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Author Topic: Luke 23:43  (Read 5054 times)

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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Luke 23:43
« Reply #40 on: May 25, 2016, 11:18:01 PM »

HI Bt family, I was just rereading this thread and I was thinking about the ones who rose from the dead after Christ's resurrection. We know that the Holy Spirit has not come at this time, so I'm wondering are the saints that rose after Jesus did, could they be a part of the 120 in the upper room waiting for the promise of the Holy Spirit? Acts 1: 13.14 gives a few names, but not all names, so could it be? I also have been preplexed about this as Octoberose has, but sitting here meditating on it, this thought came to my mind and I wanted to share it with y'all. They surely would make good witnesses to the resurrection, especially if they had been dead awhile.
These are just my hunble thoughts on the matter.

     Your sister in christ Jesus,
       Virginia Miller

Hi all,
What about the patriarchs and prophets of old? Could it include them? It was never clear to me if they would be in the first resurrection or not. We are told they would not precede us. So will they be in the first resurrection???

Heb 11:40  God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

 :-\

TRUTH NUMBER 3

[A] "Therefore speak I to them in parables, because they seeing SEE NOT: and hearing they HEAR NOT, NEITHER DO THEY UNDERSTAND" (Matt. 13:13).

[..b] "How is it that you [disciples] DO NOT UNDERSTAND…" (Matt. 16:11).

[C] "But they [the disciples] UNDERSTOOD NOT this saying, and it was HID from them…" (Luke 9:45).

What was it that Christ’s disciples and apostles understood not? Surely they understood His spiritual teachings, did they not? What is it that they "…understood NOT" about Jesus’ sayings? Truth number 3 will reveal this shocking truth to us.

That Jesus hid the meaning of his teachings from the masses, we have clearly been told already in Truth #2. But now I am going to show you something even more profound. Most in fact, will not believe the Scriptures before their own eyes.

The King James "parables" to the masses and the "proverbs" to the Apostles is translated from the very same Greek word:

Both "parable" and "proverb" are translated from the Greek— G3850 parabole par-ab-ol-ay' From G3846; a similitude ("parable"), that is, (symbolically) fictitious narrative (of common life conveying a moral), apoth gm or adage: - comparison, figure, parable, proverb.

This is really childish that I should even have to explain to Christians that a "parabolay" really is a "FICTITIOUS narrative, and therefore is not a literal story at all. Oh what religion has done to otherwise perfectly sane minds.

Just for the record, here are just a few of the definitions of "fictitious" from my dictionary: "fictitious, adj, artificial, feigned, fiction, imaginary, syn, false, fabrication, deception, incredible [unbelievable], impossibility, nonexistent, invented, distortion of historical facts" etc., etc., etc. From: Merriam Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary, Eleventh Edition, page 465.

How many reading this paper will now believe and concede that parables are not literally true stories? Virtually none. As I have said for a long time now: "Christendom is a religion of contradictions and square circles." And they love to have it so.

That Jesus taught the multitudes including the Scribes and Pharisees in "parables" [parabolay] which means: "FICTITIOUS narratives," is stated numerous times in the Scriptures. And clearly the multitudes along with the Scribes and Pharisees did not understand any of it.

Actually the Bible as a whole is one giant parable. Tis true, but I don’t have time to go into that right now.

And now for the shocker of shockers: Ask any Christian and he will tell you: "Jesus taught His disciples in "plain, literal, simple language." Maybe the multitudes, the masses, the Scribes and the Pharisees, didn’t understand Christ’s teachings, but surely the Apostles understood His teachings. Oh really? And do we have chapter and verse on that? Do we have two witnesses on that? No we don’t because it isn’t true.

Here’s how Jesus taught His own disciples, even in private:

"These things have I spoken unto you in PROVERBS: but the time comes [not yet, but in the future] when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall show you PLAINLY of the Father" (John 16:25).

By Jesus’ own admission, He didn’t teach or speak to even His Own apostles "plainly."

Now for a little humor: After Jesus spoke these words to His apostles He explains how He came out from the Father into the world and that He would again leave this world and that He would then plainly make known to them the Father. Not wanting to admit to their total ignorance of what Jesus was saying:

"His disciples said unto Him, Lo NOW SPEAK YOU PLAINLY, AND SPEAK NO PROVERB. Now ARE WE SURE THAT You know all things, and need not that any man should ask You: by this we believe that You came forth from God" (John 16:29-30).

