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Shall He find faith?
lareli:
--- Quote from: rosewhite on December 16, 2015, 02:54:21 PM ---If we accept that 'to break one of the commandments in the smallest degree is to break them all' then I have to say there really are very few True Christians about these days - and if I try to speak about a Bible truth
--- End quote ---
Is a true Christian someone who never breaks a commandment in the smallest degree? What is forgiveness for?
A Bible Truth is one thing but my opinion of a bible truth or my interpretation of prophecy is another thing. Sometimes I have to step back and sort out my thoughts/beliefs into what exactly is a 'bible truth' vs what is really just my opinion or interpretation about a bible truth.
Wittenberg:
For full disclosure, I'm sorting out a lot on how to view myself and others, it's a work in progress. As of now I view myself as being born of the Spirit, having a heavenly father and an earthly mother. When my flesh sins, it's not me, it's the old Adam me. The born again me is incorruptable. When I die, the Adam in me will not be raised from the dead, only the born again me. On judgement day, the born again me will be sinless, since it is unable to sin. God may be preparing me to be an overcomer, He may not be. Either way, it will be according to His will. For those that don't know Him, they will, their walk with Him will be just as deep and meaningfull as my walk will be. He will be our God and we will be His people! It matters nothing where people are at now, God has said "every knee will bow". So they will. There is no pride or fear in anything, only hope and expectation in His promises.
Before Christ we were dead in our transgressions, we have been made alive. Soon, the rest of humanity will be too.
Kat:
Hi Wittenberg, here are a few emails that may help you sort things out.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,4132.0.html --------------------
no one is literally "born again," in this lifetime. While it is true that we will be "born" of God in the Resurrection (which doctrine is completely useless and unnecessary if Christians go to heaven at death), however while still in the flesh, we are "begotten" of God through His Holy Spirit. The problem of understanding this arises partly because theologians do not explain to their followers that the words "begotten" and "born" have but ONE Greek word to represent both. When we are truly "born" of God, Jesus said that we will be POWERFUL AND INVISIBLE "like the wind."
v
Yes, Jesus was resurrected, we are NOT resurrected from being literally, physically dead, neither do we as yet have a "spiritual body"--I Cor. 15:44-50. We symbolically and spiritually died to the "old man of sin." And next notice HOW we are resurrected: "AS Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also [also....WHAT?] should walk in NEWNESS OF LIFE" (Rom. 6:4). Not in NEWNESS OF A NEW SPIRITUAL BODY.
Continuing: "For if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death [pictured by baptism], we SHALL [that's future tense, not past tense] BE also in the likeness of His resurrection" (Verse 5). And when will that be? When WE are resurrected FROM THE DEATH with a new SPIRITUAL BODY.
v
We are "begotten anew from above," but we are not literally born again, as we are not yet powerful and invisible like "the WIND." Neither are you "saved" in the past tense. See my paper "YOU FOOLS! YOU HYPOCRITES! YOU SNAKES!" where I discuss the "sinner's prayer" near the end and how that no Scriptures says that we are "saved" already in the past tense. This also happens when we are given a new spiritual body in our resurrection from the dead.
Here is the key word to all of these misunderstandings you are having. You are talking the words of Rom. 6 literally, whereas we know that they were inspired of Christ's Holy Spirit, and these words are "spirit" (John 6:63).
Notice verse 11, after Paul explains all that happens when we are spiritually baptized with Jesus, He then shows how these things apply to us: "Likewise [in like manner as Paul just explained the meaning of all these things in the previous verses]... LIKEWISE R-E-C-K-O-N you also yourselves to be DEAD INDEED TO SIN, but ALIVE unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 6:11). "Reckon" means to estimate, suppose, count" etc. something to BE what it is not YET fully comprehended or fully come to pass.
v
We will sin as long as we are living in our flesh and bones and blood bodies. Yes, we must repent: "FORGIVE us our debts...." (Matt. 6:12). We are to come to the place were sin "sin shall not have DOMINION over you" (Rom. 6:14), but "if we say we have NO SIN, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is NOT IN US...if we say that we have NOT SINNED, we make HIM A LIAR, AND HIS WORD IS NOT IN US" (I John 1:8-10).
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,1859.0.html ----------------
When all else fails read and believe the Scriptures:
"So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a SPIRITUAL BODY. There is a NATURAL body, and there is a SPIRITUAL body" (I Cor. 15:42-45)
When it says "spiritual" it does not mean "physical."
Now this I say, brethren, that FLESH AND BLOOD [that's natural; that's physical] CANNOT inherit the kingdom of God; neither does corruption inherit incorruption.
