> General Discussions
"So - Is there any difference?"
arion:
--- Quote from: Doug on December 06, 2015, 07:29:24 AM ---Hi Arion,
I understand what you are saying and think you make very good points to consider. However, I do not see how you can compare insurance, stocks, gold, bank accounts, doctors etc. to the use of guns.
--- End quote ---
Doug;
I was really comparing a gun, axe, chain saw, knife, crowbar, socket wrench and screw driver being tools all of which can be used for positive purposes or negative. The part about the firearm along with insurance, ect as people were making the point that if you had a firearm that you were not trusting in God's provision but instead trusting in the firearm. The point I was making with that is if by owning a firearm is evidence of not trusting in God's provision then someone having insurance, savings, ect could also be compared with not trusting God and trying to do for yourself.
All of these things are heart issues. I could hear about the terrorist attack in California and out of fear go and buy a gun. I could also keep cash, store food, have investments also out of fear of poverty. In these ways I would not be trusting in God's provision. And yet someone else could have all of these things and not be trusting in any of them. What would be key for me is asking myself if anything I own gives me peace of mind. If having a gun in the closet gives me peace than that right there is evidence of not trusting in God.
As I stated previously with my life experiences and where I live a guy walking into the diner with a revolver on his hip wouldn't even warrant notice whereas in many areas of the country they would be running out of the restaurant in fear and the cops would have you on your face on the cement. To me it's a tool like a hammer or screwdriver. To you it was an instrument of murder and you felt that you had to sell yours. My conscience is clean and yours is as well. This will be my last comment on the issue. These are one of those things that nobody is going to change anyone else's mind and we probably shouldn't try.
God bless!!
lilitalienboi16:
Hello Arion,
I said I would no longer comment on this issue but I feel there is some confusion taking place that needs to be pointed out.
I am of the same mindset as Doug.
Surprised with the comparison.
A doctor attempts to heal while killing a person in self defense does harm to another which we are told by God not to do.
Seeing a doctor, having insurance, etc... to me is more like 'tempt not the Lord (Luke 4:15, Matt. 4:7).' When you're really sick but refuse to see a doctor because 'God will heal me' then I see it as tempting Him. Yes God can and may 'heal you' but you don't know how He will so go to the doctor and don't tempt Him!
Owning a fire arm is not the problem just like owning a screw driver is not the problem. Killing animals for food , that too is not the problem, its doing harm to another man, your neighbor that is problematic if we are to try and follow after Christ.
" That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" (Phil 2:15).
God be with you,
Alex
Edit: Changed my post a bit to reflect better my intent.
indianabob:
Hello again folks,
No argument for or against other opinions. Just a true story...
I began to have a serious interest in obeying God in the 1960's while employed as a City Police Officer.
I worked patrol in a City of 10,000 close to Gary, Indiana and we had just about the normal amount of crime of various types. Of course I was armed.
When I finally decided to take the admonition to do no harm seriously I thought to perhaps continue my employment while carrying my .357 Magnum WITHOUT any ammo in the chambers. No one would know unless I was confronted in an exchange of gunfire and then the true facts would be obvious.
So what could I say then? Oh, sorry, I had just cleaned my revolver and forgot to reload it.
Well that idea wasn't going to fly so I had to find other work. It took a few months and I resigned and went to work for Prudential Life Insurance company. Some contrast, right?
The final point for me was that the other officers on the police force fully expected me to be able to use my revolver to protect them if the need arose. I certainly couldn't do that if my gun was empty. So even if I was willing to put my own life at risk and trust God to guide my destiny, it would have been wrong to lie to the other police officers by pretending that I was fully prepared both morally and practically to perform my duties according to my oath of office.
Finally, I am fully persuaded that had I taken a human life in the performance of my lawful duties, I would have been readily forgiven by God upon sincere repentance at some future date when my mind was clear on the fact that for me taking a life was an error. It was an error because God would have and was I believe already working with me toward that end result.
One other similar point I would offer for consideration.
It is not a sin for a human life to be taken by another human being. Not if God instructs that it be done.
It all depends upon the attitude of the person who takes that life. If we believe that it is sin then for us it is a sin and we should not have gone against our own conscience.
Of course for those on the forum this is all colored by the understanding that we have that God guides our destiny whether or not we are aware of His providence.
If any would like to clear up that last statement please do.
Indiana Bob
Kat:
Rom 12:2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
We should realize that we are among a VERY FEW who are being transformed into the spiritual image of the Savior Jesus Christ and in so being there is no place for human reasonings, we are to have the mind of Christ.
1Pe 2:21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:
v. 22 “Who committed no sin,
Nor was deceit found in His mouth”;
v. 23 who, when He was reviled, did not revile in return; when He suffered, He did not threaten, but committed Himself to Him who judges righteously;
There is only ONE Lord, ONE body, ONE faith, ONE truth, and ONE unity that we are being transformed into from our carnal worldly ways and ideas, into HIS way of a perfect bond of peace and love.
Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
v. 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
v. 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
v. 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
This truth is not open to our human reasoning, it is according to the Spirit and truth, and Christ gave us explicit directions that we have recorded for us to learn from.
John 6:63 “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
Joel:
Something that came to mind is this;
Back when God was dealing mainly with Israel, or the Jews, he expected them to follow the laws and regulations that he provided by Moses. Every man was to live at peace with his brother, fighting Israel's enemies as God so directed. There where some born in Israel that were spiritually enlightened, but most were not and rebelled against God's ways.
When salvation came through The Lord Jesus Christ, and he was rejected by the Jews, God turned to all men, or the Gentiles that had previously been rejected.
Today there are a few that can accept the spiritual laws that Jesus set forth in the New Testament, but in essence the vast majority of the Gentiles are blind to God's ways in the same manner as the Jews that Moses lead in his day.
The battle today is a spiritual battle, not fought with the carnal weapons and inventions of men.
Joel
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version