> General Discussions
Luke 23:43
Dennis Vogel:
Remember, you are dealing with a translation. Here are some KJV with the comma after to day. First quote by Jesus.
Luk 13:33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.
Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
It's like saying "I'm telling you now" - Same as saying "I'm telling you today"
willemv:
Shifting the comma seems to be a bit of a lame solution because then there is no real sense in using the word,it becomes sort of meaningless that is of course if the word was meant to mean "to-day " as we understand it. The JW's have shifted the comma in their bible as you probably know. In 2 Cor 12 :2-4 we read the words "the third heaven" and "paradise" having the same meaning. Could it be that as Christ and the thief were both dying that day, that Christ meant the resurrection , as while the thief was dead he would have no recollection of the period of time he was dead ?
Wim
Dennis Vogel:
--- Quote from: willemv on March 23, 2016, 05:15:19 PM ---Shifting the comma seems to be a bit of a lame solution because then there is no real sense in using the word,it becomes sort of meaningless that is of course if the word was meant to mean "to-day " as we understand it. The JW's have shifted the comma in their bible as you probably know. In 2 Cor 12 :2-4 we read the words "the third heaven" and "paradise" having the same meaning. Could it be that as Christ and the thief were both dying that day, that Christ meant the resurrection , as while the thief was dead he would have no recollection of the period of time he was dead ?
Wim
--- End quote ---
The thieves will eventually be in paradise like all humans but they are not the elect.
There is no sense of time while you are dead. There is nothing.
Dave in Tenn:
The main point is that this 'verse' is not it's own interpretation either. Other 'rules' apply as well, as the thief was NOT a hand-picked disciple. There are scores of 'verses' which clearly tell us what the state of the dead is like. Scores of 'verses' which talk about the 'need' for resurrection, and it being our only hope. Jesus did not contradict Himself on the cross.
The thief asked to be remembered when Jesus came into His kingdom. First, how did the thief know Jesus HAD a Kingdom? Second, what did he know about this Kingdom. Third, what did he THINK he knew about this Kingdom. There's something about the request itself that causes me to think 'deeper' than the preachers I've heard. Why should I think that the thief had the same theological understanding as most Christian theologians who take this to mean 'heaven'?
Jesus is telling Him something true, just as He told His disciples on the many, many, many occasions they asked about His Kingdom and he answered and/or taught with parables.
Jesus' answer doesn't address the Thief's request in the way the thief may have been hoping or expecting--no matter where you put the comma. If somebody were to ask ME to remember her when I saw the moon, it would be perfectly rational to answer her with a statement that says I will remember her today, and not wait until I saw the moon. (comma option 1). Then remember her (again) when I saw the moon, whether I told her I would or not. (comma option 1 with 'scriptural witnesses'). It would also be perfectly rational to answer her, that right now I am telling her I will remember her when I see the moon (comma option 2).
Porter:
Could also be one of those things intended to trip up "the many" a lot like Jesus' parables do. They don't need a second witness.
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