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Humans predate neandrathals?
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: indianabob on May 27, 2016, 11:40:55 PM ---Question?
Did Jesus know about this view of his Father's creation?
Would Jesus agree? I have to wonder!
Indiana Bob
--- End quote ---
Hi bob,
Jesus knows all these things about His creation. As to 'this view of His Father's creation,' i can't say I follow. What view? That the earth is very old, humanity is hundreds of thousands years old, and God didn't create the earth in 6 literal 24 hour days? That 'view?'
indianabob:
Hi Alex,
I try to be circumspect about these topics.
You are a scientist and depend to a large degree on what one can learn about the human body through science and practical observation.
I do respect that approach, but I also realize that the Bible is not a book of science to explain physical things and so I have reservations about using spiritually derived knowledge to explain physical mysteries and mixing the two disciplines as if they are complimentary, they are not.
So you are correct in supposing that I do not believe the earth is "old" just because some research scientist forms an opinion that it is and bases their views upon some questionable physical test about the age of rocks and artifacts which in themselves depend upon the so called steady state of the environment. We simply do not know how much "daughter" radiation is in any observed species of radioactive matter. AND we certainly cannot trust the average popular scientist to have the whole truth just because their "truth" is popular.
What did Ray Smith say about all of the popular and long standing church groups? They are ALL wrong!
So why cannot we apply the same description to ALL geologic science that questions scripture?
Why not patiently seek a better explanation that agrees with scripture when God is ready to share that knowledge?
2. I don't know the age of the earth, period. Neither does anyone else.
3. I am not of the opinion that mankind began at the same time the planet was created, it could have been later.
4. I am not prepared to accept that God had to derive Adam from a previously existing humanoid type biped with limited human traits.
If God wanted, God certainly could have created Adam in one solar day and fully functional with a mind and language skills.
5. I do not believe that there had to be some large number of pre-humans for Adam's children to copulate with to expand earth's population.
That is easily refuted when we realize that brothers and sisters and cousins came together to expand the original population.
Kids will be kids and age 14 is a usual starting point unless societal prohibitions exist, and they didn't.
I know that you are very busy and although I would love to discuss further it may not be feasible.
Kindly offered, Indiana Bob
Dennis Vogel:
This universe operates on the laws that God commanded. If it did not obey those laws then God would be a deceiver (liar). But God cannot lie.
Tit 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
When we properly use those laws to determine anything we are playing by the absolute rules that God installed (but there still are undiscovered laws).
So when several types of laws are used to determine the age of anything you can have confidence the result is at least in the ballpark. God cannot lie.
Kat:
--- Quote from: indianabob on May 28, 2016, 02:01:50 PM ---but I also realize that the Bible is not a book of science to explain physical things and so I have reservations about using spiritually derived knowledge to explain physical mysteries and mixing the two disciplines as if they are complimentary, they are not.
--- End quote ---
Bob, I find that comment astonishing. Of course the Bible is totally in line with any true scientific study of physical things... how could it not be? You quote Ray, but apparently you don't believe quite a bit of what he taught. He had much to say about the age of the earth and he gave 'true' science a great deal of credit in his studies. Ray also has a whole conference about his study of the age of this earth and what young earthers - Christian scientists believe and what true science teaches and the truth of it all. Here are some excerpts.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=5815.0 ------------------
But I’m telling you I’ve had my eyes opened to a few things here this past year and it’s not what everybody thinks. It’s not like the scientist think, that is those that are still under the delusion of Darwinism, the species from a common origin and all that. It’s not like the preachers preach. So what is it all about? Well I’m beginning to understand it and it’s just amazing.
v
So we have the theologians poking fun at the scientist. They say, ‘it is so stupid that they think that the earth is billions of years old. Don’t they know that God made it in 6 days.‘
All these theologians look at all this stratification of the earth that took millions of years to form and say, ‘it was Noah’s flood. Just open your Bible, it’s Noah flood, it laid down all the stratas, it’s so simple.’ No paleface, it’s not that simple.
The theologians with this simple little fairytale, Jeannie in a bottle theory, is not true. The scientist thinking that all this came about without some sort of superior, intelligent, powerful, almighty, wise source, is also not true. But there is an element of truth in both. Theologians accept that there is a God. That He did create the heavens and the earth.
Evolutionist and/or most scientist will try to tell you how it came about without intelligence. But much of there research is true. I mean when they go out and say they found this earth’s strata and based on different isotope measurements of different elements that have radiation, these things are shooting off radiation at different rates and it can be measured. They then say this strata is 800 million years old. 800 million? It can’t even be 8000 years according to theologians. Well is all that scientific jargon gobbledygook or do they know a little bit about what they are talking about?
I mean it is scientist that invented computers, automobiles, rocket ships and pacemakers. It is scientist that do this not theologians. Most theologians do not invent lasers, scientist do. So don’t think that all scientist are stupid or something.
You know when we say, ‘you don’t need to be a rocket scientist,’ why do we say that? Why do we use that terminology? Because to be a rocket scientist you’ve got to have more formulas and more knowledge about physics and quantum math, engineering, general science, specific science and specialized science, than you can shake a stick at. These men are absolute geniuses.
v
You say, ‘well we thought that God created the heavens and the earth 6000 years ago. Now you are telling us it’s more like 6 billion. My faith is crumbling.’ No, I’m going to build some of that faith back up. You are going to see this first chapter of Genesis falls right in line with what scientist are now seeing. It does not fall in line with what theologians have said for 2000 years. It does not. But it does fall in line with true science, it absolutely does.
v
So it is kind of an exciting time to live, because I think there is some real things around the corner and some people are afraid of it. Some people are kind of afraid of science. But I’m telling you I’m just becoming more and more convinced, you know, bring it on, because it fits.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=12581.0 ---------------
Dear Alan: Yes, it's true--the Church is really one of the worst enemies of
God's Word. Many scientists know much about science and physics, but
conclude that there is no God and we are the product of blind evolution.