Whereas John 3:3 in the King James says "born again," it would better translated "begotten anew from above." In the Greek there is but one word for both "begotten and born." Only the context can separate the proper use. At present the Elect Saints of God have only the "earnest" of our full spiritual birth into His Kingdom: "...ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of PROMISE [a promise of a future fulfilment] Which is the EARNEST of our inheritance UNTIL the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of His glory" (Eph. 1:13-14).
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2619.0.html ------------------
The Spirit of Christ is eternal, and when we have the Spirit of Christ we have eternal life in us. But....BUT,
we have only the "earnest" of that spirit, and it will not keep our physical bodies from dying. But when we have the earnest of God's spirit, it is proof that there is more to come: "In Whom you also trusted after that you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in Whom also after that you believed, you were SEALED WITH THAT HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE. Which is the EARNEST of our inheritance UNTIL [not now; not yet, but later] the redemption of the purchased POSSESSION, unto the praise of His glory" (Eph. 1:13-14).
And that takes place at the resurrection of the saints at the last trump. One more point: although we are promised "eonian" life, nonethless, the spirit that gives us "immortality," IS ETERNAL.
http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,96.0.html ----------------
Unfortunately, the Greek word translated "born" is also the same Greek word translated "begotten." Therefore it is sometimes difficult to know whether a verse means "begotten" or "born." The truth is that all of God's promises to and for us in this life are in "earnest or down payment" of what is to follow. We have God's spirit in earnest only; we have eonian life in earnest only; we have understanding and perception in earnest only. In the resurrection we will be, "like the wind," "LIKE HIM" (I John 3:2).
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,5854.0.html -------------------
No Believer is "perfect" and totally free from sin while he is still in this flesh. One needs to repent of their sins and be led by God's Holy Spirit into a life where one is no longer reigned over by sin. It doesn't mean that we are perfect and sinless. Even the Apostle John near the end of his ministry plainly stated:
1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jo 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jo 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
v
1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is BORN of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is BORN of God.
This is speaking of being "born" of God. No one is "born" of God until resurrection. In this life we are only "begotten." The words "born" and "begotten" come from the same Greek word. They didn't have two different words for the two different aspects of regeneration. Here is a Scripture that shows we have only a spiritual "begettal" in this life:
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of His glory.
Notice that we must wait "until" our full redemption is acquired. That happens in resurrection. Jesus taught that when we are actually "born" of the spirit (rather than just begotten), we will be "like the wind." None of us are "like the wind" in this life (John 3:6-8).
There are many Scriptures which speak of how we are to come out of sin, and stop sinning, even though we never achieve total perfection while we are in the flesh:
Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given Himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling savour.
Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whore monger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
Eph 5:9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
Eph 5:10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
Eph 5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
Eph 5:13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
Eph 5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
Eph 5:15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
Eph 5:16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
Eph 5:17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.
Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
Eph 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;
Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
God be with you,
Ray
Terry:
We can know if we are called and chosen, saints converted by God through the down payment of His Spirit as the promise of the future redemption to come. What we can't know....yet, is if we are the elect--Called, chosen, AND faithful.
thanks Alex, i can see what your'e saying.
Thanks Kat i see what your'e saying also,
v. 13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.
its hard for me to understand how one can see and understand and then turn back,i think thats saying turn back to the pagan beliefs,
I've tried to get my Mom to see and understand spiritual truths i want that for her so much and at times she will say i see this or that,[she 80 and in a nursing home, my brother is a preacher] and so the next time i see her everything we talked about is gone, i don't try anymore, I love her so much and i know she doesn't have much time left ,and the one thing i know would make her happier than anything would to know i went back to church and as much as i love her i can't do that, i can't even fake it for her, I love this change thats happening in me, i know i've said God is moving slow in me, but the truth is i know he is changing me,i've got a long way to go i know, and ask for the prayers of everyone who is lead to pray
Terry
Rhys 🕊:
--- Quote from: Terry on December 17, 2015, 08:41:47 AM ---
I've tried to get my Mom to see and understand spiritual truths i want that for her so much and at times she will say i see this or that,[she 80 and in a nursing home, my brother is a preacher] and so the next time i see her everything we talked about is gone, i don't try anymore, I love her so much and i know she doesn't have much time left ,and the one thing i know would make her happier than anything would to know i went back to church and as much as i love her i can't do that, i can't even fake it for her, I love this change thats happening in me, i know i've said God is moving slow in me, but the truth is i know he is changing me,i've got a long way to go i know, and ask for the prayers of everyone who is lead to pray
Terry
--- End quote ---
Is difficult to get other people to see when it's up to God. No one ever showed me what Ray taught. Only got there by sitting in church and feeling that does not seem right to me what they are saying. It's God's spirit telling me I need to go deeper so I seek after the truth. You can't do this on your own and it's God's work in you as He wills. It's good to do your best for others and give an answer when they ask but it's up to God what He reveals to each one.
Rhys
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