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Author Topic: BESIDES AN IDEA; A STRONG CONTINUOS FEELING  (Read 936 times)

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moshe

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BESIDES AN IDEA; A STRONG CONTINUOS FEELING
« on: December 19, 2015, 03:08:34 AM »

To get this post better, you should read the other one I just posted 'THE POWER OF IDEAS/THOUGHTS'



It's a beautiful thing when what we believe and the way we can talk about it actually matches with the way we live, however not many people can do these. There are too many hypocrites out there, plus the rest of us sinners.

God designed us in a way that our hearts say the last word to cause our behavior. So, what really drives human behavior is what is in our hearts, then what is in our heart goes to the more intellectual part of our mind and then, the rest is history.

For out of the heart are coming wicked reasonings, murders, adulteries, prostitutions, thefts, false testimonies, calumnies." (Mat. 15:19)

Just for the record. According to the Scriptures the 'heart' symbolizes
"a part of our psyche where we can find our deepest emotions, intentions, longings, thoughts and imaginations (even so these are not totally conscious) and moral sentiments. Here is what we value the most-our deepest selves. It is the central, most important and fundamental part of our mental processes."

Conclusion: We are mostly beautiful emotional organic machines, ruled by whatever is mostly storage in our hearts.

So I could talk with anyone about the illusion of free-will, make all my points, give him all the reasons in the most organized possible way and then he can still tell me with great confidence that he still FEELS that he has a free-will.
Either my speech on free-will becomes a seed that grows and affect his feelings and eventually his behavior, or it falls in the pavement and nothing grows --it's not up to me.

The belief of making free-choices is the biggest mental-idol of human kind, the most powerful idea that we will ever deal with. Because besides an idea is a continual strong feeling we where wired with. Because very frequently we get the impression or feeling that we act we no cause behind and that we are the main originators  and creators of our actions. 

Probably you already knew everything I have said so far and can be able to agree with me that the concept of free-will is erroneous. SO HERE IS A NEW QUESTION THAT MAY WORTH THE MILLIONS:

How do we get rid of this continuous feelings of free-will which are so powerful, even to influence our daily behavior in undesirable ways?  The answer is we can't, we where wired this way. Such continuous 'powerful Human Emotion of ownership of actions' can only be countered by another more powerful Emotion coming from another more powerful belief. We are talking about an emotional Counter punch! And the good news is that seems like Paul gave us all we need to know about this Emotional counter punch all over his letters.   

First, the belief that is more powerful (as well as logical) than ''free-will" is the belief in "the future 'salvation, purification, healing' of the human race" which put's God in top and we down to earth. The continuous belief on this truth and it's many consequences can be able to TRIGGER 'a stimulus intense enough' (I mean a strong Emotion) to replace whatever emotional state that this FEELINGS of free will are constantly arising. 

Once again, just for the record, free-will puts us in a position where we are little gods owning and creating whatever actions we want, this feelings make you act selfishly, which eventually will translate into you doing acts with different degrees of greed, envy, jealousy, hypocrisy and the rest that come with all of these (Like being anxious, angry and a combo size Ego).
And you know what, even when I know how this works and about the stupidity of free-will, I am still dealing with feelings of free-will on different degrees on a daily base. The lesser the degree the better for my spiritual well being.   

Knowing that eventually My God is going to heal and save everyone that I care for, everyone that had done good to me, everyone that has help on my spiritual development (specially my enemies) and everyone who has ever been born without even being asked for it (specially the ones who suffer constantly), makes me joyful. And this Joy is a very powerful emotion! No wonder why Paul order us over and over again to rejoice! Because this is the perfect Emotional counter punch!

Be rejoicing in the Lord ALWAYS! Again, I will declare, be rejoicing!" (Phil. 4:4)

Be rejoicing always.(1Tes. 5:16)

To rejoice always sounds like a continuous party, but sometimes it seems that even when knowing about all this beautiful Gods truths, my body just doesn't feel so joyful. Seems to me like Paul might be asking too much in here and I can see why this is SO IMPORTANT, it sounds great but in practice it's too hard.

