercy upon them. Just like wicked Jerusalem and even Sodom (Ezek. 16:55,) Egypt will be SAVED. After God "smites and heals" Egypt [in JUDGMENT], and "sends them a Saviour" (Isa. 19:20 & 22,) He will save them:

"Whom the Lord of hosts shall bless, saying, BLESSED BE EGYPT MY PEOPLE, and Assyria, the work of my hands, and Israel [albeit Israel will be 'the third, not the first of these three, Ver.24] mine inheritance" (Isa. 19:25.)

How pray tell, does "BLESSED be Egypt MY people" fit into the damnable Christian doctrine from Egypt who is, as we speak, burning in an eternal hellhole of fire?

When will we open our eyes to God's Truths on these matters?

SO WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?

It means that virtually everything about Christendom—from its name 'Church,' to the architecture of their buildings, to the origin of their holy days and doctrines, is all straight out of heathenism, of which God Almighty declares:

"LEARN NOT THE WAY OF THE HEATHEN... inquire NOT after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? Even so WILL I DO LIKEWISE" (Jer. 10:2 & Deut. 12:30.)
v
Let me let you in on a little Scriptural Secret. I say secret, because not one in a hundred thousand knows the truth of this. Here's the secret: No one in the history of humanity has ever died and gone to heaven. This is but another of the Pagan myths of Christendom. And furthermore, no orthodox Christian ever will die in the future and go to heaven. Neither will any of them be in the first resurrection, unless and until they bitterly repent of their association with:

"MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH (Rev. 17:5)

The only way INTO the First Resurrection is to:

"Come OUT OF HER, My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues" (Rev. 18:4.)
v
May God grant you the faith and courage to trust Him that He might give you "the love of the truth that you might be saved" (II Thes. 2:10,)
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mercy, peace and love
Kat

[John from Kentucky]

Historically, the Abomination of Desolation was when Jerusalem and the Temple was surrounded by armies, and the worship in the Temple ceased because of its destruction or the setting up of idols in the Holy of Holys.  This occurred under the Babylonians, the Greeks under Antiochus, and the Romans under Titus.

Spiritually, the Abomination of Desolation, is when the Beast within us rules in the Temple of our hearts, using its supposed free will to decide false religious doctrines (one of which is belief in hell), under the influence of Satan.

We are only freed when Jesus enters our hearts and slays the Beast and teaches us we have no free will.  Then we know that the Sovereign God rules in all things, not our free will.

Then and only then does Jesus rule in the Temple of our hearts, and we are free from all false teachings.

[Rene]

Dennis posted a thread today with a link to Ray expressing why teaching is not allowed on this forum.  Due to comments made in this thread about the meaning of "Abomination of Desolation", I am going to repost the link here:

Why no teaching on this forum in Ray's words:

Please listen to this: http://bible-truths.com/video/NoTeaching.mp4

[Kat]

After Dennis' warning there about teaching, I decided to do a search on 'the Abomination of Desolation' to find out exactly what Ray said on this. I can find nowhere that Ray spoke directly about this.

So the thing is we have to be careful when posting our opinions and info we find on internet searches as though it is a statement of fact or truth... there are opinions aplenty, maybe even seems informative, but not necessarily truth. How many times have we believed something and come to find out it was not the way we thought it to be?

Too many people are reading on here and may take any comment to heart and if it turns out not to be true, we may have caused a stumbling block for them in some way. Just a reminder.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Dennis Vogel]

"Then they will hand you over to those who will torture and kill you. All nations will hate you because you are committed to me.

In the English standard it says,
"And you will be hated by all men for my names' sake. "

Can anyone explain please if this is what will happen to us as followers of the Lord? Will this take place in America? Is Jesus talking about those living in Much dangerous areas in the world like, the middle east?
I can honestly say, this verse is very similar to what I am experiencing in my life for living in Christ. We might not have it that badly here in the States but, i sure feel like i am dying of affliction because of persecution. There is another verse about" abomination, of desolation" that I do not understand. If we will be hated would that mean we will be suffering desolation in our life?

Php 1:16  The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:
Php 1:17  But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.

Php 1:18  What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

So, IMO Christians will be persecuted. That includes us but not exclusively us.

[Miranda_78]

I was not teaching. I apologize if it sounded like I was, my question had to do more of misunderstanding about persecution, and desolation in one's own life. Thank you all.

[Rene]

I was not teaching. I apologize if it sounded like I was, my question had to do more of misunderstanding about persecution, and desolation in one's own life. Thank you all.

Miranda, it wasn't something that you said that prompted my reply regarding "No Teaching."  It had to do with comments made about the meaning of the phrase "Abomination of Desolation" in scripture.  I have edited my original comments to be more clear.

René

[Jeff]

Many countries are unsafe for believers in Christ.  We don't experience that as much here in the US but in the Middle East, Africa, and Far East there's a lot of persecution for those believing in the Scriptures. Christ is familiar to us here, but so many religions don't see Him as He truly is, and they find it offensive, to the point of execution, for those who worship Him. It's hard to imagine in the 21st century, but the fact remains that a believer in Christ, is often derided no matter their location.  Secularism, hedonism, and humanism are rampant in the West, and fanatical, fundamental, extremism in the East. As Ray so often pointed out, and we all well know, the Truth isn't well received here in this supposedly believing country, not to mention the people closest to us.  Until God pours out His Spirit, persecution is something everyone in the body will experience.