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Author Topic: let the evildoer do evil.....  (Read 1477 times)

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octoberose

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let the evildoer do evil.....
« on: June 15, 2016, 02:21:59 AM »

This verse in Revelations 22 was brought to my attention recently:
 "Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy.

This is the last chapter of scripture and I find it extraordinary. I don't know how to understand it, except as we've always said here that God will draw to Himself whomever He will draw. Evil will do it's work until it's purged in the Lake of fire.  Kind of seems silly to convince people who do evil to be any other way.    Is there anything else you see in this?
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lareli

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Re: let the evildoer do evil.....
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2016, 01:10:30 PM »

Reminds me of the verse that says 'make it your ambition to lead a quiet life, work with your hands, and mind your business'

Also where it says 'everyone is right in his own eyes'

We all are going to do whatever we have been created to do. Some will be vessels of wrath and some vessels of honor.



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Im just what you made God.. ~Kid Cudi

John from Kentucky

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Re: let the evildoer do evil.....
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2016, 02:21:36 PM »

No Scripture is its own interpretation.

In the mouth of two or three witnesses let every word be established.

Also, the Book of Revelation is not literal.  It's all symbolic.

The Two Witnesses (Scriptural) must speak to us.  All human speculation is false.
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willemv

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Re: let the evildoer do evil.....
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2016, 04:33:33 PM »


This verse is better understood if you read it in context of this part of the 22nd chapter.Take it from verse 6 where the angel says :"these sayings are faithful and true ". This is referring to the visions and prophecies given to the apostle John throughout the book of Revelation. Verse 7 confirms this and states that Christ will come quickly and speaks of keeping the sayings of the prophecy as a blessing for them that keep them always in mind,because if you do that ,then you are expecting Christ's return to be imminent and live your life accordingly. In verse 10 the angel tells John specifically not to seal these sayings of the prophecy so that we may clearly see His coming ,both in our lifes and in the world as a whole .

And then comes verse 11 which you quoted . The word "still " which is used in every phrase you can read as "yet more" according to the Greek word used, giving the meaning : "let the evildoer do evil yet more , let the filthy be filthy yet more , let the righteous be righteous yet more, let the holy be holy yet more" so that the FULLNESS of all these things including the fullness of the number of the elect (which was all prophesied ) may be reached so that Christ can return.

Ephe 1 :10 --That in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in  heaven and which are on the earth : even in him.

Trust this helps some , Wim
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Rick

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Re: let the evildoer do evil.....
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2016, 07:49:03 PM »

Ray said that everything in the book of revelation is true but not literally true except for the introduction of course.  :)

j from K is right when he says in the mouth of two or three witnesses let every word be established.

If you believe that and do it you'll never be deceived.


God bless.
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: let the evildoer do evil.....
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2016, 08:33:42 PM »

Maybe this is a Spiritual match, at least in part, even as a parable.

Mat 13:24  He put forth another parable unto them, saying, The kingdom of the heavens is likened unto a man who sows good seed in his field
Mat 13:25  But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went away.
Mat 13:26  But when the blade was sprung up and brought forth fruit, then the tares appeared also.
Mat 13:27  So the slaves of the husband of the house came and said unto him, Lord, didst thou not sow good seed in thy field? From where then does it have tares?
Mat 13:28  He said unto them, The enemy, a man, has done this. The slaves said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
Mat 13:29  But he said, No, lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Mat 13:30  Let both grow together until the harvest, and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.

Mat 13:34  Jesus spoke all these things unto the multitude in parables and said nothing unto them without parables
Mat 13:35  that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

Mat 13:36  Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house, and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
Mat 13:37  He answered and said unto them, He that sows the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38  the field is the world; the good seed are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked;
Mat 13:39  and the enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40  As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so shall it be in the end of this age.
Mat 13:41  The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend and those who do iniquity
Mat 13:42  and shall cast them into the furnace of fire; there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:43  Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 08:36:50 PM by Dave in Tenn »
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

willemv

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Re: let the evildoer do evil.....
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2016, 09:16:34 PM »


Rick ,yes a lot of the prophecies of Revelation is symbolic /spiritual language. Take chapter 22 , verse 1 and 2 are are not to be literally understood , verses 3 -5 we can understand literally , verses 6 -10 are pretty literal to understand , I agree vs 11 takes a bit more meditation to understand and the rest of the chapter is quite straight forward. That is if I can read English. Remember the whole book is to be a revelation to true believers and not meant to be a confusion. You made some statements but you don't provide any answers and quite frankly I do not know what you are trying to say - like do you imply I am being deceived ? If so tell me why , I am trying to learn . A far as  second witness goes , I did quote Ephe 1:10 which says Christ will gather his people in the fullness of times and Rev  22 :11 is exactly that and therefore belongs right there in the last book of God's Word.

