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Author Topic: The Ages  (Read 4303 times)

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lareli

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The Ages
« on: May 04, 2016, 07:42:34 PM »

I was reading some of the emails and had a question... Here's what I read,

You have NOT committed the unpardonable sin against the Holy Spirit. Besides, those who DO, will also be SAVED! Yes they will! Not in this age, or the millennial age to follow, but at the resurrection of judgment, even those who have sinned against the Holy Spirit will be saved. There is no such thing as an "unforgivable sin". The ones that Christ said committed this sin, will not be pardon (and come up in the first resurrection), but they will be forgiven in the resurrection of judgment and be saved.

My question is how many ages are there and what is the order? What happens or what are the hallmarks, so to speak, of each age? When is the lake of fire and for how long is it? Will the length of time in the lake be different for everyone? What happens during the millennial reign of Christ?

I know that most of these questions can't be answered completely but what are your thoughts?

Thanks


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Rick

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Re: The Ages
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2016, 09:10:04 PM »

My thoughts on your question is what Ray said about the Hebrew manuscripts, there is no such word as eternity in them so all we have left is age, and age after age.

That's my take on it, also Christ will reign untill all people have been saved, how many ages that will take I know not.

God bless.



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indianabob

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Re: The Ages
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2016, 03:16:59 AM »

Largeli and Rick,

I cannot be specific because I don't know. So I'm basing my thoughts on what we read in the whole Bible about God's character and how God has dealt with people over the previous ages..

My estimate of future events is that when the lord Jesus returns he will quickly begin to take charge, from a spiritual perspective, of the living , flesh and blood population that remains from the previous age. We can guess how that might be by the way God dealt with the children of Abraham, the twelve tribes or the so called children of promise that came later when Israel was under a theological government and was intended to be a living example of how to live in peace.
So then I suppose that the coming age will have flesh and blood humans continuing their lives much the same as they did in ages past. The main difference could be that there will be proper appointed leadership rather than having every man do what seemed right to themselves as in the past. War will be prevented, weapons of war will not be produced even though knowledge of how to produce them may exist, there will be rain in due season, pollution will not be generated, the earth will produce its bounty and people will be guaranteed a relatively safe existence with family values. People will I think still be sinners who sin but they will gradually know the truth about God's plan and that there is spiritual help for all of their emotional needs.
People will still have dreams and aspirations and a desire to explore and build and exercise their innate curiosity about the world and the Universe at large. We should have one pure language so that there will be no need for translations or miscommunication between people.
What we don't know is how long the transition may take. We just know that the Lord God is very patient and long suffering and loving.
Will the lord Jesus teach righteousness for a person's whole life? Will life spans increase? Will supernatural healing be available to those who seek it.
What we do know from scripture is that God's plan will be completed and we don't need to take unusual concern for ourselves or our children.
So just imagine a society without worry or having to determine which false church to attend and which incompetent politician to elect.

I do presume that people will be allowed to try their own ideas and make mistakes with consequences, I don't think we will be micro managed by our lord Jesus. So if you want to climb a mountain your adventure will not be prevented and if you fall and break a leg, natural healing will still be available. Maybe even supernatural healing if circumstances allow.

Personally I'm looking forward to learning how life will be for my unconverted children and relatives and to see all their hurts healed and meeting our ancestors from centuries past.

So keep a good thought, Indiana Bob
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Rick

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Re: The Ages
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2016, 10:08:57 AM »

Hi Bob,

I don't presume to know what the next age will be like, I do know when His judgements are in the earth all will be learning righteousness and when Christ is done its all going to be very good.

When Christ hands the keys to the kingdom of man over to the Father and all are brought into the kingdom of God how awesome will thing's be then ? I can't even imagine but I pray for that and trust God it's going to be very good for all of Gods creation.

I hope Christ comes back before I get out of work today.


God bless.
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Kat

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Re: The Ages
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2016, 11:53:00 AM »

 
Hi largeli, here is the email you were referring to... note that it is on the BT site's front page meaning it was before the list of email on the forum which was started in 2006.

http://bible-truths.com/emails.html ------------

Your feelings are not that different from most people. Most, however, are not honest enough to admit they have such feelings.  Paul says that, "the carnal (natural fleshly) mind is enmity against God; it is not subject to the laws of God, neither is it able" (Rom. 8:7).

