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Does God really cause all things ?

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rick:
I know Ray said that Christendom is always trying to get God off the hook.

Below is an excerpt from Rays paper from free will part B






I could go on and on like this for a hundred pages. I could go through the entire Bible proving that all is of God, not of man’s will. It is always God; it is never man’s will that is the first cause of all things. Nowhere in the entirety of the Bible is there anything suggesting that man has a "free will." Man’s will is not free. Man has a will, but it is not free from the causes that make it do what it does.

According to Ray , God is the first cause of all things and I believe Ray when he said he could do a hundred pages on this subject and can show us from the entirety of the bible.

So according to Rays teaching as I understand it, what I'm getting is if God wants person A to murder person B it's going to happen but I know God does not sin and cannot be tempted to sin.

However person A acted on his / her circumstances and murdered person B which God caused to begin with.

Does person A do this thing after being caused to do this thing because he / she is to spiritual weak not to do it or because Satan tempted person A to kill person B  even though God had ordered it through circumstances ?

God bless 

lareli:
Interesting question. Makes me wonder why God needs Satan at all... Ray said no one makes us sin, we are sinning machines by design. So if we are sinning machines and too spiritually weak to do good by design then why did God create the devil?

Without the serpent in the garden of Eden wouldn't Eve had eventually disobeyed Gods command anyway? Since she was created too weak to do good?

Dennis Vogel:
Just remember one of the reasons we are here: To learn about good and evil.

Kat:

When I think of God the Father knowing He is the source of all things and the means by which all things continue to exist, this tells me what His sovereignty is... He has absolutely no limit, none. That I believe is what "first cause" means... He is THE SOURCE of everything and by/through the Son He brought about this creation to be exactly as it is, meaning everything is operating precisely as He designed it to be. That's the law of cause and effect that God the Father has put into effect, as well as all the other laws that makes everything function as it does.

So all the evil that's in this world was by His original design, our weakness to the lusts of the flesh, Satan as His adversary, Everything is exactly according to His plan to bring about the results we see happening here. He knows, down to the most minute detail of what everything will be, before it happens, "knowing the end from the beginning." It's all according to what He has already determined it would be. So He does not need to now personally bring about any of the evil in this world, He has already designed (first cause) every single thing to be as it is, so everything turns out as He knew it would.

As Dennis said, one of the reasons we are here: To learn about good and evil. This life is for a learning experience, what we actually feel with our senses hard wire into our brains a lasting impression/knowledge of whatever is was that happened, something that we will not soon forget. So we have to taste/experience the fruit of both good and evil to know/learn these things.

This first is from the Trinity article and then an email.
 
http://bible-truths.com/trinity.html -----------------------------

This Scripture tells us that "ALL IS OUT OF" GOD (the FATHER).

And this Scripture tells us that "ALL IS THROUGH" Jesus Christ.

God the Father is the first cause of all and ALL IS OUT GOD, even Jesus Christ is "OUT of God."

"...I [Jesus] came OUT from God. I CAME OUT FROM the FATHER..." (John 16:27-28).


http://www.forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2477.0.html ----

"Free Will" does not exist because it is a physiologicaly impossibility and the Scriptures CONDEMN any such vanity-crazed idea.  Have you ever heard of the law of "cause and effect"?  It means for every effect there is a CAUSE.  This IS scientific. Therefore all of your thoughts and actions ARE CAUSED by something. Usually something that you are not even aware of, but being caused nonetheless.  This "cause" is what is responsible for your thoughts and actions. And once something is "caused" to happen, it could not have been otherwise.
 
God is the FIRST CAUSE of all law and matter.  I use the Scriptures to prove to Christians that they have no free will, as they claim to actually believe the Scriptures.  I would not use the Scriptures to prove to an athiestic evolutionary scientist that he has no free will. There I would use scientific law.
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mercy, peace and love
Kat

Jeff:
Kat & Dennis (or anyone),

"As Dennis said, one of the reasons we are here: To learn about good and evil."

I don't mean this at all, frivolously.

Evil is just pouring out of humanity like a broken dam.

If I were to say "Only God is good", the rest is of Satan, would that be close to being accurate?  We live in this evil time/place and the only contrast is between God and our own existence.

I think we've got the evil down pretty good, so wouldn't it be more that we're here to learn that only God is good?

I don't know if that makes any sense.

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