Jesus responded: "Oh really?" Well, those are not His exact words (that is what I would have said). Jesus responded: "DO you NOW believe?" (Verse 31). Of course they didn’t. They had not a clue as to what Jesus was spiritually saying.

The word for "plainly" is taken from the Greek—G3954 a parrhe�sia par-rhay-see'-ah From G3956 and a derivative of G4483; all out spokenness, that is, frankness, bluntness, publicity; by implication assurance: - bold (X -ly, -ness, -ness of speech), confidence, X freely, X openly, X plainly (-ness).

So Jesus promised that at some time in the future He would speak to them no longer in proverbs, but "plainly"—frankness, bluntness, assurance, confidently, feely, openly. Hence His "proverbs" were NOT, frank, blunt, assured, confident, free, open, and plain! No wonder the disciples and even the Apostles "understood not" the teachings of Jesus Christ. Do we have any "witnesses" or "spiritual matches" to that effect? Many:

"And when He was alone, they that were about Him with the twelve asked of Him [and why did they ‘ask Him?’ because they did not know or understand His parables] the parable… And he said unto them, Know you NOT this parable? [Why of course they did not know this parable] and how then will ye know all parables?" (Mark 4:10 & 13).

To know "all parables," they needed to know "this parable." But since they clearly and admittedly did not know "this parable," neither did they know any of the parables. The Apostles of Jesus Christ followed Jesus for three and one half years, and never understood the parables, even though they understood certain principles contained in a few parables.

The multitudes did not understand Jesus’ parables; the Scribes and Pharisees did not understand Jesus’ parables; the hundreds of disciples did not understand Jesus’ parables, and as unbelievable as it may sound, not even the APOSTLES understood Jesus’ parables. Now get ready for another shock:

Not only did none of the above including the Apostles themselves, understand any of Jesus’ parables, but they did not understand the parables after Jesus EXPLAINED the parables! And how is such a thing even possible? Well, get ready for an even greater shock:

The reason they didn’t understand the parables even after Jesus explained them, is because Jesus explained His parables WITH ANOTHER PARABLE! That’s right, Jesus explained the parables that the Apostles themselves didn’t understand, by another parable, which they also did not understand.

In Matt. 13:10, we read, "And the disciples came, and said unto Him, Why speak you unto them in parables?" In verse 11 Jesus said it is given to His disciples to understand (but He didn’t say WHEN it was given for them to understand), and then in verse 12 Jesus says:

"For whosoever has, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever has not, from him shall be taken away even that he has."

In other words, another parable. Jesus explained the first parable that they didn’t understand with another parable, which they did not understand.

A little later:

"Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house, and His disciples came unto Him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. He answered and said unto them, He that sows the good seed is the Son of man: the field is the world…,"

Etc., etc., which is nothing more than yet another parable to explain a previous parable.

Jesus does not explain "the children of the kingdom," "the children of the wicked one," "the devil," "the reaper angels," "the end of the world," "The Son of man," "furnace of fire," "the kingdom of their Father," anymore than He explained what the first version of the parable was, and therefore, He had to add this to the end of His explanation: "Who has ears to hear, let him hear." But none there had "ears to ear," as we shall now see conclusively proven.

After several more parables:

"Jesus said unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, YEA, Lord" (Matt. 13:51).

They understood nothing.

In chapter 15 we read:

"And He called the multitude, and said unto them, hear, and understand" (Matt. 15:10).

And He gives them another parable. Then Peter questions this parable,

"Then answered Peter and said unto Him, Declare unto US this parable. And Jesus said, Are ye ALSO yet without understanding? Do NOT ye yet understand…?" (Verses 15, 16, 17a).

Yes, the multitudes and the disciples "also" were without understanding.

In the next chapter we read this:

"Then Jesus said unto them [His disciples], Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees. And they reasoned among themselves, Saying, It is because we have taken no bread. Which when Jesus perceived, He said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves because he have brought no bread? Do ye NOT YET UNDERSTAND; How is it that you DO NOT UNDERSTAND?" (Matt. 16:6-9a & 11).