When God opens your understanding that there is as much evil in YOU as there is in the world, then you will begin to understand this scripture. EVERYONE sins, and EVERYONE is LOST before he can be SAVED!

You have NOT committed the unpardonable sin against the Holy Spirit. Besides, those who DO, will also be SAVED! Yes they will! Not in this age, or the millennial age to follow, but at the resurrection of judgment, even those who have sinned against the Holy Spirit will be saved. There is no such thing as an "unforgivable sin". The ones that Christ said committed this sin, will not be pardon (and come up in the first resurrection), but they will be forgiven in the resurrection of judgment and be saved.

God will deliver all creation from all evil. It is only here temporarily. It serves a needful purpose.
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Now there is a Scripture in Ravelation that does cause confusion about the age after this one, but it is determined to be spurious and not in the original manuscripts by Tischendorf ( http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,6638.0.html ), so note that part of the verse was added sometimes later. It was not until the Mobile Conference 2007 'HOW WE GOT THE BIBLE' that Ray brings this out and here is where he discusses it.

http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=5815.20 ---

Now for the last few years I’ve been looking at all these things, about the return of Christ, the millennium and the kingdom and all these things. I haven’t written to much about that yet. You know why? Because I don’t understand it! But now I’m getting there and here is a Scripture in Revelation.

Rev 20:2  And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him a thousand years.
v. 3  And he cast him into the bottomless pit (abyss), and shut him up and set a seal on him, that he should deceive the nations no more until the thousand years should be fulfilled. And after that he must be loosed a little season.

That verse gives me a problem, it would take a long time to explain why. Believe me most people that teach and write books on these prophecies, don’t have a clue. Not only do they not have the answers, they don’t even know what the problems are.   
But these verses here;

Rev 20:4  …And they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
v. 5  But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Both of these verses can not be true, there is a problem here. I racked my brain, in my spare time, but I kept it in the back of my mind for a long time. There is a problem, that won’t work and I can’t make it work. It doesn’t fit, there is no way to make this thing fit. Then some months ago, now I know why it, “But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished” won’t fit. It’s not Scripture! Tischendorf has it right there.

Rev. 20:5  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished...

It’s not in the Sinaiticus. So I said, okay now we’re moving again. We’re a little closer to the Truth. 
-------------------------------------------------------------

So we can figure we are presently in the church age, that's now when "the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God" (1 Peter 4:17). I won't try and speculate on the number of ages there have been before now. The next age begins when Christ returns and resurrects His elect who are given 'thrones,' meaning authority and power to judge.

Rev 20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Rev 20:5  But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished (spurious). This is the first resurrection.

Rev 3:21  To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

Dan 7:18  But the saints of the Most High shall receive the kingdom, and possess the kingdom forever (for the age), even forever and ever (for the age of the ages).'

Rev 2:25  Nevertheless that which ye have, hold fast till I come.
v. 26  And he that overcometh, and he that keepeth My works unto the end, to him will I give authority over the nations:

Rev 5:10  And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth."

All those Scripture show that the elect will reign and rule and judge the nations under Christ, which is the "great white throne" when the world is judged, "anyone not found written in the Book of Life."

Rev 20:11  Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.
v. 12  And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
v. 13  The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.
v. 14  Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
v. 15  And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

There is a Scripture that Christ says some will not be forgiven in that next age of the great white throne judgement of the world.

Matt 12:32  Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

So we can only assume there will be an age after the next age for further judgment for those to repent and be forgiven. Because we know every person that ever lived will eventually bow the knee to Christ in true worship and praise.

Php 2:9  Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,
v. 10  that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, (the dead, in their grave)
v. 11  and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Isa 45:22  "Look to Me, and be saved, All you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.
v. 23  I have sworn by Myself; The word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, And shall not return, That to Me every knee shall bow, Every tongue shall take an oath.
v. 24  He shall say, 'Surely in the LORD I have righteousness and strength. To Him men shall come, And all shall be ashamed Who are incensed against Him.

So that gives us 3 ages for certain that I can see in Scripture.

Here are some excerpts from an article where Ray speaks on 'Is "Everlasting" Scriptural?'

http://bible-truths.com/aeonion.htm ------------------

The next great event in prophecy is not eternity, but rather the END of this eon and the BEGINNING of the next—the one in which the very elect will reign with Christ.
There is no sense in jumping into eternity when as yet, we have numerous ages to yet live and administer God’s government and His Great Judgment. And so, what is not yet seen, is "eonian" (pertaining to the eons), and not "eternity" as you and the King James suggests in this verse.

