bible-truths.com/forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Need Account Help?  Email bibletruths.forum@gmail.com   

Forgotten password reminders does not work. Contact the email above and state what you want your password changed to. (it must be at least 8 characters)

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Virgin Birth  (Read 929 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

cheekie3

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 614
  • Joshua 1:8
Virgin Birth
« on: March 07, 2016, 03:04:25 PM »

All -

Has Ray taught on the Virgin Birth.

The reason I ask is that someone has stated that the word virgin used to mean a young woman of marriageable age and not one that had not had sex yet (both in the Hebrew Old Testament and the Greek New Testament); referencing the Lord's promise to give Isaiah and his wife Ahaz (the prophetess) wife a son (stating she was the prophetess who already had a son) in Isaiah 7:3 & 14 and 8:3.

Isaiah 7:3 And Jehovah saith unto Isaiah, `Go forth, I pray thee, to meet Ahaz, thou, and Shear-Jashub thy son, unto the end of the conduit of the upper pool, unto the highway of the fuller's field,

10 And Jehovah addeth to speak unto Ahaz, saying:

11 `Ask for thee a sign from Jehovah thy God, Make deep the request, or make [it] high upwards.'

12 And Ahaz saith, `I do not ask nor try Jehovah.'

13 And he saith, `Hear, I pray you, O house of David, Is it a little thing for you to weary men, That ye weary also my God?

14 Therefore the Lord Himself giveth to you a sign, Lo,14 Therefore the Lord Himself giveth to you a sign, Lo, the Virgin is conceiving, And is bringing forth a son, And hath called his name Immanuel,

Isaiah 8:3 And I draw near unto the prophetess, and she conceiveth, and beareth a son; and Jehovah saith unto me, `Call his name Maher-shalal-hash-baz,


Could Matthew 1:16 mean that Joseph begot Jesus; as I believe only men can beget children:

Matthew 1:15 and Eliud begat Eleazar, and Eleazar begat Matthan, and Matthan begat Jacob,

16 and Jacob begat Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was begotten Jesus, who is named Christ.

Just curious.

Kind Regards.

George.

Logged
The Acts of The Apostles 1:8 (NIBEV) "But you shall receive power when His Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

octoberose

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 436
Re: Virgin Birth
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2016, 10:55:24 PM »

Hi George,
  The genealogy in Matthew is establishing Jesus through the throne of David from his earthly father, Joseph. I read that this is not a blood lineage, but a legal lineage of Jesus through Joseph.  The Gospel of Luke is thought to record the lineage from Mary.
 This is interesting, "Jacob begot Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus who is called Christ." " Matthew makes it clear here that Joseph was not the father of Jesus, but the husband of Mary. "  So, I guess that's the answer for me.
 
Logged

Dave in Tenn

  • Administrator
  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4087
    • FaceBook David Sanderson
Re: Virgin Birth
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2016, 06:31:04 AM »

Mat 1:18  Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Mat 1:24  Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
Mat 1:25  And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

Luk 1:31  And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
Luk 1:32  He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Luk 1:33  And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Luk 1:34  Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
Luk 1:35  And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.


Could Matthew 1:16 mean that Joseph begot Jesus; as I believe only men can beget children:

Zec 13:3  And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.

Just because the names of the mother's are not always mentioned, surely doesn't mean they had no 'role' in the 'begatting'.  That's neither spirit NOR life.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 06:48:46 AM by Dave in Tenn »
Logged
Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

willemv

  • Guest
Re: Virgin Birth
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2016, 12:51:14 PM »

I think the answers to the question are quite correct and there certainly is nothing ambiguous in Scripture about the virgin birth of our Lord ,also not in this prophesy in Isaiah 7 :14. One reason why this prophesy is not understood is because if we consider the fullfilling of it we think in Cardinal years (with our carnal minds) from the time of the prophesy to the birth of Christ whereas we should think spiritually  in Ordinal years ie years in which God looked upon Israel (in this case Judah ) as His people and it was not long after Ahaz that the Babylonians took Israel into captivity and all prophesy ended with Malachi .The ± 400 years between Malachi and the virgin birth of Christ were Cardinal years ,but not Ordinal years as God had turned away from His people.
But I do take some exception to the question -- Ahaz was the King of Judah and certainly not the wife of Isaiah. It is also quite clear if one reads Isaiah 7 that there is no connection between the prophesy and the birth of the son of the prophetess Maher-shalal-hash-baz.Just read the complete prophesy which continuous in vs 15 "Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil and choose the good ".Surely that refers to the Son of man and not to the son of a man.1 Peter 1:11-12 tells us that the prophets of old prophesied many prophesies of which they themselves had no idea of the time they would be fulfilled, but they were clear to the Apostles through the Holy Spirit. Let us keep on building up one another in the wondrous Word of God kindest greetings ,Wim
Logged

