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God's Love
Jeff:
I recently re-read Ray's paper on "Why does God Love You" and this quote is something that I've been trying to work through, and understand in a way that will help me to be more obedient.
"However, when sinning becomes a way of life, and the sins are of a certain magnitude and grossness, God hates the sinner as well as his sins."
I've always thanked God for loving me until I read this. I had to consider that there may be times when God doesn't love me. However, just today I was reminded of this caveat "...when sin becomes a way of life..." so this may not be relevant to those who frequently visit the forum, but we all do sin to a degree, that we'd probably rather not.
I have this idea that the most important kind of human love is a verb-tense. I believe that God's love is far beyond this, but we have our limitations.
If we are "lov-ing" someone it becomes an action. It's more than a feeling - we are actively doing something for someone else, that is rooted in love. Praying for someone is loving them, letting a car merge in front of you is an act of kindness, which is love, telling your significant other that you are so grateful that they're a part of your life - making your children feel that they matter in this world and in God's master plan - these are all acts of love. A "feeling" of love for another, benefits us, more than them, unless it's turned into an "act".
So where am I going with this?
It seems to me that God is ALWAYS lov-ing His children, simply because of His plan for our salvation - for the salvation of mankind. He is always lov-ing us because He brings trials into our lives that bring us closer to Him, He's loving us when He chooses to divert us from something that would ultimately keep us from growing into someone who can be a part of His family.
Ephesians 3:11 "According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.
13 Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.
14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,..."
cheekie3:
Jeff -
I understand God's Hate like this:
God's Hate must be part of His overwhelming Love; as above all else, God is Love.
When God Hates, it is not in the same realm as when mankind hates (and usually desires revenge or justice).
When God Hates, He has His Plan of correction for those in rebellion against His Holy Laws, and this is part of His Love.
When we know we do wrong (i.e. sin), most of us hate ourselves for it - and wished we never did that particular sin.
I hope this helps a little.
In His Understanding and Wisdom.
George.
Extol:
I listened to Ray's Love teaching today, and I agree with what you said, George, that God's hate is a part of his love...as contradictory as that may sound.
Ray said when God has aversion or hostility for something, it just means he's going to punish it and clean it up. He doesn't hate like we hate, because he doesn't have a carnal mind. He's still fully in control of his emotions--unlike us--when he is talking about his wrath and vengeance.
It was an eye opener for me when I learned God hates sinners, but as we know, it is not forever. Thank God for that. :)
lilitalienboi16:
Good words George and Jesse. I might add, I once read by Alexander Thomson, that the KJV fails to make reference to the english word "Abhor" and that this word for God's hatred is better translated as "Abhor." God abhorred Esau, He abhors the sinners who delight in their sinful ways. Irregardless of its exact meaning, whether you prefer hate or abhor, the end result is the same. As Jesse said, and I believe ray before him, "He's going to punish it and then clean it up!" Amen.
God bless,
Alex
Kat:
--- Quote from: Jeff on October 30, 2015, 06:51:59 PM ---I recently re-read Ray's paper on "Why does God Love You" and this quote is something that I've been trying to work through, and understand in a way that will help me to be more obedient.
"However, when sinning becomes a way of life, and the sins are of a certain magnitude and grossness, God hates the sinner as well as his sins."
--- End quote ---
Hi Jeff, God has made the human race filled with a great diversity of people/vessels, with some having a degree of righteous and to the other extreme are those steeped in wickedness.
2Tim 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor.
So with this in mind that there are people of greatly differing characters, we see that God tells us in many Scripture that He loves righteousness and the good in mankind.
Psa 11:7 For the LORD is righteous, He loves righteousness; His countenance beholds the upright.
Jer 9:24 If any want to boast, they should boast that they know and understand Me, because My love is constant, and I do what is just and right. These are the things that please Me. I, the LORD, have spoken." (GNB)
Psa 37:23 The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD, And He delights in his way.
God makes it clear what He thinks is good and righteous and gives us commandments and instructs us many times in what/how to please Him. Also He certainly expresses His love towards those who obey and please Him.
2Thess 2:16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace,
Rom 8:37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma.
1John 4:10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
v. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
1John 4:19 We love Him because He first loved us.
So just as He has shown in Scripture what He loves/delights/pleases Him... He also lets us know the counterpoint in no uncertain terms, what is an abomination to Him and many Scripture tells us what He abhors/hates.
Pro 11:19 As righteousness leads to life, So he who pursues evil pursues it to his own death.
v. 20 Those who are of a perverse heart are an abomination to the LORD, But the blameless in their ways are His delight. (NKJV)
Psa 5:5 The boastful shall not stand in Your sight; You hate all workers of iniquity.
Psa 11:5 The LORD tests the righteous, But the wicked and the one who loves violence His soul hates.
Lev 20:23 And you shall not walk in the statutes of the nation which I am casting out before you; for they commit all these things, and therefore I abhor them.
Pro 6:16 These six things the LORD hates, Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
v. 17 A proud look, A lying tongue, Hands that shed innocent blood,
v. 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that are swift in running to evil,
v. 19 A false witness who speaks lies, And one who sows discord among brethren.
Pro 15:9 The way of the wicked is an abomination to the LORD, But He loves him who follows righteousness.
Zec 8:17 Let none of you think evil in your heart against your neighbor; And do not love a false oath. For all these are things that I hate,' Says the LORD."
Psa 9:15 The heathen have dug a pit and fallen in; they have been caught in their own trap.
v. 16 The LORD has revealed Himself by His righteous judgments, and the wicked are trapped by their own deeds. (GNB)
So here we see that God says that the people that commit, as Ray put it "sins that are of a certain magnitude and grossness, God hates the sinner as well as his sins." A saying I remember from my church days was something like, 'hate the sins, but not the sinner.' But how?
I mean isn't it clear that you cannot separate a person from his words and actions? I believe that a person IS what he thinks, says, does "for as he thinks in his heart, so is he" (Pro 23:7). A person's character traits is the sum of what that person is, character- the mental and moral qualities distinctive to an individual. What a person thinks/believes and acts on these ideas determines who they are... hate and love is very much a part of this in a person.
When God has spoken in many Scripture and expressed He clearly hates people because of the evil that they commit, this shows His absolute disapproval and condemnation of what THEY do, not just the action itself. The action of itself has no morality or capability to even exist without the doer of it, it's the 'person' that commits the deed and that's why THEY will be held accountable.
So that is the way I look at this, maybe it will give you a little more to think about.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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