Our glorious reign with Christ on the earth over the nations is for the AGES, not for eternity. The reign of Christ COMES TO AND END, just as aionios comes to an end (I Cor 15:25-26).

the glory that will be ours IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD on this earth ruling and reign with Christ THROUGH THE AGES, not for eternity. Not even Christ rules as "King" for eternity. it means eonians—pertaining to the oncoming AGES.
v
The concept of "eternity" is foreign to the Holy Scriptures. There is virtually nothing that is outside of the time periods known asaions. There are just a couple of hints regarding life beyond the ages of time.
v
The chosen elect saints CAN TOO rule and reign with Christ for thousands of years (eons/ages) as a special reward from God. Why can’t they? They are given immortality SO THAT THEY CAN live and not die during the thousands of years with Christ. They, along with Christ, bring about the consummation of the ages when ALL ENEMIES are subjected and death itself is abolished.
v
Paul also speaks of a time in which God will be "ALL in all." That is the extent to which the Scriptures even hint of eternity or anything beyond the ages of time.
v
The reign of Jesus is for the "eons of the eons." First it behooves us to know that this phrase means. They are specific eons of time. This phrase does not heap eons upon eons for all eternity, hence "everlasting eons" or any other such unscriptural nonsense. But the point to be made is, what happens when the consummation of all the ages [I Cor 10:11] arrives? Let’s ask the Scriptures:

"Then comes the END [the ‘end’ of WHAT? The end of life? The end of Christ? NO], when He [Jesus] shall have delivered up the kingdom of God, even the Father; when He shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. [His reigning has fully and completely accomplished its purpose. THEN what?] For He [Jesus] must reign, TILL [Webster’s ‘till, until, up to the time…’] He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death" (I Cor. 15:25-26).
v
2Cor 4:18  While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

II Cor. 4:18 is neither speaking of "deathless" or "everlasting," as you suggest. It is speaking of what is happening now, in our life of flesh, and what will happen during the ages of our reign with Christ in the kingdom of God. The things of this life, we SEE daily. The things pertaining to the Kingdom of God are as yet "NOT seen." Again, it is not even speaking of what is "visible" and "Invisible," but rather what is NOW SEEN as compared with things "eonian" and NOT YET SEEN, which when seen will not be temporary, but will last through whole eons of time. And all that is perfected through the Kingdom of God and the reign of Christ bringing all enemies into subjection, will last on PAST the eons, and will have NO END.
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Hope this helps.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
« Last Edit: May 05, 2016, 05:58:31 PM by Kat »
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lareli

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Re: The Ages
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2016, 12:56:39 PM »

Thanks folks..

What about the lake of fire? Does that take place during or after the millennial reign and what are your thoughts on its duration? I mean will people spend different amounts of time there depending on how their works are judged?

I know Christ said in a parable that one man may receive many blows and another receive few.. Also the reference He made in regards to someone paying every last cent before being released from prison... I assume Ghandi would owe less money to the king then say a serial killer..
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Kat

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Re: The Ages
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2016, 07:03:50 PM »

What about the lake of fire? Does that take place during or after the millennial reign and what are your thoughts on its duration? I mean will people spend different amounts of time there depending on how their works are judged?

I know Christ said in a parable that one man may receive many blows and another receive few.. Also the reference He made in regards to someone paying every last cent before being released from prison... I assume Ghandi would owe less money to the king then say a serial killer...

largeli, I think it is that spurious Scripture, Revelation 20:5 that has caused all the confusion about the millennium being something different from the great white throne judgment period... Ray believed they were the same after he understood that Scripture was spurious. Now the duration of the time period for the judgment of the world is only given figuratively, 1000 yrs, it will be as long as it take.

1Cor 15:25  For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.

The way I have come to think at the next age of judgment is to think how different the world will be when Christ is reigning, the world will no longer be an accommodating place for carnality and corruption to be the rule of the land. Christ and the elect will enforce the law of God without fail as is expressed in this verse.