No worries, Paul one of the greatest psychologist of all times give us the another two great weapons that will trigger a good amount of this pure JOY that we need to keep afloat. Next things he ask us to do is


Do not worry about anything
[True Joy takes away worries, it's not like we can suddenly freely-chose not to worry], but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God, (Phil. 4:6)

Pray WITHOUT CEASING. In EVERYTHING give thanks, for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus toward you.(1Th 5:18)

Petitions to God and being Grateful can give us enough Joy for a life time!

always, in every petition of mine for you all, making the petition WITH JOY (Phil. 1:4)

Asking things to God can make us so joyful because

If you should ever be requesting anything of Me in My name, this I will be doing." (John 14:14)

But of course, we must ask with a clean conscience and IN ACCORDING TO HIS WILL (knowing that whatever the outcome; these is God's will for us) and not selfish things. Does a boy gets happy when he ask something to his dad, when he knows that he is going to get it? Of curse... Does good dads like it when their kids ask them something reasonable that they want to give to them?

that if we should be requesting anything according to his will, He is hearing us. And if ever we are aware that He is hearing us, whatever we may be requesting, we are aware that we have the requests which we have requested from Him. (1Jn 5:15 )

Paul used to make petitions for others, and we can ask for good character traits, sometimes we can ask for things while hoping that we are asking for the right things... for beginners it's better to go first asking for the safest things (like humility and wisdom), but it's for sure that the more we do it right, the better we get at it.

how unceasingly I have remembrance concerning you in my petitions night and day
(2Tim. 1:3)

Seems like Paul had a lot of space on his mind to be asking petitions all day AND night, which means very frequently. I think Paul was a joyful man, a happy person. The other things that he ask from us is to be grateful. Gratefulness also make us joyful!

So, in everything we must give thanks, because EVERYTHING comes from God,

Rooted, and being built up, in him, and making yourselves sure in your faith, even as ye have been taught,—surpassing therein with thanksgiving (Col 2:7). 

Speaking to yourselves, with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs; singing, and striking the strings, with your heart unto the Lord; GIVING THANKS ALWAYS, FOR ALL THINGS, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, unto your God and Father (Eph 5:20)

Actually when we get what we asked for we get grateful and that make us Joyful, also it give us more trust in God and his plan. It's a very beautiful cycle which Paul knew the importance of it and that's why he firmly order us to follow it:

God give us faith and WE BELIEVE -- and because we believe WE ASK -- that builds momentum and we are already joyful -- then when we get what we asked for;that make us grateful and joyful, or when we are able to see that everything good in our lives comes from God we are also GRATEFUL and more JOYFUL -- this builds HOPE and trust to repeat the ever expanding cycle, and this is how our Faith grows, we ask with more confidence, we get more things, more joyful, more reasons to be grateful, more hope and trust, our faith grows... etc.     

Here is the simple cycle by Paul, once again and again:

I exhort, therefore, first of all, that there be made—supplications, prayers, intercessions, thankgivings, in behalf of all men (1Tim. 2:1)

In hope, rejoicing, in tribulation, enduring, in prayer, persevering (Rom 12:12  )

So this is the antidote that Paul give us over and over again to REPLACE all those very powerful feelings of free-will which are part of how we are wired. Once we go trough the cycle

...the peace of God, that is superior to every frame of mind [and any feeling of free-will], shall be garrisoning your hearts and your apprehensions in Christ Jesus." (Phil. 4:7)

Being Joyful is an attitude as well, it doesn't mean that we are all the time in an emotional high, is just that we are content all the time, and we have the peace of God in us.

Now, the God of the hope, fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that ye may surpass in the hope, in the power of Holy Spirit.
(Rom 15:13)

Paul got so good at producing Joy (in-house production) that he was even able to rejoice on his sufferings

Now, am I rejoicing in the sufferings on your behalf, and am filling up the things that lack of the tribulations of the Christ, in my flesh, in behalf of his body, which is the assembly (Col 1:24)
 
and then he also says

All joy deem it, my brethren, whenever you should be falling into various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith is producing endurance. (James 1:3)

Joy in tribulations, that's bold. However, I am starting to think that this may be the only way to be able to cup with such hard trials that life keep bringing on us. It seems like the further we go, the better it gets and the harder the trials. It kind of make sense to me, if you are in hard time the last thing you want is to drain your straight and give your self to inconvenient feelings of free-will.

be not grieved, for the joy of Yahweh is your strength.. (Nehemiah 8:10)


There are tons of more great scriptures about, Joy and making petitions and being grateful, but I think I have already make the point.

