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Author Topic: JUDGMENT BY FIRE  (Read 2467 times)

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« on: January 16, 2016, 12:27:17 PM »

This is from the LOF 3. 'Judgment by Fire Must Begin at the House of God.' Though it would be a good review. -----------------------------


Doesnít God judge non-believers with fire, but not believers? This only sounds strange to you if you have never been taught the Scriptures.

"Beloved, think it NOT STRANGE concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some STRANGE thing happened unto you" (I Pet. 4:12).

Peter makes it sound as though going through fiery trails is the norm rather than the exception. The New Testament is filled with the fiery trials of the Saints.

Now I hope that none will be offended at my next few statements, but if so, so be it. Unless God Almighty through the purging power of His FIERY SPIRIT, is BURNING OUT the lusts and passions and vanity and haughtiness and greed and self-righteousness and laziness and weakness and hypocrisy and wickedness and pride and materialism and cynicism and depravity and carnality in your life, then Jesus Christ is not choosing you to reign with Him as the Sons of God in the Kingdom of God to bring all Heaven and Earth to repentance and salvation!

And I will tell you on the authority of Jesus Christ and all the Holy Scriptures, that anyone who teaches and takes delight in thinking that God would ever torture anyone for all eternity, will NEVER BE IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD WITH SUCH AN ATTITUDE!

Such damnable character flaws of the mind and spirit are going to be burned out of us all! God will either BURN OUT these filthy impurities from our hearts and minds NOW, or He will BURN THEM OUT IN THE LAKE OF FIRE, but either way, make no mistake about it, THESE THINGS ARE COMING OUT!!!

JOHN THE BAPTIST: John the Baptist said that Jesus would be baptizing repentant believers with fire.
"I indeed baptize you with water unto REPENTANCE: but He that comes after me is mightier than I, Whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: He shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, AND WITH FIRE" (Matt. 3:11).

JESUS CHRIST: "For EVERY ONE [sinner and saint] shall be salted with FIRE" (Mark 9:49).

APOSTLE PETER: "That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perishes, though it [your faith] be TRIED IN THE FIRE, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ" (I Pet. 1:7).

APOSTLE PAUL: "Every manís work [including believers] shall be made manifest; for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed BY FIRE, and the FIRE shall try every manís work of what sort it is" (I Cor. 3:13).

With such noble and august witnesses, does anyone deny that the repentant, converted, dedicated, believing Christian will escape being "revealed," tried," "salted," and "baptized" by FIRE? These Scriptures are undeniable! Whatever this "fire" is, it is going to be used ON EVERYONE. These four Scriptures have the believer specifically in view, but it says and includes "EVERYONE shall be salted with FIRE," and "EVERY MANíS WORK ... shall be revealed by FIRE."

And there is absolutely NO DIFFERENCE when it comes to the non-believers:
"And I saw a great white throne ... And I saw the dead... and the dead were JUDGED... according to their WORKS... and they were judged EVERY MAN according to their WORKS" (Rev. 20:11-13).

And are these non-believers judged differently from believers who are "revealed, tried, salted and baptized IN FIRE?" Just HOW are these non-believers judged in the book of Revelation? How are the "...fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars..." JUDGED? Answer: "...In the lake WHICH BURNS WITH FIRE..." (Rev. 21:08)!

Is this "fire" in the book of Revelation DIFFERENT from the fire that tries the works of believers in the book of I Corinthians? NO. The word "fire" used in the four examples above concerning believers, is the SAME word "fire" used in the book of Revelation concerning non-believers:

STRONGís Greek Dictionary of the New Testament, page 219, #4442, pur; a primary word; "fire" (literally OR FIGURATIVELY. Pur is used (besides its ordinary natural significance):
(1) of the holiness of God, which consumes all that is inconsistent therewith, Heb. 10:27; 12:29; cf. Rev. 1:14; 2:18; 10:1; 15:2; 19:12;
(1a) similarly of the holy angels as His ministers, Heb. 1:7;
(1b) in Rev. 3:18 it is SYMBOLIC of that which tries the faith of saints, PRODUCING WHAT WILL GLORIFY THE LORD;
(2) of the divine judgment, testing the deeds of believers, at the judgment seat of Christ I Cor. 3:13 and 15;
(3) of the fire of DIVINE JUDGMENT upon the REJECTERS of Christ, Matt. 3:11 (where a distinction is to be made between the baptism of the holy Spirit at Pentecost and the "fire" of divine retribution; Acts 2:3 could not refer to baptism); Lk. 3:16."
End of quotation, (All CAPS emphasis are mine).