Rev 19:15  Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 

Now I think of this verse in 2 ways, it means the new world will be a wonderful place for the righteous to live, but it will be a dreadful place for those who had lived according to wickedness. The wicked will be under constantly supervision, they will not be allowed to get away with any evil tendencies they have developed. The world will be in peace, but there are many people whose way of life in this age is totally contrary to that... obviously criminals and preachers of blasphemy, but there are mean/evil spirited people who have made life miserable for everybody around them, also think of career soldiers. There will be so many soldiers resurrected from past centuries who were warriors all their lives and only skills are for battle and killing. I really believe some of these people really like, even enjoy their reprobate/evil lifestyle... I mean lots of people are going to despise the new world, they will hate being forced to live upright lives, at first anyway. Think how much longer the judging process will take for people like that to change, repent, and be purged of all that wickedness, it could take a really long time.

Here is where Ray spoke about the spiritual nature of the sins of the flesh that must be eradicated now for the few, but everybody else in the next age.

http://bible-truths.com/lake16-A.html -----------------

Jesus plainly states (albeit in figurative language) that if one wants to avoid hell (he means gehenna there) fire, he must "CUT OFF his hands and feet and PLUCK OUT his eyes."

But our Lord’s words are not to be taken literally, as we have just demonstrated. Yet, that is what the Scripture literally says (Matt. 18:8-9). And as no one on earth does this, it is clear that no one on earth actually and factually believes that these words of Jesus are to be taken literally.
v
THE WORDS OF JESUS ARE NOT TO BE TAKEN LITERALLY. You are not to literally, cut off your feet or your hands or pluck out your eyes. The words of our Lord are figurative, symbolic language, which have to do with a higher spiritual truth, but have nothing to do with literal dismemberment of your physical body.

•It is what you sinfully touch with your hands and your mind that must be repented of in your HEART.

•It is where you sinfully walk with your feet and your mind that must be repented of in your HEART.

•It is what you sinfully lust after with your eyes and your mind that must be repented of in your HEART.

•It is the HEART that is, "Deceitful above all things and exceedingly wicked," not our eyes, hands and feet, (Jer. 17:9).

•It is out of our HEART that, "…proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies," not from our eyes, hands and feet, (Matt. 15:19).

we will NOT enter the Kingdom literally "lame and maimed" with missing hands, or missing feet, or missing eyes, but rather we will have spiritually amputated the lust and sin in our HEARTS. Those who do not meet this qualification in this life, will be brought into the Great White Throne/Lake of Fire Judgment were these sins will be eradicated, but not with physical, literal, eternal torturing fire, but through the "CONSUMING FIRE" of God’s Spirit and His "FLAMING MINISTERS" (Heb. 12:29 & Psalm 104:4).
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
« Last Edit: May 06, 2016, 08:25:46 PM by Kat »
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octoberose

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Re: The Ages
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2016, 01:52:56 AM »

"also think of career soldiers. There will be so many soldiers resurrected from past centuries who were warriors all their lives and only skills are for battle and killing. I really believe some of these people really like, even enjoy their reprobate/evil lifestyle."

Kat, do you know career soldiers? Because I have spent most of my adult life around them and they are more likely then most to hate killing. And you said "career soldier" as if it makes one bit of difference how long they serve. Because in an American army it is called the Service for a reason.  We don't need to  get into the weeds of violence in this thread, but I'm not sure why you pick on the soldier and not the immoral, the guys on the other side of the computer that says vile hateful things to each other, the powerful in churches that make life miserable for everyone else.  At least a soldier thinks he is defending someone- Romans 5- "For rarely will someone die for a just person--though for a good person perhaps someone might even dare to die. "

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indianabob

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Re: The Ages
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2016, 10:17:07 AM »

Hi Octoberrose,
Becoming a professional killer whether by choice in this century or by conscription in other eras is an emotional subject to discuss. I think we might learn some helpful facts if we approach the subject carefully.
As I understand it getting used to killing is somewhat like getting used to  abortion as an acceptable method of birth control.
So perhaps we could suspend the emotional approach to the discussion and focus on the human faults that lead to war and how humans are affected spiritually.

Kindly offered, indiana bob

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Kat

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Re: The Ages
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2016, 10:44:43 AM »


octoberose, I did say soldiers from 'past centuries,' it's not a very good comparison of today's high tech army with those from past and my comment was directed towards those times past, because battles were fought much different than today. Of course I've only read about the lives of those armies and battles, but those soldier learned the most proficient way to kill and they did so in hand to hand combat and some men seemed to thrive on the adrenaline rush from it all. There will be numerous men in the resurrection whose whole lives were lived going from one battle to the next.