Then in verse 11 it says they understood that Jesus meant the "doctrines" of the Pharisees, but they still didn’t know what the doctrines of the Pharisees were.

"And He [Jesus] said unto them [His disciples], How is it that YE DO NOT UNDERSTAND?" (Mark 8:21).

"But THEY UNDERSTOOD NOT that saying, and were afraid to ask Him" (Mark 9:32).

Jesus said unto His disciples:

"Let these sayings sink down into your ears… But THEY UNDERSTOOD NOT this saying, and it was HID from them, that they perceived it NOT; and they feared to ask Him of that saying" (Luke 9:44-45).

"These things UNDERSTOOD NOT His disciples at the first: but when Jesus was glorified [after His resurrection] then remembered they that these things were written of Him…" (John 12:16).

Three and one half years Jesus taught His disciples. Three and one half years they heard Him teach in the synagogues hundreds of times. Yet, how much did they truly understand?

"Then He took unto Him the twelve, and said unto them. Behold we go up to Jerusalem, and ALL THINGS that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished… and THEY UNDERSTOOD NONE of these things: and this saying was HID from them, NEITHER KNEW they the things which were spoken" (Luke 18:31-34).

How many things written in the prophets concerning the life, ministry, death and resurrection of Jesus did the disciples understand? "NONE."

At Jesus’ last meeting after His resurrection with His apostles we read:

"And He said unto them, These are the words which I spoke unto you while I was yet with you [words which they never understood] that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses in the prophets, and in the Psalms, concerning Me [in other words, the entire Hebrew Scriptures]. Then [When? ‘THEN.’ Not during their three and one half years of learning at His feet? NO, ‘then’] opened He their understanding, that they might understand the Scriptures [ALL of the Scriptures]" (Luke 24:44-45).

Why did Jesus reveal His message, His gospel, His kingdom, His word to so very few people? Christ’s answer is much harder for most to believe than the parables themselves:

"And the disciples came, and said unto Him, WHY speak You unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven [not at that precise time, but eventually, after His resurrection] but to them it is not given [not then OR later]. For whosoever has, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever has not, from him shall be taken away even that he has [another parable answers the reason for parables]. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand [here Jesus gives us a parable within a riddle].

"And in them [and in all future generations down through the centuries, save a very small elect few] is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah, which says, By hearing you shall hear, and shall not understand, and seeing you shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people’s heart [the people’s heart in Isaiah’s day, Christ’s day, through the generations, and in our day] is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should HEAL them [SAVE them].

"But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. For verily I say unto you, that many prophets and righteous men [all the patriarchs of the Old Testament] have desired to see those things which you see, and have NOT seen them, and to hear those things which you hear, and have NOT heard them" (Matt. 13:10-17).

I doubt that many of my readers are comprehending the marvelous truths contained in the above passages. The prophets THEMSELVES (even Isaiah himself), desired to see these things, but did NOT see them. All of the Apostles and New Testament writers understood that the patriarchs of old including the prophets themselves, did not understand their own prophesies, therefore they were not converted, and they are not saved. These things are for those who come after Christ, not before:

"Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto YOU [not unto them!]: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the suffering of Christ, and the glory that should follow [not come BEFORE, in their day and time].

"Unto whom it was revealed, that NOT unto themselves, but unto US they did minister [‘for OUR admonition upon whom the ends of the ages are come, I Cor. 10:11] the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Spirit sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto YOU at the revelation of Jesus Christ" (I Pet. 1:10-13).

Therefore I repeat once more:

"And these all [all the saints and all the prophets, Ver. 32], having obtained a good report through faith, received NOT the promise: God having provided some better thing FOR US, that they without US should NOT be made perfect [be saved]" (Heb. 11:39-40).


These and many more Scriptures prove the Church’s teaching that people who die unsaved will never be saved, is a damnable heresy. Until you concede in your heart that neither the parables nor the interpretation of the parables are literal, you will know no more of the plan of God and the Gospel of Jesus Christ than the Apostles did before they were converted and had God’s Holy Spirit.

http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm
« Last Edit: May 25, 2016, 11:23:10 PM by lilitalienboi16 »
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."
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