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Was Adam considered fully man before he sinned?
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: Dennis Vogel on June 05, 2016, 04:17:36 PM ---
--- Quote ---I don't think ray was doing away with that either when he pointed out that the word image carries a more literal sense as seen in genesis and the old testament.
At least, this is my impression.
God bless,
Alex
--- End quote ---
I don't understand what you mean Alex. Where did Ray say this?
Are you saying Jesus is now in heaven with a physical body?
--- End quote ---
I linked previous on the first page Dennis.
Here it is again;
--------------http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,7500.msg115456.html#msg115456---------
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
COMMENT: Yes He is. But think about this: As Jesus is the image of His Father, His Father MUST HAVE AN IMAGE. Not only is Jesus the image of the invisible God, but He made humanity likewise: "Let Us make man [Heb: 'humanity'] IN OUR IMAGE" (Gen. 1:26). I have known for thirty years that the Hebrew word for "image" always means "form, image, and shape," and never means "spiritual or moral character." So how can humanity be made in God's "image" if He doesn't have an image?
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Spiritual and moral would imply a more metaphorical or symbolic meaning were as the idea that the word never carries such sense implies that the "form, image, and shape," are more literal in their meaning. At least that is point I think ray is trying to make in saying this.
So what I'm saying is God has a "form/image/shape." This is what He created humanity after and you can find this in the many genesis references that have been shared and paul's usage of the word in the new testaement as well.
I never said Jesus has a 'physical body' because we know He has a spiritual body.
1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1 Corinthians 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1 Corinthians 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Philipians 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
Philipians 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
I've shared these scriptures because I think they are relevant to this discussion of image, form, and shape.
Colossians 2:9 For in Him [Jesus] dwelleth all the FULNESS of the deity BODILY.
Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
John 14:8-10
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
God bless,
Alex
Kat:
The Son (who became Jesus) was brought forth first in this creation (John 17:5) and given the image/shape/form of a man from the very beginning... as it seems He has the image of a man even when seen in the OT in His glorious form in a vision by Ezekiel.
Eze 1:26 And above the firmament over their (some kind of angel called "living creatures" v.5) heads was the likeness of a throne, in appearance like a sapphire stone; on the likeness of the throne was a likeness with the appearance of a man high above it.
v. 27 Also from the appearance of His waist and upward I saw, as it were, the color of amber with the appearance of fire all around within it; and from the appearance of His waist and downward I saw, as it were, the appearance of fire with brightness all around.
v. 28 Like the appearance of a rainbow in a cloud on a rainy day, so was the appearance of the brightness all around it. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. So when I saw it, I fell on my face, and I heard a voice of One speaking.
H120
'âdâm; ruddy, that is, a human being (an individual or the species, mankind, etc.): - X another, + hypocrite, + common sort, X low, man (mean, of low degree), person.
My thinking is the Son/Jesus was given the shape of a man, not as in physical flesh and blood, but likeness as in figure/form, because that same shape was also what the humans would be created in. So this gives us a God we can relate to, as we recognize the figure of a man and we can relate to being 'like' Him as we can more readily identify with Him. There are also a couple of Scripture that indicate that mankind already resemble or has a likeness to His image/shape, for us this is in a physical form.
1Cor 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, since he is the image(G1504) and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man.
G1504
eikōn; a likeness, that is, (literally) statue, profile, or (figuratively) representation, resemblance: - image.
James 3:9 With it (the tongue) we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse people who are made in the likeness(G3669) of God.
G3669
homoiōsis; assimilation, that is, resemblance: - similitude.
Gen 5:1 This is the book of the genealogy of Adam. In the day that God created man, He made him in the likeness(H1823) of God.
H1823
demûth; resemblance; concretely model, shape; adverbially like: - fashion, like (-ness, as), manner, similitude.
Gen 9:6 "Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed; For in the image(H6754) of God He made man.
H6754
tselem; a phantom, that is, (figuratively) illusion, resemblance; hence a representative figure, especially an idol: - image, vain shew.
I do not believe any of these Scripture that I have presented are speaking of us in a spiritual image, that is a process that only starts when the Spirit of Christ is indwelling, but we all have the same likeness as in form/shape. Just wanted to bring out these Scripture for consideration.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
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