Temptation

[Mike Gagne]

 I am looking for some thoughts on this, specially on the way to escape? I have my ideas but would like to hear from some here!

1Co 10:13  There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.


Thanks R.P J

[rick]

Hi Mike,

I notice you underlind ( but with the temptation also make a way to escape )
Why does anyone sin to begin with?
what way does God make for one to escape with ?

Sin to me is just doing something I like to do that God does not agree with. I guess the question is how does God get me to stop doing what I like to do that is not righteous in His sight?

This I know, God does what God does and I do as I do and the time will come when God says enough and then I will do as God does and as I do will be no more.

I cannot be tempted by anything I do not like, All I can say is create in me Lord a new heart because the one I have now is corrupt and that I've come to understand.

I find no good thing dwells in my flesh, who will save me from this body of death, I thank the Lord Jesus who know me better than I know my self.

God bless.

[arion]

but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.


Thanks R.P J

ἔκβασις
ekbasis
Thayer Definition:
1) an egress, way out, exit
1a) applied figuratively to the way of escape from temptation
2) the issue referring to the end of one's life
2a) Heb_13:7 refers not only to end of physical life, but the manner in which they closed a well spent life as exhibited by their spirit in dying


The way to 'escape' is in the death of the beast within.  There is nothing that we can do in and of ourselves to accomplish this imo.


2Th 2:8  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:


That is the only way to 'escape'.  The beast has to die and Christ has to do it in us.  A lot of the things we want to escape from we just have to endure until God works in us and through us to do it.

[rick]

Scripture tells us what to do and how we are to walk in this life, I think its quite noble for those who read scriprure and try to adhere to its teaching but to all that do try are self deceived thinking the ability is in them to accomplish such a thing being made in vanity not understanding we are to spiritually weak to adhere to the laws of God.

Its Gods creation and Gods plan to save all , if I leared anything  through Rays papers its this, I can do nothing on my own, that means to me, if God doesn't do it , its not getting done,  but with patients we wait upon the Lord  and in waiting we learn great patients.

Jesus told the women who was caught in adultery go and sin no more , does any think she actually never sinned again?

How can something that is corrupt change ? Jesus is the anwser .

[Wittenberg]

If free will doesn't exist, why have guilt or shame over sinning (not that you are)? We will stop sinning when we're dead or if the Lord chooses us to become overcommers. I pray most days to stop sinning but it has gone unanswered as of yet. It's frustrating, but teaches me patience. There will be a day when I stop sinning, I look forward to it.
As for your question, if you figure it out, let me know.

[Mike Gagne]

Thanks Everyone who replied.

I know that God is sovereign, and I can do nothing of my own. And yes Arion we must kill the beast, but do we need actually to sin to be guilty of that sin? What is the way of escape? I think we do lots here and I am looking for someone to confirm with what I am thinking. If it is  in my heart then I am already guilty. I don't think Jesus does it all for us, yes He holds us accountable and we must judge are selves. Is this the way to escape from actually doing the sin as we are already guilty of it because it is in are heart, are we to judge it when it comes to thought before it becomes the actual doing of the sin? Or does the, ( that you may be able to bear it ) part mean that I must go through the actual doing and he will strengthen me through it?  I think not, thats why I posted this looking for someone to say something in agreement. Hope I am not confusing anyone hear. I guess that would make the sermon on the mount for me.  By judging it right when I think of it can that stop me from sining?

Thanks

[Wittenberg]

Is the point of existence, to not sin?

[Mike Gagne]

Hi Wittenberg, you quote

Is the point of existence, to not sin?

My question to you is , is a overcomer someone who continues in sin?

[Wittenberg]

It's my understanding that they wont. I have yet to meet one or hear of one. That leads me to believe that God has yet to activate His overcomers. I view my sinning and others sinning as the training before the reigning.
Obviously I hate that I sin, but God thought it was necessary, so I try to view it in that lens and get blessed through it. Consider it pure joy when you face trials of every kind. My sinning is a trial. It can be impossible sometimes for me to see the blessing in sin sometimes, but I believe one day I will understand.

[Dave in Tenn]

It isn't a question, to me, of sinning or not sinning as if it is all in or all out.  Remember what Ray taught from the Revelation.  A third of the trees were killed.  A third of the waters.  Etc.  No, we are not going to be 100% free of sin (especially when we remember that sin is in the heart before it ever becomes a deed--IF ever).  Those who overcome do so in increments.  Do I think the woman taken in adultery never sinned again?  No...but I can believe she never again committed adultery.

We can reach a point where sin no longer has dominion over us.  While I also have not met a person who does NO sin, I can at least imagine a time in my own life when sin doesn't have dominion, but is a slip, a weakness in a hard moment, a failing, a remnant of ignorance, or unwillingness.  Not all sin is willful.  Enough of mine ARE that I cannot say sin has no dominion over me, but life isn't over yet.  Paul said it of himself at the end of his life.

This 'sin' that reigns in our members--the one that goes against our will--this weakness, mistakes, failures, etc--will be gone when these bodies are changed in Resurrection at His appearing.  Then we will be like Him, if He has chosen us for that then.  Until then, we have the down-payment of His spirit.  Or not.

[Mike Gagne]

 Ok let me say it different, I know in may heart to think on it really makes me guilty so do I need to actually do it? Cant I stop it right there, right after it comes out of my heart? Why must I actually do it, isn't it sin when I thought about It?

