Now here is the point I want to make, spirit is life and life is spirit. Now back to verse 15.
Can we lose out… well we read the Scripture that if you sin willfully - willingly there is no more sacrifice for you. Now look at this verse, many people probably never really saw it before.
1 John 3:15 Whosoever hates his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal (eonian or age lasting) life abiding (the Greek is “staying or “REMAINING”) in him.
So the Greek is staying or remaining. Now if you just read that without all the background that I’m giving you, then you get the feeling that, well he won't be given God’s abiding life. No, he already has it. The only way something cannot stay in you or not remain in you, is if it’s in you. Do you follow that? It’s in you.
Hi Alex, here is the Scripture you are focus on here, now here is an interesting comment Christ made.
John 15:5 `I am the vine, ye the branches; he who is remaining in Me, and I in him, this one doth bear much fruit, because apart from Me ye are not able to do anything;
v. 6
if any one may not remain in Me, he was cast forth without as the branch, and was withered, and they gather them, and cast to fire, and they are burned; (Young's)
I have often thought that the parable of the Sower and the seed could be speaking of those who have their eyes opened (receive the Holy Spirit?), but do not endure to the end. So as you wonder can a person loose the Holy Spirit, this does seem like it could apply to some of those in this parable.
Matt 13:18 "Therefore hear the parable of the sower:
v. 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside.
I can see how this verse 19 is speaking of the church in general.
Mat 13:20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy;
Mat 13:21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.
Now look how so many embrace these truths initially, but cannot endure at all... did they receive the Spirit?
Mat 13:22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful.
Maybe a religious hobbyist? We've had a few people come through here that really embraced "the word" of truth, but didn't last too long, not here anyway.
Mat 13:23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty."
So I'm wondering if there are those who have the Holy Spirit and their eyes are opened, but obviously were not elected or chosen to endure to the end, it was just a temporary thing. I do not see this as the "first love" thing though, because in Hebrews, it does say specifically that when a person is actually enlightened, "partakers" of the Holy Spirit and then "falls away"... it's for good, in this life anyway.
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those
who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have
become partakers (
G3353- participant, that is, a sharer; by implication an associate: - fellow, partaker, partner)
of the Holy Spirit,
v. 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
v. 6
if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
v. 7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God;
v. 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed,
whose end is to be burned.
Now a second witness is what Paul said that he was not so arrogant as to suppose he could not fall away.
1Co 9:26 Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. Thus I fight: not as one who beats the air.
v. 27 But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified. (NKJV)
Easy to read version
1Co 9:26 So I run like someone who has a goal. I fight like a boxer who is hitting something, not just the air.
v. 27 It is my own body I fight to make it do what I want. I do this so that I won't miss getting the prize myself after telling others about it.
So obviously there are those that do not endure to the end in this life, or there would be no need for the warning about not enduring.
Rev 17:14 These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful."
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Now there are many who assume that they have the Holy Spirit, the whole church, but actually never have... and there are the 'tares' as well, that I don't think ever actually have the Holy Spirit, because they remain with the elect (Matt 13:28-29). So there is a lot to think about, and a person certainly should not be complacent about there situation of understanding truth, that's for sure.
But even for the elect it is a long process with much ups and downs, and I really don't think that the Holy Spirit indwelling is so obvious... Scripture says you will know the Spirit is indwelling, by their fruit.
Matt 7:16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
v. 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
There is also much comfort in Christ's words.
John 10:27 according as I said to you: My sheep My voice do hear, and I know them, and they follow Me,
v. 28 and life age-during I give to them, and they shall not perish--to the age, and no one shall pluck them out of My hand;
v. 29 My Father, who hath given to Me, is greater than all, and no one is able to pluck out of the hand of My Father;
v. 30 I and the Father are one.' (Young's)
mercy, peace and love
Kat