War is a hostile conflict, in defending they usually must kill as well. A soldiers kills the enemy, but each side look at the other as the enemy to kill as well. Regardless of the reasons (both sides usually think their reasons are sound), but it causes death and destruction. Conquest of vast areas, sometimes involved wiping out the whole area of it's people, and we know of that from the Israelite's taking the promise land. That kind of thing was what gave the most famous generals in history their fame (read about Genghis Kahn and Julius Caesar).

What I was expressing was the vase differences that the next age will bring, all wars will cease, and all the wild excitement of war will be no more. But I was focusing on the huge number of people that will be in the resurrection that were warriors and did love and crave that kind of violent excitement. So all those men will have to learn new skills and live a peaceful life, something they are not used to and will not like. Now if they just were soldier with no violent tendencies they should get along well in the next age, it will be about the attitudes of the heart after all.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
« Last Edit: May 07, 2016, 11:26:52 AM by Kat »
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: The Ages
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2016, 09:10:43 PM »

I want to go back to the original questions and the thoughts that sprung from them.  I read this yesterday and thought of this thread.

From Lake 12--

WHAT SINS ARE TORMENTED IN THE LAKE OF FIRE?

Here are the character flaws and sins that need "tormenting" in the lake of fire:

"But the fearful [timid], and unbelievers, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers [paramours], and sorcerers [enchanters], and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death" (Rev. 21:8).

Were the Apostles of our Lord "idolaters?" No.

Were the Apostles of our Lord "sorcerers?" No.

Were the Apostles of our Lord "whoremongers?" No.

Were the Apostles of our Lord "murderers?" No.

Were the Apostles of our Lord "abominable?" No.

Were the Apostles of our Lord "unbelieving?" YES.

Were the Apostles of our Lord "fearful [timid]?" YES.

And were the Apostles of our Lord "all liars?" YES they were.

Is it absolutely necessary that even the "fearful and unbelieving" and all tellers of little white lies, must be cast into "TORMENT?" Yes … yes it is.

"And straightway [immediately] Jesus constrained [force, entreaty, threat, persuasion—not too dissimilar from being ‘cast into the lake of fire’] His disciples to get into a ship…" (Matt. 14:23).

At this time in Christ’s ministry, the apostles were still unconverted. It will shock most people to realize that Jesus went to the cross, never having converted a single disciple! They were not truly converted until the Day of Pentecost when they received the Holy Spirit of God WITHIN themselves. They were not, however, all, abominable, murderers, whoremongers, sorcerers, and idolaters. But they ALL possessed two or three of the character flaws mentioned in Rev. 21:8—they were all "fearful [timid] and unbelieving."

Jesus specifically points out these character flaws to them all by an ACTUAL EXPERIENCE! In other words, the disciples proved TO THEMSELVES that they were fearful, unbelieving, and liars: "…and they cried out for FEAR" (Matt. 14:26). And they all doubted that it was Jesus walking on the water, so Jesus both reprimanded and encouraged them:

"Be of good cheer; it is I; be NOT afraid… O you of little faith, wherefore did you DOUBT" (Vers. 17 & 31).

"And Jesus said unto them [His apostles], ALL YE shall be offended [turn against me, desert me, fall away, fall from your faith] because of Me this night…" (Mark 14:27).

And so we read that they were "tossed [TORMENTED] by the waves." They were being TRIED UNDER PRESSURE as when using a touchstone.

We have already proved that "the fire shall try every man’s work" in I Cor. 3:13 is a spiritual match with Rev. 20:13 & 15 where "they were judged every man according to their works … in the lake of fire" And in both cases the "fire" is God’s SPIRIT. God’s spirit burns spiritual character flaws out of the hearts of mankind in a similar way in which literal fire burns up and abolishes wood, straw, and stubble. And since we are the Body of Christ and we too are made "flames of fire," then we also judge the deeds of men’s hearts.


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"But the fearful [timid], and unbelievers, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers [paramours], and sorcerers [enchanters], and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death" (Rev. 21:8).

As Ray said, His disciples were not guilty of all of the above.  Yet they were guilty of some of the above.

If people are to be saved in the Lake of fire, and if Salvation is FROM something, not "spiritual" mustard smeared on us, what does salvation FROM each of the above entail?