And If whatever we ask for falls into the next categories, I am sure we will get better on asking unselfish things to God:

For the rest, brethren,
whatsoever things are TRUE,                                                                                 
whatsoever things are DIGNIFIED,                                                                                       
whatsoever things are RIGHTEOUS,                                                                               
whatsoever things are CHASTE,                                                                                     
whatsoever things are LOVELY,                                                                                 
whatsoever things are of GOOD REPORT [HONORABLE],
if there be ANY VIRTUE, AND IF ANY PRAISE [ANYTHING ADMIRABLE], the same, be taking into account…     

and, the God of peace, shall be with you.
(Phil. 4:8)


While feelings of free-will lead us to be prideful and egocentric - feelings of Joy coming out of a pure heart lead us to be humble
and slowly develop the same mind that was on Jesus Christ.










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Extol

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Re: BESIDES AN IDEA; A STRONG CONTINUOS FEELING
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2015, 12:12:33 PM »

Be rejoicing in the Lord ALWAYS! Again, I will declare, be rejoicing!" (Phil. 4:4)

Be rejoicing always.(1Tes. 5:16)


To rejoice always sounds like a continuous party, but sometimes it seems that even when knowing about all this beautiful Gods truths, my body just doesn't feel so joyful. Seems to me like Paul might be asking too much in here and I can see why this is SO IMPORTANT, it sounds great but in practice it's too hard.

No worries, Paul one of the greatest psychologist of all times give us the another two great weapons that will trigger a good amount of this pure JOY that we need to keep afloat. Next things he ask us to do is


-------------------------------------------------------------

To rejoice always is, as you say, too hard. It also seems like a contradiction, when we read verses like this:

James 4:8 Draw near to God, and He will be drawing near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, double-souled! 9 Be wretched and mourn and lament. Let your laughter be converted into mourning, and joy into dejection. (CLNT)

Romans 12:15--Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep.


Ecc. 3:4--A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;


But I think the weeping and mourning are also causes to rejoice, because they can produce Godliness in us. We cry out with Paul "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" but there is joy knowing the answer: "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord!" We weep when we are afflicted, but God has good purposes for afflicting us, as the psalmist said:

Before I was afflicted I went astray: but now have I kept thy word.

It is good for me that I have been afflicted; that I might learn thy statutes.

I know, O LORD, that thy judgments are right, and that thou in faithfulness hast afflicted me.

Psalm 119: 67, 71, 75.


Ps. 126:5-6-- They that sow in tears shall reap in joy. He that goeth forth and weepeth, bearing precious seed, shall doubtless come again with rejoicing, bringing his sheaves with him.

2 Cor 7:10--For sorrow according to God is producing repentance for unregretted salvation...


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AwesomeSavior

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Re: BESIDES AN IDEA; A STRONG CONTINUOS FEELING
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2015, 02:41:38 PM »

The Lord started drawing me out of Babylon over the last 10 years. Prior to this, the closest realization that I had regarding no free will would have been my attempt to do some type of activity, the activity not happening, and then others would say something like, "It wasn't meant to be", and I would begrudging agree with their assessment.  ;)
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lareli

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Re: BESIDES AN IDEA; A STRONG CONTINUOS FEELING
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2015, 01:50:58 PM »

I don't know if I ever believed or 'felt' like I had free will.

I remember contemplating the matter on many occasions as a small child too. I remember specifically opening a drawer in the kitchen and picking up a fork... Pausing... And then grabbing one from the bottom of the drawer, and acknowledging that God knew I was going to do that.

I would do things like that often. I could be walking down a sidewalk and then pause, and take a side step and conclude that every step I took was ultimately controlled by God.

When I was a small child God was understood to me as GOD.. Everything! In control of EVERYTHING.

I also remember being maybe 5 years old and my dad was driving and he pointed out to me "that building over there, that's the jail where the bad people are" I thought about this concept of "bad people" and I prayed something like "God I pray that you save everyone and everyone gets to Heaven and if there are bad people, well I pray you turn them into good people so that they go to heaven too.."