I was quite amazed to see this broadened definition in Strongís Concordance. In my Strongís Exhaustive Concordance that I purchased over forty years ago, it has but one line after the Greek word pur. It states that pur is "fire" either (literal or figurative), fiery, lightning. Thatís it. So when I purchased the NEW Strongís Expanded Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible last week, I was pleasantly surprised to see the expanded definitions, especially with reference to this word "pur" -- FIRE. I learned the use of the word "fire" in Scripture the hard way -- I had to research.

We could easily spend twenty pages just commenting on the examples used in this expanded version of Strongís. I wonít do that, but letís take a brief look at a few enlightening items: First, we learn that this word can be, and is, used "figuratively." And in fact, the first five examples given in Strongís ARE examples of figurative usage of the word fire. And of the 500+ times the word 'fire' is used in the Bible, hundreds of times the word 'fire' is used in a figurative or symbolic sense.

I call your attention to the statement in Strongís (1b) "In Rev. 3:18 it [fire] is SYMBOLIC, of that which tries the faith of saints, PRODUCING WHAT WILL GLORIFY THE LORD"! (CAPS emphasis mine).

I just love it when Christian Scholars will occasionally just absolutely "nail" a Scriptural Truth. Notice this beautiful and profound Scriptural Truth: The symbolic fire of Rev. 3:18 tries the faith of the saints, and PRODUCES what will GLORIFY THE LORD! ASTOUNDING!

Carefully note that it is not the "believer" who "produces" these glorious things, but it is the "SYMBOLIC FIRE" that produces them. And just Who is this "symbolic fire?" It is, of course, GOD -- "For OUR GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE." (Heb. 12:29)!

Therefore it is GOD who "PRODUCES" qualities in the saints that will GLORIFY HIMSELF! Godís consuming SPIRITUAL fire (remember that "GOD IS SPIRIT" Jn. 4:24) does the "producing," not the saint,
"For HIS ACHIEVEMENT are we, being created in Christ Jesus..." (Eph. 2:10).

"Now what have you which you did not OBTAIN? Now if you OBTAINED it also [from GOD] why are you boasting as though [you are] not obtaining [it from God]?" (I Cor. 4:7 Concordant Literal New Testament).
"All is of God" (II Cor. 5:18).

"The One Who is operating ALL in accord with the counsel of HIS will" (Eph. 1:11).

In statement (1) the editor of Strongís cites seven more Scriptures that are used symbolically and figuratively to demonstrate "the holiness of God, which CONSUMES ALL that is inconsistent therewith." It doesnít consume their physical bodies, nor does it burn their physical bodies to produce pain, but it "CONSUMES" all that is not consistent with Godís holiness. And these are the things of the heart, mind and spirit! It is not the "body" that needs chastisement and purification, it is the MIND, HEART, AND SPIRIT that needs purification from unholiness. You cannot burn pride and vanity out of oneís heart with REAL FIRE (besides the advocates of torturing with real fire for all eternity admit that it accomplishes NOTHING). It takes the fire of Godís spirit to burn away evils that have their origin in the realm of spirit.
"Furthermore we have had fathers of our FLESH which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of SPIRITS, and live? For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but He for our profit, that we might be partakers of His HOLINESS.

Now no chastening for the present seems to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby" (Heb. 12:9-11).

This is not difficult to understand. Our fathers in the FLESH have corrected us with rods, straps, belts, sticks, paddles, and the back of their hand. This was done for our teaching and correcting. And it worked, "...we gave them reverence..." Now then, "...shall we not MUCH RATHER be in subjection unto the Father of SPIRITS..."?

Our Heavenly Father is NOT FLESH, but is the Father of SPIRITS! God is SPIRIT. God is working with our SPIRITUAL life. God does not chasten and correct us believers in Christ Jesus with physical rods, straps, belts, sticks, paddles, and the back of His hand! So how is it that God our Father of spirits accomplishes on a spiritual level what our physical fathers tried to accomplish on a physical level? Verse 29 gives us the answer: "For our God is a CONSUMING FIRE !"

As trash is burned and precious metals are purified by the use of LITERAL and PHYSICAL fire, so God burns our spiritual trash and purifies those qualities of character worth saving by His SYMBOLIC and SPIRITUAL fire. Physical fire is inanimate and uncaring. Godís spiritual fire is caring and loving.