What is salvation from timidity?  What is salvation from unbelief?  What is salvation for abomination?  What is salvation from the committing of murder?  What is salvation from whoremongering?  What is salvation from enchanting?  What is salvation from idolatry?  What is salvation from lying?

If the salvation (real and meaningful) of these "types" of people is accomplished, then what is salvation from the timidity of others?  From unbelievers?  From abomination?  From murderers?  From whoremongers?  From being enchanted?  From idol-worshippers?  From liars?

I think scripture gives us good "instruction" on how the Apostles overcame these evils within themselves through "gehenna fire" in the ways they needed to.  I reckon they had already BEEN saved from the other things by having never to have experienced them.  What came out of their "salvation" from these three things they WERE guilty of?

MAYBE, by seeing this example, we can "imagine" the way those guilty of the "other" sins are to be saved from them. 

I don't really have a point, except as encouragement and to build faith.  I just want to tuck this into the "discussion" for anybody who asks these kinds of questions, or would like to.     

Ray said Jesus' chosen twelve were unbelievers, timid and liars.  They were when He called them and they remained so until He came to dwell within them.   
« Last Edit: May 07, 2016, 09:13:13 PM by Dave in Tenn »
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Rick

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Re: The Ages
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2016, 11:05:32 PM »

Hi Dave,

According to Ray we all have the potential to be all these thing's, our acting on them would be according to our circumstances, Ray taught us if we had the same circumstances as Adolph we would of done the same thing.

All the evil I have seen in the world as much  as it turns my stomach is in me. That's what God is showing me.

Even though I have not physically murdered a person the potential is there in me to do such a thing, I understand now why one condemns themself when they pass judgement on those who do all these things.

I think perhaps for the first time even though I've read it a hundred times I understand the problem is not from without but from within, I am that beast Ray has spoken of, the problem with all these things I see in the world are within me.

It's shocking to me because I've always thought of myself as ok but God shows me I will be ok but now I'm far from ok.

You brought out some things for me to think about .

God bless.
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To every thing there is a season and a time to every purpose under the heaven.

Dave in Tenn

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Re: The Ages
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2016, 11:31:12 PM »

Could be the apostles didn't have this knowledge until after their conversion.  Beyond simply having the "potential", being a disciple of Christ means "Not committing murder" even in our hearts. 

But anyway, this is about the "next age".  Largeli asked, "How long?"  Well, how long did it take for Saul to be converted?  Then how long did it take for him to be thoroughly tried and tested?  I reckon that's how long the Lake of Fire will burn.     
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Rick

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Re: The Ages
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2016, 01:58:14 AM »

I don't have a clue as to the duration of time in the lake of fire, I know for us its going to be for the rest of our lives.

How long does it take God to give us all a new heart and our minds are no longer carnal ?

God bless.
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octoberose

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Re: The Ages
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2016, 03:27:24 AM »

The question I have is after thr return of Christ and the gathering of His own from the grave and from the living and the "1000 " year reign with Him - is everone else whi is on earth to learn righteousness? Even those who have already died?   It will be a very full earth.
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: The Ages
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2016, 12:24:15 PM »

The question I have is after thr return of Christ and the gathering of His own from the grave and from the living and the "1000 " year reign with Him - is everone else whi is on earth to learn righteousness? Even those who have already died?   It will be a very full earth.

Hello rose,

The 1000 year reign is synonymous with the age of judgement. It is the great white throne. It is in reigning on the thrones of the twelve tribes of Israel that we judge the world. A king judges from his throne. We are to be priests and kings to our God.

Revelation 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Luke 22:29-31
29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

1 Corinthians 6:2-3
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Obadiah 1:21 And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the Lord's.

The God who made the heavens and the earth, everything in them, is not limited by the very things He has created. Space for His family won't be an issue for Him. He is very wise and already knows exactly how all this will play out.