On the other hand, Christian theologians have studied God's Word for
thousands of years, but deny the facts of Science and God's Word. There
is a real harmony between God's Word and true Science, but few have
been privileged to see it.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php?topic=11521.0 ----------------
The scriptural explanation of how God created the heavens and the earth and how long it took and how long ago it was, is in absolute keeping with what science has found. Absolutely.
Not that scientists are right about everything, but as long as they are sticking to their science, almost all scientists are honest. I’ll tell you which science I’ve found where scientists are not honest. The scientists like Stephen Austin and these guys who try to defend the ‘young creation.’ Now I can show you where these people lie or distort or misrepresent. Why would they do that? Because the truth doesn’t uphold their teaching, that’s why. When we get into the talk about Jesus Christ, I’m going to show that too… how people would distort and twist the scriptures and say, ‘well the scriptures says this…’ They say no such thing. Why do they say that then? Because they have to say something to justify their heresy. The truth won’t justify it, so they have to lie.
v
The whole world of non-believers and let’s specifically talk about the scientific community, the ones who’ve studied a good bit of the aspects of both sides of this thing. What is one of the reasons they just flat-out reject the word of God? Because of these two-faced, lying, hypocritical theologians, that’s why. Like this guy who wrote me this email, like he had some vague idea of what he’s talking about. He’s not got a clue.
When somebody suggests to scientists, ‘you know, you ought to obey the scriptures,’ or ‘you ought to believe the Bible.’ They reply, ‘what? Do you really believe that God created this earth six thousand years ago, are you crazy? Here’s five thousand proofs… here’s billions of tons of strata, all of them prove that the earth is very old. You cannot account for five miles of sedimentary rocks which are laid down by water happening in one flood, in a year. Come on! It’s not even conceivable. It took millions and billions of years.’
(From conference notes)
So it is the Christian theologians and teachers that are causing God and His Word to be blasphemed in the world today. They assume that what teachers teach about the Bible is true. Maybe they never read a word of the Bible, but they know that theologians teach that God created the heavens and the earth six thousand years ago in six 24-hour periods. They know that that’s what is taught and they know that it is foolish nonsense. So they turn their back on God. Little do most of them know that the Scriptures are in total agreement with most of the findings of geologists, scientists, astronomers, etc. It is very important that we know the truth on such vital subjects.
------------------------------------------------------------------
2008 Nashville Conference: The Bible and Science Agree 100%
1st half of Day 1: http://youtu.be/-u6ds2-s3Yk
2nd half of Day 1: http://youtu.be/OgHBPT8nAHI
1st half of Day 2: http://youtu.be/PszDw1lr9MY
2nd half of Day 2: http://youtu.be/z9E0p_zDjsY
mercy, peace and love
Kat
lilitalienboi16:
Hi bob,
I suppose I am in a unique position and perhaps this is partly why God raised me up as He did, stolen from babylon before I ever was tainted by her teachings and also trained in the studies of the natural world since I can remember. To what end I know not, perhaps for no more than to give me the unique experience necessary to conform me to His image.
I posted this in a discussion on facebook with some members here. It pertains to my understanding and lack of skepticism in scientific endeavors when the data is consistent amongst the various scientific disciplines and their experiments. Science isn't one man's understanding but the collective efforts of the human race to understand the natural (not spiritual) things of our existence.
Agreed but one thing I see among my brothers and sisters is that some of them fear or even despise science and all it entails because they were so deceived by the church that they conclude the wordly carnal godless men must also be deceiving us with their knowledge which would include science. Now God does call the wisdom of this world STUPIDITY with Him but it is WISDOM that He is addressing and not the stupdity and carnality of the world. So there is wisdom amongst mankind. The thing i wish my brethren would consider more than I think they do, is that it is the spiritual things of God that the natural man cannot receive. God never said the carnal man cannot receive the natural things. The natural man CAN receive natural things, just not the spiritual things. But studying this universe is a purely natural thing because its physical, like the age of the earth, antibiotics, drugs, physics, biology, chemistry, etc.. So I don't find a reason or need to be so anti science. But I know the spiritual things of God are only given to us by God so I am very careful to try the spirits and search the scriptures daily to see if those spiritual things are so. The reality of it is if science was so backwards and all wrong none of the things we enjoy today such as our phones, computers, medical advances, internet, electricity, cars, gps satilites, rockets etc.. etc... none of those things would work. But they do! The proof is in the pudding so to speak. So sure we can be skeptical of things but when 99% of the data says one thing, why should we not accept it? I say this in part because of the concern some of you expressed about my medical studies. God will keep me and teach me. In all things.
Maybe this will help you to see things differently.
Dennis makes a very valid observation as well.
Edit: Kat also points out important things and ray's study.
And let me just add that I see GREAT harmony between science and the scriptures. Mankind's understanding of the universe is finally catching up to Genesis. Only a few thousand years late!
In the end, all will know God and the truth. So I don't lose sleep over things like this ;). I'll be here for you either way as I know you are here for me. And if you should ever require my wordly learned scientificly governed medical training guided and planned by God then you can count on me without hesitation. Though we both know, no man has power over the spirit to retain it and that without Jesus we can do nothing, indeed we are all but grass and dust of the earth. God will save us.
God bless,
Alex
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