There it is. Thereís the gospel; thereís the purpose for human existence; thereís the plan of God. God is forming man into the very image of Himself. This requires not only a knowledge of good and evil, but an experience of good and evil. God provides both. He is calling just a few select ones out of this world now, and He will call the remainder of the human race later.

Some sinners are called, given faith, brought to Christ, repent, receive Godís spirit and are being saved NOW. All the rest of the worldís sinners will also be called, given faith, brought to Christ, repent, receive Godís spirit and will be saved LATER. And God uses the same method to convert and save both groups of sinners. Thatís because God CHANGES NOT and God is NO RESPECTER of persons, and God WILLS to save all mankind, and God will perform ALL HIS WILL, PURPOSE, AND PLEASURE!!

All of the above verses regarding fire are used in a figurative and symbolic manner. Christ does not literally "baptize" (IMMERSE) His saints in REAL PHYSICAL FIRE. It would burn them all up, and there wouldnít be any saints or believers! Likewise we saw in Part I that the "lake of fire" is also symbolic and used in a metaphor to describe a SPIRITUAL TRUTH. More on this later.

And so we are assured that EVERYONE will be "revealed," "tried," "salted," and "baptized" "in FIRE." And these fiery trials as Peter calls them go on for a lifetime. If it were real, physical fire, all believersí lives would be short indeed. God is SPIRIT, and God is a CONSUMING FIRE. It is Godís SPIRIT that is likened to fire. The spiritual teaching in this symbol is to recognize what real fire accomplishes and to then use that as an analogy as to what God DOES TO US (or more properly FOR US).

Fire does a number of things:
Fire CHANGES things. Fire brings about molecular changes in the materials that are burned. Godís spiritual fire will make changes in our mind, heart, and spirit.

Fire PURGES. In times past if a building were diseased and rat-infested, they would purge away the filth by burning it down. We are to be purged from all our diseases of sin and carnality. Jesus Christ paid the penalty of sin for us, but now God wants to get at the root and core of what caused us to sin in the first place. We all need desperately to be CHANGED and PURGED.

Fire BURNS UP combustible materials that have no value in saving. God will burn out of all of us the straw, grass, and stubble, which represent evil and wrong doctrines, idols of the heart, and philosophies that exalt themselves against God.

Fire PURIFIES things of value which we do want to retain. The analogy is used in the Scriptures of purifying gold by fire to make it more beautiful and more valuable. Gold represents the highest doctrines of spiritual understanding such as the Love of God and the Sovereignty of God, and salvation of all.

No one teaches us more regarding the fiery trials of life than the apostle to the nations, Paul. Paul was "revealed, tried, salted, and baptized" in Godís "CONSUMING FIRE," and yet never a single hair on his head was ever singed.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 12:34:30 PM by Kat »

Mike Gagne

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« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2016, 03:27:44 PM »

Thanks Kat, I Like to put my name here,I believe he's describing exactly what you posted...

  All this came upon Mike Gagne...
  At the end of twelve months he walked in the palace of the kingdom of Babylon.
  And I spoke, and said, Is not this great Babylon, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of my power, and for the honour of my majesty?
   While the word was in my mouth, there fell a voice from heaven, saying, Oh Mike Gagne to thee it is spoken; The kingdom is departed from thee.
    And they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field: they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and seven times shall pass over thee, until thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.
   The same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Mike and he was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles' feathers, and his nails like birds' claws.

Then at the end of my days...

Mike Gagne Restored

    And at the end of the days I Mike Gagne lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:
     And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
     At the same time my reason returned unto me; and for the glory of my kingdom, mine honour and brightness returned unto me; and my counsellors and my lords sought unto me; and I was established in my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added unto me.                                     
    Now I Mike Gagne praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.

Just be thinking for the last two months on all this and yes, we through much tribulations enter into the Kingdom of God...
As LRay said, getting saved will be the hardest thing we will ever do...


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« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2016, 04:43:02 PM »

Hi Michael, we are all works in progress. The truth is that we are all a mess and we need God's fire to work out all the imperfections that we have developed.

Rom 3:10  as it is written: "There is none righteous, no not one;
v. 11  there is none that understands, there is none that seeks after God."
v. 12  "They are all gone out of the way, they have together become unprofitable, there is none that does good, no, not one."

In actuality we have to be worldly first, we have to get right up to our necks in it, to have and fully know/understand what evil is.

Titus 3:3  For we ourselves also were once foolish, disobedient, deceived, slaving for various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, hating one another.