Even as I would grow into an adult.. Through all the fire of all the trials that go with living this life.. Deep inside I've always known that God is in full control of ALL things. It wasn't until recently, though, that I could see and understand that it's been right there in the scriptures all along... And only recently have I been able to see the deception of the world.
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I’m just what you made God.. ~Kid Cudi

moshe

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Re: BESIDES AN IDEA; A STRONG CONTINUOS FEELING
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2015, 08:35:32 PM »

I don't know if I ever believed or 'felt' like I had free will.

I remember contemplating the matter on many occasions as a small child too. I remember specifically opening a drawer in the kitchen and picking up a fork... Pausing... And then grabbing one from the bottom of the drawer, and acknowledging that God knew I was going to do that.

I would do things like that often. I could be walking down a sidewalk and then pause, and take a side step and conclude that every step I took was ultimately controlled by God.

When I was a small child God was understood to me as GOD.. Everything! In control of EVERYTHING.

I also remember being maybe 5 years old and my dad was driving and he pointed out to me "that building over there, that's the jail where the bad people are" I thought about this concept of "bad people" and I prayed something like "God I pray that you save everyone and everyone gets to Heaven and if there are bad people, well I pray you turn them into good people so that they go to heaven too.."

Even as I would grow into an adult.. Through all the fire of all the trials that go with living this life.. Deep inside I've always known that God is in full control of ALL things. It wasn't until recently, though, that I could see and understand that it's been right there in the scriptures all along... And only recently have I been able to see the deception of the world.



Lake of fire series - part XIV:




THE MAN OF SIN IDENTIFIED

Paul gives us three revealing factors concerning the man of sin (II Thes. 2:4):

"Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped;
 
so that he as God sits in the temple of God
 
showing himself that he is God"
These three traits of the man of sin are not reserved for some one superhuman that comes on the scene at the end of the age. Every man in every generation since John and Paul first penned their prophecies, have manifested these three traits of "the man of sin." Well why then haven’t more people seen this man of sin through the ages and reported on him? For one thing, only those who leave their first love, who are called and chosen, and have had their house build upon the sand come crashing down, are able to see the man of sin—the BEAST within. And the other reason is that the man of sin and beast within are invisible, while the church world is always looking for the physical.

I have been teaching for a long time that the crime of "iniquity—LAWLESSNESS" of Matt. 7:23, is primarily the belief in one’s own sovereignty—commonly called "free will." Let’s look at these three identifying signs one at a time:

1. "Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped…"

And just how does every man do this? In what possible way does the average church-goer or man in the street actually do this? Why by his supposed, "free" will of course. According to Church teaching and most all teaching of all religions in the world, man has a "free" will that enables him to THWART the very will of God. He may not consciously feel or acknowledge that he has this power, but try and talk him out of it and see what happens.

If you or I or anyone can actually and factually THWART THE VERY WILL OF GOD, then we indeed can "…oppose and exalt ourselves above all that is called God, or that is worshipped…"

But this thing we call "free" will is an illusion, a phantom, an idol of the heart. It has no real existence other than in the minds of all those clinging to this form of iniquity. I will prove to everyone from the Scriptures in the pages to follow that this idol of "human free moral agency" called "free will" is the greatest single SIN that must be removed from our consciousness in order to be truly spiritually CONVERTED!

2. "…so that he as God, sits in the temple of God…"

Is this really speaking of some one superhuman future person who will literally and physically sit in a temple called "the temple of God" and declare to the world that HE IS THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE? Would ANYONE of normal intelligence be deceived by such an absurd boast? I think not! But this man of sin of which Paul speaks certainly has "…DECEIVED THE WHOLE WORLD…" (Rev. 12:9).

Jesus Christ has taught us that, "…the words that I speak unto you, they are SPIRIT…" (John 6:63). Why then would we conclude that the words that Paul spoke unto us are NOT SPIRIT? After all, Whose words did Paul speak, anyway? Answer:

"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words [what wholesome words? Whose wholesome words?], even THE WORDS OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST…" (I Tim. 6:3).

"ALL Scripture is given by inspiration of God…" (II Tim. 3:16)

The words of Paul that have become Scripture were inspired of God, and they were the same words as "…THE WORDS OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST…"

Now then, with this spiritual Truth in mind, why oh why would anyone be looking for a man of sin to be sitting in a LITERAL TEMPLE claiming himself to be God? No one man of sin sits in the temple of God claiming to be God, but ALL MEN EVERYWHERE AND IN ALL GENERATIONS have sat in the temple of God claiming themselves to be God!




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