As time goes on Im starting to realize God uses my sins not against me but more so to teach me through chastisement which is making me into the image of God.
That is something I never felt when I was apart of Christendom, then I was afraid of God because of my sinful nature....
It's wonderful to know the truth for once in my life and knowing the truth explains why life on earth is as it is.
Warning wall of text incoming. TLDR; at the bottom
Rick, I've noticed a few of your posts have an common theme where it seems like your trying to find a way to be ok with your sins. If so I gotta admit that I've been there and done that! I agree we are "sinning machines" as Ray put it, but those being called and chosen must "just stop" also as Ray put it. True there is much wickedness, sin and evil in the world just as God intended, but God wills a few not to be like the world.
I also agree we will not burn in some pagan torture chamber "for ever and ever" for our lifetime of sins for no redeeming purpose, but there will be vengeance and wrath for the ungodly if I understand correctly. I personally wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of either of those (as it aint gonna be no picnic
), even though I know the eventual salvation of all is an sure thing after all is said and done. Not saying do the right thing out of fear, but I don't think the "judgment and fiery indignation" of God should be ignored or minimized as I have seen those who do believe in universal salvation attempt to do.
Having said all that, please don't take this as me accusing you (or anyone else) of wrong doing or what ever. I always consider I'm just totally not getting it, as so often is the case. This is all just as much of an learning process for me too, and I'm a slow learner
I will admit I'm wrong and apologize if I'm found mistaken for what I'm about to say. It may just be an projection on my part based on my own personal experience. So here I go as I open myself up to you all. Must admit this makes me uncomfortable. Ugh so many "I's" and "me's" in that lol.
Based on what you said in the quotes above, it seems like you are saying it's ok that you sin so you can be chastised and be made into the image of God. Your tired of being afraid of God because of your sins and probably tired of feeling guilty. It just may be you are trying to stop sinning, and by the grace of God, have been successful to some degree. In that case you truly do have nothing to fear in a sense. But for those who continue on in sinfulness, they actually do have something to fear, at least that is how I see it at this time.
Consider what Paul had to say on the subject of grace, sin and judgment.
Rom 3:5 Doesn't the fact that we are wrong prove more clearly that God is right? Then what can we say? Can we say that God is not fair when he brings his anger down on us? As you can tell, I am just using human ways of thinking.
Rom 3:6 God is certainly fair! If he weren't, how could he judge the world?
Rom 3:7 Someone might argue, "When I lie, it becomes clearer that God is truthful. It makes his glory shine more brightly. Why then does he find me guilty of sin?"
Rom 3:8 Why not say, "Let's do evil things so that good things will happen"? Some people actually lie by reporting that this is what we say. They are the ones who should be found guilty.
Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Rom 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid.
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?Keep in mind that grace and judgment IS chastisement.
http://www.bible-truths.com/lake3.htmlWHEN GRACE IS A VERB
Grace means favor, a gift, to be cheerful, well, happy, graciously, freely, deliverance from danger, and a dozen other benevolent qualities of peace, joy, goodness, and salvation. It is one of those truly wonderful words of blessing. But just how does it operate in "the real world" as we say? A definition does not tell us everything about a word. We can, likewise, define "love" as, a deep, tender feeling of affection. But does that definition tell us how love actually functions?
We learned that "...when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord" (I Cor. 11:32).
Chastening defines how it is that God judges us. Now then, we are about to learn one of the most remarkable spiritual truths in the whole Bible:
<blockquote> "For the grace of God that brings salvation hath appeared to all men , teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world [eon or age]" (Titus 2:11-12).
</blockquote> Here then is the remarkable parallel between God’s judgment and His grace:
God "judges" us by "chastening" us! (I Cor. 11:32) | "chasten," Greek: ‘paideuo’ #3811 |
God "graces" us by "teaching" us! (Titus 2:12) | "teaching," Greek: ‘paideuo’ #3811 |
WOW! Do you even begin to understand what you have just read? Whether God "JUDGES" us (and later the wicked world), or "GRACES" us, He does it THE SAME WAY!!
"Judging" is CHASTENING (Strong’s #3811), and "gracing" is CHASTENING (Strong’s #3811). It is the SAME WORD!
"Grace" is not a stagnant feel-good noun -- it is also a verb -- that is, it does something; it accomplishes something; it produces something of great value in the believer.
"Teaching" accomplishes something essential in making man into God’s very image.
The next verse tells us what it "teaches" us: "denying ungodliness and worldly lusts... living soberly, righteously, and godly!" Just the words "living godly" will cover every single thing that God EVER ASKS OF US -- EVERYTHING. "Living GODLY" covers every possible act of faith, love, and obedience that anyone could ever conceive of.
When God uses the SAME WORD to describe something that He wishes to accomplish, it behooves us to study deeply what that word means, especially when that word has to do with the very destiny of all peoples who have ever lived.
The subject of I Cor. 11:32 is JUDGING.
The subject of Titus 2:11 is GRACE AND SALVATION.
HOW does God "judge" us? BY CHASTENING (#3811, paideuo)!.
HOW does God's "grace and save" us? BY CHASTENING (#3811, paideuo)!
God JUDGES by chastening (I Cor. 11:32), and God GRACES by chastening (Titus 2:11).
By GRACE GOD JUDGES US and by JUDGING GOD GRACES US!
Gracing us by means of chastening, TEACHES US TO LIVE GODLY and brings salvation. Judging us by means of chastening, also TEACHES US TO LIVE GODLY and brings salvation!
-------------------------------------Me personally, I still have quite a bit to overcome, but by the grace and faith given me I have a lot of hope that in this lifetime Jesus will finish the work He started. I hate my sins, and I'm not ok with them. All the glory is God's, who reveals them to me, causing me to feel guilty enough to hate them, and only by His goodness and mercy leading me to repent of them.
True that our sins are as scarlet that will be made white as wool, only
IF we have a reverent fear that causes us to love and obey Him.
Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
Isa 1:19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:
Isa 1:20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
Psa 103:9 He will not always chide: neither will he keep his anger for ever.
Psa 103:10 He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.
Psa 103:11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.
Psa 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
Psa 103:13 Like as a father pitieth his children, so the LORD pitieth them that fear him.
Serious question, is it so wrong to "fear" the Lord? It's not my point to scare anyone (as if I could), but maybe I just don't get what it means to fear God in a healthy manner if such a thing is even possible. Is it only a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God later? Or now also? I admit that I sometimes fear what God will do to me if I dont obey. Just dont know if that is right. It's certainly not the only motivator that helps me do the right thing though.
TLDR;
Punishment, judgment, fiery indignation and wrath are all a very real threat to the wicked. They will feel it and be afraid I'm sure. Maybe they will be afraid because they dont know what God will do or they assume the worst possible thing as His wrath is on them. The called and chosen have fear or respect for God because they actually do know what He can do and what He is about.
Something I've never forgotten that Ray said and something I try to live by.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,11521.0.html"Therefore, we should be doing right, not just to avoid wrath or to receive a reward, but rather because doing good to others IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO."----------------Again this is not me picking on you Rick, I genuinely want to learn and this is just to show some of the things I think a lot about. You bring out some good questions and points that make me think about how it relates to me. So thanks for that.
Peace and grace to us all.