We all have had our part in the world, one way or the other... none of us have had the same experiences, so neither will we need the same corrections. But if we are going to be one of God's children, we will have to have all the garbage cleaned out of us. Whatever character traits we have developed that is not in accord with God's plan and purpose then that must come out and some of it is going to be a really tough removal.

Heb 12:6  for whom the Lord loves He chastens, and He scourges every son whom He receives."
v. 7  If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons, for what son is he whom the father does not chasten?

We have to trust that these trials by fire really are what we need, even good for us. Ever been through a home renovation? The more rooms you have done the worse it is and it was a terrible thing, at least it was for me... God is renovating us, getting rid of the old and bringing in the new man/woman (Eph 2:15, 4:24; Col 3:10). But it's all good, it's the best thing that could possible happen to us.

Titus 3:4  But when the kindness and love of God our Savior toward man appeared,
v. 5  not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
v. 6  whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
v. 7  that being justified by His grace, we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

mercy, peace and love
« Last Edit: January 16, 2016, 06:45:30 PM by Kat »

Mike Gagne

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« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2016, 05:23:42 PM »

Hi Kat, yes I agree. Even in the renovation there is a time to build and a time to tear down. And a time to cast away and a time to gather. I have been going through both of these, and lately its been a time to tear down and cast away! I can know see the love of God in all my tribulations and for this I will praise the Name of Jesus and exalt Him the most High God...

 I been reading in the back ground, and I haven't left here, there isn't any place to go. This is where the we, the us gather. Nothing in the world interest me anymore. We have 200 stations of tv and thee is nothing that I find of interest. Same as music, I find it all to be useless to me.
 To the brethren Love Peace and Joy


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« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2016, 02:16:47 PM »

Here are a few more excerpts on judgment from LOF no. 3 article. --------------

                                                      BECOMING PERFECT

Jesus Christ DIED FOR OUR SINS, and that accomplishes the SALVATION OF THE WHOLE WORLD, because God will eventually bring every creature in HEAVEN AND IN EARTH to repentance and humble submission to Jesus Christ (Phil. 2:9-11, Rom. 10:9, I Cor. 15:25). But forgiving sin, pardoning sin, justifying our sinful past, or even redeeming our bodies and giving us incorruptible and immortal bodies, does NOT make us perfect in deed and character!

God is PERFECT! And God wants His children to BE PERFECT! And believe it or not God WILL ... MAKE ... US ... PERFECT!

"He [God] chooses us in Him [Christ] before the disruption [foundation] of the world, we to be HOLY and FLAWLESS [PERFECT] in His sight..." (Eph. 1:4).

"You, then, shall be PERFECT as your heavenly Father is perfect" (Mat. 5:48).

"I in them, and Thou in Me, that they [thatís US] may be made PERFECT in one; and that the world may know that Thou hast sent me, and hast loved Me, and hast loved them, as Thou hast loved Me" (John 17:23).

"Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man PERFECT in Christ Jesus" (Col. 1:28).

People are quick to say, "Well, NOBODY is perfect." Thatís not true:

"For it became HIM, for Whom are all things, and by Whom are all things, in bringing many [thatís us and the rest of the world] sons unto glory, to make the CAPTAIN of their salvation PERFECT [how?] Through SUFFERING" (Heb. 2:10).

Yes, maybe no one but Christ is perfect now, but it wonít always be that way. Paul knew that it was a process and that it would be ultimately Godís achievement:

"Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus" (Phil. 3:12).

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some pastors and teachers; For the PERFECTING OF THE SAINTS..." (Eph. 4:11-12).

Say, did you notice that Christ was perfected through "SUFFERING?" Are we not to bear our own Cross? If they hated and persecuted Christ, will they not do likewise to us? Do we think the Scripture says in vain,

"Herein is our love made PERFECT, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as He  [Christ] IS, SO ARE WE in the world" (I Jn. 4:17).

Paul tells us in I Thes. 2 and II Thes. 1 that suffering and persecutions are a big part of the judgment that God uses to test us and to deem us worthy of His kingdom and salvation.
                                                GRACE AND JUDGMENT

"For whom the Lord loves He CHASTENS..." (Heb. 12:6).
There is no escaping it. If you are to be a "son of God" you will be chastened. Now I donít want to pile too much on you at once here, but thereís more. As you can see from the definition above, the word "chastened" is paideuo, and is not too severe. Even if involving some punishment, the whole thrust of the word is to train, educate, discipline, instruct, etc. These are all good things not to be feared. But there is more, so we might just as well read it and get our attitudes adjusted to it. The rest of the verse:

"For whom the Lord loves He CHASTENS, and [AND] ...SCOURGES every son whom He receives [or is assenting]" (Heb. 12:6)

"SCOURGES?" No, not scourging! Does God show His love toward us by scourging us? It is absolutely necessary. Scourging is definitely even more severe and harsh than chastening.