God bless,
Alex
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

lauriellen

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Re: The Ages
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2016, 05:04:49 PM »

I have really enjoyed reading this thread and am thankful to Kat for clarifying the spurious verse. It is with joy and relief that I learn that the 1000 year millennial reign is the same time period as the great white throne judgment. This would seem to agree with the statement of 'each man in his own order/class", as in perhaps a succession of resurrections during this time?... I do have a question about the 'little season' when satan is released to again wreak havoc among men. I wonder why, after learning righteousness and being judged, will people again be turned to sin? And what then? Will all who turn again to sin be consumed and die another physical death? Will they possibly go thru another judgment?
thanks, lauri
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Kat

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Re: The Ages
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2016, 07:49:23 PM »

I have really enjoyed reading this thread and am thankful to Kat for clarifying the spurious verse. It is with joy and relief that I learn that the 1000 year millennial reign is the same time period as the great white throne judgment. This would seem to agree with the statement of 'each man in his own order/class", as in perhaps a succession of resurrections during this time?... I do have a question about the 'little season' when satan is released to again wreak havoc among men. I wonder why, after learning righteousness and being judged, will people again be turned to sin? And what then? Will all who turn again to sin be consumed and die another physical death? Will they possibly go thru another judgment?
thanks, lauri

Hi lauri, I too am thinking the same thing as your comment "the statement of 'each man in his own order/class", as in perhaps a succession of resurrections during this time?." I believe the elect will be given great authority and power to rule in the next age, but certainly they will not be judging the everyday quarrels that arise among people. There could be many physical people put in positions to judge among the people and there is a good example of this with Moses, who had a need to assign people to serve under him.   

Deu 1:13  Choose for yourselves wise and discerning men, known to your tribes, and appoint them as your leaders.
v. 14  "You answered by saying that this plan is a good thing.
v. 15  So I chose leaders from your tribes, wise and respected men, and I appointed them over you—commanders of thousands, hundreds, fifties, and tens. (ISV)

So I have wondered if in the resurrection God will bring back the many righteous people first that have already proven from their past lifetime to be great rulers. Like you said maybe there will be a continued succession of resurrections, from the most righteous descending down, that could be one way to look at what Christ said "the first will be last, and the last first." That would also form a foundation of God's government on earth to deal with the more wicked as they came along... just my thoughts.

Rev 20:2  He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
v. 3  and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

One thing I've thought of is that in the next age their will be so many babies and young children resurrected that will only know about that that time in the next age of Christ's glorious reign and have no memory of this evil age... do all people need to be tried and tested? Is that the purpose for Satan being released? Those people would not stand a chance against the great deceiver, maybe that's what he for to tempt them into great sin?

Rev 20:7  Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison
v. 8  and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea.
v. 9  They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.

When Christ resurrects the dead, and "it is appointed for men to die once"(Heb 9:27) and Christ said in the next age there will be no more physical death (Rev 21:4). Now another thing is we know what God's fire does, it is for cleansing and purging. That great number of people that go up to do battle with the saints must really be deceived to think they have any chance... but God's plan will see to it that they are redeemed, just as the sinners of this world will be... again just my thoughts.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
« Last Edit: May 08, 2016, 10:03:30 PM by Kat »
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octoberose

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Re: The Ages
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2016, 07:31:33 PM »

Could you expond a little on the Lake of Fire as it relates to the 1000 years ? Is this just another word for the training in rightousness that will be happening in that time?
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Kat

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Re: The Ages
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2016, 09:11:57 PM »

Could you expond a little on the Lake of Fire as it relates to the 1000 years ? Is this just another word for the training in rightousness that will be happening in that time?

Hi octoberose, the 'lake' of fire is a metaphor that describes how Christ's judgments will completely cover the entire earth for the duration of the next age - 1000 years. And what does that number represent? Till Christ has finished judging the world.

1Cor 15:25  For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.

But generally speaking I think you are right... for some it is simply training, for others more of a purging will need to take place first and certainly even severe correcting if need be. I'm thinking for all things to be put right and justice to be done, every person's experiences at that time will be just as individual as their life here in this age has been. Everybody's character flaws need to be corrected by living right and learning from it... it will be a process of undoing and reshaping the understanding in the mind, that all the false ideas and delusions created.

Here is part of the article no. 12 'God Judges the World in a Pond.'

http://bible-truths.com/lake12.html --------------

We have already proved that "the fire shall try every man’s work" in I Cor. 3:13 is a spiritual match with Rev. 20:13 & 15 where "they were judged every man according to their works … in the lake of fire" And in both cases the "fire" is God’s SPIRIT. God’s spirit burns spiritual character flaws out of the hearts of mankind in a similar way in which literal fire burns up and abolishes wood, straw, and stubble. And since we are the Body of Christ and we too are made "flames of fire," then we also judge the deeds of men’s hearts.