[Wittenberg]

The pharisee sinned by hating Jesus, yet they needed to put him to death to complete the sacrifice. I too sin in my heart but I also sin in outwardly ways, same as anyone.
God uses your outward sin to bless you and others, maybe not today but someday. I've said this before on this forum, in the age to come our sin against others will bind us as a body of Christ in forgiveness. The people I have sinned against will forgive me someday, if not already. Because of their forgiveness I will have love for them for eternity. Where there is much forgiveness there is much love....
Today's sin will be a source of love and forgiveness for the rest of time. I understand it's frustrating and embarrassing to be such a sinner, I am amazing at sinning. But someday we will all be thankful and blessed by it. God made no mistake in the garden of Eden.

[Mike Gagne]

Hi Wittenberg, yes, but then I am cautious to agree

1Jn 3:1  Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1Jn 3:2  Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
1Jn 3:3  And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
1Jn 3:4  Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jn 3:5  And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jn 3:6  Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7  Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8  He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9  Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10  In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

What do I do with those scriptures?

I know that my flesh will always want to sin, but Paul kept his body under subjection.


Romans 6:18-19   (KJV)

18  Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19  I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

1Co 9:27  But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Did Paul keep his flesh under subjection By judgement? I think so.

Romans 6:14   (KJV)

14  For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Galatians 5:1   (KJV)

5:1  Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Psalms 119:32   (KJV)

32  I will run the way of thy commandments, when thou shalt enlarge my heart.


Did Paul or the other apostle continue in sin? Did they keep doing the things they didn't want to do? Or did they Over come?  Was Peter really free when he said this?

1 Peter 2:16   (KJV)

16  As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.


The reason for all this is because it seems since coming out of Babylon I have been going a little backwards! If ever other person around me is immoral and doing those things how can I do those things and think I am different?  I know that I am in judgement and I am learning righteousness, but must I actually do the sin that comes out of my heart? Or is it even sin to me??

[Mike Gagne]

It isn't a question, to me, of sinning or not sinning as if it is all in or all out.  Remember what Ray taught from the Revelation.  A third of the trees were killed.  A third of the waters.  Etc.  No, we are not going to be 100% free of sin (especially when we remember that sin is in the heart before it ever becomes a deed--IF ever).  Those who overcome do so in increments.  Do I think the woman taken in adultery never sinned again?  No...but I can believe she never again committed adultery.

We can reach a point where sin no longer has dominion over us.  While I also have not met a person who does NO sin, I can at least imagine a time in my own life when sin doesn't have dominion, but is a slip, a weakness in a hard moment, a failing, a remnant of ignorance, or unwillingness.  Not all sin is willful.  Enough of mine ARE that I cannot say sin has no dominion over me, but life isn't over yet.  Paul said it of himself at the end of his life.

This 'sin' that reigns in our members--the one that goes against our will--this weakness, mistakes, failures, etc--will be gone when these bodies are changed in Resurrection at His appearing.  Then we will be like Him, if He has chosen us for that then.  Until then, we have the down-payment of His spirit.  Or not.

Really good point Dave I had to reread it yes I now remember what LRay said on it. I will go back and read that again!

[Wittenberg]

Dave's point is very cool and on point. Regarding the verses you bring up, obviously I agree. Like Ray said, salvation is more than saying a prayer it's an impossible process, impossible without God. Sin can not be in God's presence, all men sin. Someday, no man will sin.

[Dave in Tenn]

Ok let me say it different, I know in may heart to think on it really makes me guilty so do I need to actually do it?

No.

Cant I stop it right there, right after it comes out of my heart?

Yes.

Ray spoke on this matter, but somebody else will have to find it.

Both of those answers assume you have been given power.  Both of those answers are also with the understanding that even in your weakness, HE shows His power.

I also don't believe that stopping sinning is, by itself, the meaning of life and existence.  I'd liken that to a very sick man being cured of his illness, but going about the same meaningless life he lived before.  He tells us the meaning of life and existence right in the beginning of the book.  This work He is doing in creating mankind in His image is multi-faceted.  It is not either-or.  To be "like Him" is to be "without sin".  But it is much more than that, too. 

[Mike Gagne]

Yes.

Ray spoke on this matter, but somebody else will have to find it.

Both of those answers assume you have been given power.  Both of those answers are also with the understanding that even in your weakness, HE shows His power.

I also don't believe that stopping sinning is, by itself, the meaning of life and existence.  I'd liken that to a very sick man being cured of his illness, but going about the same meaningless life he lived before.  He tells us the meaning of life and existence right in the beginning of the book.  This work He is doing in creating mankind in His image is multi-faceted.  It is not either-or.  To be "like Him" is to be "without sin".  But it is much more than that, too

Thanks Dave, I will have to look for that and hopefully someone knows where its at?

[Extol]

Yes.

Ray spoke on this matter, but somebody else will have to find it.

Both of those answers assume you have been given power.  Both of those answers are also with the understanding that even in your weakness, HE shows His power.

I also don't believe that stopping sinning is, by itself, the meaning of life and existence.  I'd liken that to a very sick man being cured of his illness, but going about the same meaningless life he lived before.  He tells us the meaning of life and existence right in the beginning of the book.  This work He is doing in creating mankind in His image is multi-faceted.  It is not either-or.  To be "like Him" is to be "without sin".  But it is much more than that, too

Thanks Dave, I will have to look for that and hopefully someone knows where its at?

It was the last part of the 2009 Mobile conference...The two audios labeled THEONEGOD

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,10844.0.html

I'm not sure why they're titled that, because Ray talks about what we think, and how we overcome sin, not about God being One...

If you would rather read the transcripts here is the link for that:

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11521.0.html

(scroll down to near the end, start at "Audio 10")

[Mike Gagne]

Thanks Extol, listening now. Listened 4 times this month already. Great stuff

[Mike Gagne]

Thanks everyone, a lot of great stuff here...



R.P and Joy to all