Dave , your  quotation from Mat 13 is certainly applicable as a lot of what  Jesus said there, finds it culmination in Rev  22 vs 11 and 12 and even up to vs 16 . Do you find this chapter difficult to understand?

In Christ , Wim
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Kat

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Re: let the evildoer do evil.....
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2016, 09:52:37 PM »

This verse in Revelations 22 was brought to my attention recently:
 "Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy.

This is the last chapter of scripture and I find it extraordinary. I don't know how to understand it, except as we've always said here that God will draw to Himself whomever He will draw. Evil will do it's work until it's purged in the Lake of fire.  Kind of seems silly to convince people who do evil to be any other way.    Is there anything else you see in this?

Hi octoberose, you seem to have the gist of what it's talking about there. Also there is a OT Scripture that seems to speak along these same line of thinking, but with an interesting twist.

Dan 12:8  Although I heard, I did not understand. Then I said, "My lord, what shall be the end of these things?"
v. 9  And he said, "Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
v. 10  Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.

There it says "the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end," but in Revelation it says "Do not seal the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is at hand." So we can begin to see when or what time is this speaking of.

Heb 9:26  He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

1Peter 1:20  He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you
v. 21  who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

Heb 1:2  has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;

During the old covenant times it was not the time of the end, because that wasn't until Jesus brought the new covenant "in these last days" and "last times for you who through Him believe in God"... the time of the elect. For all believers down through the centuries, Christ's sacrifice is bringing the last times for those in Him... the elect are being prepared during their individual lives ever since Christ came, living and then waiting in their grave until Christ returns. Then their life will continue at their resurrection into the kingdom.

So that's why the saying in Revelation are open for all the elect in the new covenant times. And that's why it was "closed up and sealed till the time of the end" from the OT prophets and patriarchs... they could not be elect, because it started with Christ's first appearing in the flesh. Nor could they understand what had not happened yet.

The believers can understand these things now because we have the knowledge of the truth. The church believes those verses you referred to are saying that a person fate is sealed at the death... if a person was unjust or filthy, they would continue in that state forever, as would the righteous. Only a blessed few have their eyes open to these truths now.

mercy, peace and love
Kat
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 10:12:21 PM by Kat »
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John from Kentucky

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Re: let the evildoer do evil.....
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2016, 09:58:19 PM »

The Book of Revelation is most difficult to understand.

Only Jesus can give understanding by His Spirit.

As Ray wrote, all the symbols in Revelation can be explained by other Scriptures.

A good read is Ray's first chapter of the Lake of Fire Series------"The Book of Revelation is a Book of Symbols".
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: let the evildoer do evil.....
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2016, 10:01:42 PM »

Dave , your  quotation from Mat 13 is certainly applicable as a lot of what  Jesus said there, finds it culmination in Rev  22 vs 11 and 12 and even up to vs 16 . Do you find this chapter difficult to understand?

In Christ , Wim

If you're asking me, no I don't find this chapter difficult to understand, even though much of the language is "figurative".  His name on foreheads, for example.  Tattooed?  Branded?  Indelible Magic Marker?  The Old Testament physical object worn on the forehead (Sorry, I don't recall at the moment what this is/was called, or even if it is Old Testament or simply Judaic)?  No.  The Truth is "Spiritual" whether the language is "Literal" or "Symbolic".   

I do find it difficult to "envision" at times, but I see examples of all these things in scripture, and in the course of my life, so that helps the "envisioning" of how these things occur, both "now" and in the culmination.

Rev 22:17  And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that hears say, Come. And let him that is thirsty come; and whosoever will, let him take of the water of life freely.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2016, 10:32:46 PM by Dave in Tenn »
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

octoberose

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Re: let the evildoer do evil.....
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2016, 02:55:08 AM »

Thanks all.
 I first finished the LOF first chapter yesterday. Of course I have read it before but it's a good idea to revisit Ray's writings often.
I was especially interested in the world "still" being translated as "yet more"
 I did read the whole chapter before I posted but haven't gone back and read all of Revelations. It's an exhausting read but I'll be doing it soon. I still think chapter 22 is something to really ponder.
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