CALMING THE RAGING WAVES OF THE SEA

What is the final outcome of a humanity that is likened to, "Raging Waves of the Sea?" Will they spew out their raging foam of hatred and wickedness forever? No, certainly not. There is a cure for every disease, a solution to every problem, a Saviour for every lost soul. The "raging waves of the sea" are not match for Him Who walks on water.

"And He arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, PEACE, BE STILL. And the wind ceased, and there was a GREAT CALM. And He said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? How is it that ye have no faith? [How is it that Christendom has NO FAITH?] And they feared exceedingly, and said one to another, What manner of Man is this, that even the WIND AND THE SEA OBEY HIM?" (Mark 4:39-41).

Has Jesus lost His touch? Do we think that Jesus no longer can make "the wind and the sea OBEY Him?"

"And the SEA gave up the dead [spiritually dead] which were in it [these spiritually dead are also called, "raging waves of the sea" who are "foaming out their own shame" Jude 13] …and they were judged every man according to their works… And whosoever was not found in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire" (Rev. 20:13 & 15).

Will these wicked "raging waves of the sea" continue foaming out their or shame for ALL ETERNITY, in a place of eternal torture? Or will Jesus once again walk on the waters and cause a "GREAT CALM" to come over all humanity?

The spiritual fire in the lake of fire is a powerful, powerful remedy for the sins of humanity, and this Fire from God will work a great work on the "raging waves of the sea." There is coming a great calm on all humanity:

"And I saw as it were a SEA OF GLASS mingled with FIRE [yes, the fire of God’s spirit is a necessary part of this ‘sea of glass’]: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass [ah, they too can now walk on water which is now smooth and calm as glass], having the harps of God"
 
All of the "raging and foaming" has been calmed SMOOTH AS GLASS by the fiery spirit of God. They now sing praises to God, symbolized by their harps! Jesus will yet calm the great sea of humanity. Be not deceived, the sea will yet "OBEY Him!"

(We will explain the symbols of "the beast," "his image," "his mark," "the number of his name," "the man of sin," "the two witnesses," "the second death," "the antichrist," etc., in upcoming installments of this series).

GOD’S MINISTERS ARE FLAMES OF FIRE

I showed you earlier that Jesus Christ is not only IN the lake of fire, He IS THE LAKE OF FIRE. He is the Divinity in this spiritual fire.

Ponder this:

Like Christ, we too are raised with a "SPIRITUAL body" (I Cor. 15:44).

We are in fact called, "the BODY of Christ" (Eph. 1:23).

We will literally "be LIKE Him [Christ]" (I John 3:2).

God will make us into "ministers [of] FLAMING FIRE" (Psalm 104:4).

We too then will be like our God, "a CONSUMING FIRE" (Heb. 12:29).

God promises us that, "…the saints shall JUDGE THE WORLD…" and "we shall JUDGE ANGELS" (I Cor. 6:2-3)!

God tells us WHERE this judgment will take place:

"…they were judged every man according to their works," and "whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into THE LAKE OF FIRE" (Rev. 20:13 & 15).

Therefore, we, the Saints, the Body of Christ, the consuming fire ministers of God, the saviours of Mt. Zion, the manifested Sons and Daughters of God, along with our Head, Jesus Christ, also ARE THE LAKE OF FIRE!

THERE IS NO LITERAL LAKE, AND THERE IS NO LITERAL FIRE. Jesus Christ and His Body of Saints ARE THE LAKE OF JUDGING, PURIFYING, CONSUMING SPIRITUAL FIRE!!!

The lake of fire is a metaphor written in symbols that stand for what is being symbolized, not the symbols themselves. The lake of fire is composed of Jesus Christ the Judge of the world, Christ’s divine spiritual fire and brimstone, and the Sons of God who are the body of Christ who are also FLAMES OF FIRE (Heb. 1:7).

And the whole world will be judged BY US! After death, all the dead will be resurrected, they will all be judged, they will have to pass through the purifying lake of fire, they will have to PASS THROUGH US! WE will be their judge along with our Lord.

"Know ye not that the SAINTS SHALL JUDGE THE WORLD?"

And so, the GREAT SEA OF HUMANITY will be judged in the safety and security of the LAKE OF SAINTS!
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mercy, peace and love
Kat
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