The word "scourge" in Heb. 12:6 is from the Greek word mastigoo and hereís its definition: "to flog (literally or figuratively) -- scourge" Strongís Greek Dictionary, page 46. And what does "flog" mean?

"flog 1. To beat severely with a whip or rod." Page 531 American heritage College Dictionary.

This word "scourge" in Heb. 12:6 which God performs on us, is the very same word found in John 19:1 where it says they took Jesus and "scourged" Him. Now then, will God literally "BEAT SEVERELY WITH A WHIP OR ROD" every son that He receives? No, not necessarily, even though they did literally do so to Paul and many other followers of Jesus Christ. Remember that the definition said it can be "literal OR figurative."

Many people have come to know Christ in their senior years, and God does not literally beat every little old lady with whips and rods when they turn to Him. However, the chastening of Godís grace which we read about in Titus 2:11 can certainly seem like a real flogging. God will chasten us until He drives out the beast in us. The beast of supposed "free will" which is really self-will does not want to leave peaceably! It takes the very presence of Jesus Christ to dispel the beast of humanistic self-determinism, commonly called "free will."

Although we are not condemned when God judges us, we nonetheless must be chastened.

"If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chastens not? But if you be without chastisement, whereof ALL are partakers, then are you ********, and NOT sons. Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection into the Father of spirits, and live? For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but He for OUR PROFIT, that we might be partakers of His holiness. Now no chastening for the present seems to be joyous, but GRIEVOUS: nevertheless afterward it yields the PEACEABLE FRUIT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS unto them which are exercised thereby" (Heb. 12:7--11).

So it is essential that we accept Godís chastisement which is how He "judges" us.

The reason we are not "condemned" with the world is because we accept Godís judgment in our lives

"There is therefore now NO CONDEMNATION to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" (Rom. 8:1).
Now we learned from Scripture that if we would volunteer to have God judge us now that we would not need to be condemned with the world in the lake of fire. And Peter tells us that this judgment (like the one the Thessalonians were going through) must begin at the HOUSE OF GOD. We saw that it involves much tribulation, sorrow, affliction and suffering. These things are Godís judgment on believers to try their hearts and prove them worthy for the Kingdom of God. Christ told us that if we do not forsake all (even give our very bodies as a living Sacrifice, according to Paul) and take up OUR cross and follow Christ into persecutions that start in our own household, then He doesnít want us in the kingdom with Him -- we are NOT WORTHY (at this time)!

Now if you are following these Scriptures closely you will see that we are to give our bodies as a living sacrifice and endure suffering, affliction, and persecution. But there is MORE! Oh NO, how much more can we take? What else? TRIALS. There are trials! The word "trial" in the New Testament is translated from the Greek word dokimion and means TESTING. God is going to TEST us. Are you excited about that? Me neither. However, it must be done. We must go through it. Peter tells us the many trials and temptations are a heaviness to your hearts, but because we know why we are going through it, we can, nevertheless, REJOICE!

"Wherein ye GREATLY REJOICE, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in HEAVINESS THROUGH MANIFOLD TEMPTATIONS" (I Peter 1:6).

Ah, yes, how sweet it is in the mouth (REJOICE), but how bitter it is in the belly (HEAVINESS) (Rev. 10:10). But say, did you notice how LONG these trials last? For eternity? Or for "a season"? Remember there is NO partiality with God. Later we will see that those in the final judgment of lake of fire will also be there for just "a season" not eternally!

Mike Gagne

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« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2016, 09:02:28 PM »

Hi Kat, I just want to add this...

      Zec 13:8  And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
Zec 13:9  And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

I can relate to this...  And I turned and I saw that some things no longer held me captive and I was free from them....


Mike Gagne

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« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2016, 09:07:51 PM »

I forgot to write this in the last post...

  The LORD is my GOD...

Love , Peace and Joy to the Brethren


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« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2016, 12:54:06 AM »

Psalm 34:18 (KJV) "The LORD [is] nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit."

Psalm 51:17 (KJV) "The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise."

Isaiah 66:2 (KJV) "For all those [things] hath mine hand made, and all those [things] have been, saith the LORD: but to this [man] will I look, [even] to [him that is] poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word."