Kat

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7071
    • facebook
Re: Virgin Birth
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2016, 05:49:16 PM »


What more proof do you need than the Scripture that state Mary was a virgin.

Isa 7:14  Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel.

Luke 1:26  In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth,
v. 27  to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. And the virgin's name was Mary.
Luke 1:30  And the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.
v. 31  And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus.
Luke 1:34  And Mary said to the angel, "How will this be, since I am a virgin?" (ESV)

Matt 1:23  "Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel" (which means, God with us).

Here is an email about the lineage of Jesus.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=3811.0 -----

    Apparently, Luke's account IS Mary's genealogy.
    King James reads:  "...the son of Joseph which was the son of Heli" (Luke 3:23).
    Rotherham:  "...the son of Joseph of Heli."
    Concordant:  "...being a son (as to the law) of Joseph, of Eli, of Matthat, of Levi.
     
    Now then, "son of" is clearly not in the Greek, and so it is not necessarily fitting that
    it should be supplied by the translators in this case.
     
    Joseph in Matthew's genealogy of Jesus is not the "son of Heli" but rather Jacob (Matt. 1:16).

    And so this could be a case such as we find in Deut. 25:5-6--"If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger: her HUSBAND'S BROTHER shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife, and perform the duty of an husband's brother unto her.  And it shall be, that the firstborn which she bears shall succeed IN THE NAME OF HIS BROTHER which is dead, that his name be not put out of Israel."

    And so Heli may have been a "son IN LAW" rather than "a son." And this could be Mary's genealogy back to Solomon where they apparently merge again with Joseph's line. It is quite complicated. Theologians have made a life study of the genealogies, and their are several theories extant.
-----------------------------------------------------

From the commentary Treasures of Scriptural Knowledge (TSK) to add to what Ray had said about Jesus's lineage.

Luke 3:23
 The real father of Joseph was Jacob (Mat_1:16); but having married the daughter of Heli (being perhaps adopted by him), he was called his son, and as such was entered in the public registers; Mary not being mentioned, because the Hebrews never permitted the name of a woman to enter the genealogical tables, but inserted her husband as the son of him who was, in reality, but his father-in-law. 
Hence it appears that Matthew, who wrote principally for the Jews, traces the pedigree of Jesus Christ from Abraham, through whom the promises were given to the Jews, to David, and from David, through the line of Solomon, to Jacob the father of Joseph, the reputed or legal father of Christ;
and that Luke, who wrote for the Gentiles, extends his genealogy upwards from Heli, the father of Mary, through the line of Nathan, to David, and from David to Abraham, and from Abraham to Adam, who was the immediate “son of God” by creation, and to whom the promise of the Saviour was given in behalf of himself and all his posterity. 
The two branches of descent from David, by Solomon and Nathan, being thus united in the persons of Mary and Joseph, Jesus the son of Mary re-united in himself all the blood, privileges, and rights, of the whole family of David; in consequence of which he is emphatically called “the Son of David.”
-------------------------------------------------------

mercy, peace and love
Kat
Logged
Jam 4:14 " whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. What is your life? For ye are a vapor, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away."

cheekie3

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 614
  • Joshua 1:8
Re: Virgin Birth
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2016, 08:35:10 AM »

otoberose, Dave in Tenn and Kat -

Thank You All.

I appreciate your responses.

Confirming Truth is absolute in Life.

I do not believe any can deny this Scripture:

Mat 1:25  And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.

Kind Regards.

George.
Logged
The Acts of The Apostles 1:8 (NIBEV) "But you shall receive power when His Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."
Pages: [1]   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.085 seconds with 27 queries.