From Ray's "Tithing is Unscriptural" paper:

"The sacrifices spoken of in Malachi were not suitable for God’s house. They offered "POLLUTED BREAD" and we saw some of the many sins that constituted this polluted bread. Here are the only sacrifices that are fit for God’s storehouse:

"The sacrifices of God are A BROKEN SPIRIT: a broken a CONTRITE HEART…" (Psalm 51:17)."

And from "Why does God love you"


Why should submitting His Son to a brutal beating and crucifixion "please Him?"

"Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him; He hath put Him to grief: when You shall make His soul an offering [death on the cross] for sin" (Isaiah 53:10)

The Hebrew word translated "bruise" means: "to crumble; beat to pieces, break (in pieces), bruise, contrite, crush, destroy, humble, oppress, smite" (Strong's Hebrew Lexicon). Read that again... Think about that for a few minutes... How could such human devastation, depravation, and cruel degradation, to One's only Son possibly "PLEASE" His Father? God had to know that what He was doing would not produce the slightest failure. Such an unfathomable sacrifice could only be justified if it produced 100% total success and perfection.

God was not taking a chance by sacrificing His Son "while" we were yet sinners, "before" we ever repented, because God knows that salvation is totally in His hands and not in the hands of humanity. If repentance, conversion, and salvation was up to us, God could not be sure that one single person would ever repent and be saved. Here are but a few of the reasons that the salvation of the whole human race is totally dependant upon God and God only:" EORM

I think I would be concerned that either I wasn't paying attention, or God had no interest in me - without the trials I experience.  I don't invite them (ever!), but secretly appreciate them in a very narrow context (and yet am terrified), but our sacrifices are being kept by God (storehoused) and are significant milestones in our worship and growing obedience to God.

It's so difficult to accept these things we experience while we're in torment, but keeping in mind the goal, it's hard to protest, even though I often do.

Hebrews 12:1 (KJV) "Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset [us], and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,"

« Last Edit: January 20, 2016, 01:06:18 AM by Jeff »

Mike Gagne

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« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2016, 01:11:37 PM »

Hi Jeff.

 :)  Yes Amen...


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« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2016, 10:42:34 AM »

Is it safe to say that our faith will be tried severely? To the point where sometimes we might ask, "God where are you? Please help me I cant do it!". Which brings me to my next question. In what way or how does God make a way out? Where is the witness or answer?

1Co 10:13  There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Is it grace, being divine influence of the heart "a way to escape"?

I guess having the beast within revealed (by fire) to me can be too much to handle at times. It's a miracle God can keep a person's spirit up despite all that.
Sometimes when I close my eye's, I can't see.


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« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2016, 12:42:53 PM »

Hi Porter, I think God is dealing with each of us according to our personality and what talents/abilities He is building in us, and some of us are more stubborn and need a firmer hand in correcting the error of our ways. Also I think we tend to deal with trials differently, some looking on their suffering as devastating, while another just takes it in stride. But we all must have our beast - carnality brought into submission (only can be done the Holy Spirit indwelling), one way or another, "I must decrease." The thing is God knows exactly how to deal with each of us and when it's time to give us a rest.

2Peter 2:9  then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment until the day of judgment,

Jer 29:10  For thus says the LORD: After seventy years are completed at Babylon, I will visit you and perform My good word toward you, and cause you to return to this place.
v. 11  For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, says the LORD, thoughts of peace and not of evil, to give you a future and a hope.
v. 12  Then you will call upon Me and go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you.
v. 13  And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart.

Jesus Christ lived a physical life as a man and knows what suffering is like, He is a loving God and though the lessons He is teaching us is hard, He sympathizes with us and is very merciful with us.

Heb 4:15  For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.
v. 16  Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

In all this suffering He wants us to trust Him and have faith that He will get us through it and we will be better because of it... so the 'escape' will be provided and will always come at the right time that it's needed. It's a process, and it takes time, maybe we begin to think it's too much or takes too long, but God with all His mercy and grace knows what is best and not too much for us.

It is developing that attitude of complete trust, that comes from the trials we have and that's what He wants in us. So we go through these things as we are being made new, and eventually we begin to understand that the trials are worth what we are gaining from them.

2Co 4:16  Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day.

Php 4:4  Rejoice in the Lord always. Again I will say, rejoice!
v. 5  Let your gentleness be known to all men. The Lord is at hand.
v. 6  Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God;
v. 7  and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

mercy, peace and love
« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 09:12:19 PM by Kat »


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« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2016, 05:51:13 AM »

Thanks Kat that was helpful.

Sometimes when I close my eye's, I can't see.
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