Guilt

[pg-91]

Hi everyone,

First of all, sorry for my bad english, I am not a native speaker. I've been struggling with guilt and depression for several years, and unfortunately I can't ask forgiveness whom I hurt. I know Jesus died for our sins, but I still find it very difficult to grasp this in everyday life and have a clear conscience. I've started to read the Bible and pray in 2012, and also I went to a christian counselor and to a psychiater last year, but nothing really changed. I've been reading this forum and Ray's papers for about a month now, but haven't found much about this topic, could you give some advice, maybe?

Thanks, PG-91

[Dave in Tenn]

That's a very big question.  All I may have are small answers.

Depression can have many causes, and as such may have to be dealt with many ways. 

Guilt, on the other hand, is not always a bad thing to feel.  It certainly isn't bad if we truly are guilty of something and not the victim of somebody trying to lay it on us for every little thing.  It helps us to learn not to do the things that make us feel guilty.  It serves a purpose and isn't to be avoided at all costs.  You don't want a seared conscience unable to feel guilty.

I don't need to know what thing you did that makes you feel guilty, but I'd like to ask:  What is it that you 'want' instead of feelings of guilt?

[octoberose]

Hi Pg
   Your question reminds me of the difference between Judas when he betrayed Christ and Peter when he denied Christ and Paul when he persecuted Christ. Look at the difference in their responses. Judas knew nothing of Grace and nothing of the victory over sin that could be his in Christ.  He felt terribly guilty and he hung himself.  Peter and Paul on the other hand would spend their lives proclaiming the goodness of God and not thinking that they had anything worthwhile  except Christ. We are all guilty. Try not  to think more of yourself then you should. Seek forgiveness and love God .  Thats all any of us can do. 
   Also, Ray talked about Paul truly being the most wicked of men.  Maybe that would be a good place to start reading .
   Nice to have you here.

[pg-91]

That's a very big question.  All I may have are small answers.

Depression can have many causes, and as such may have to be dealt with many ways. 

Guilt, on the other hand, is not always a bad thing to feel.  It certainly isn't bad if we truly are guilty of something and not the victim of somebody trying to lay it on us for every little thing.  It helps us to learn not to do the things that make us feel guilty.  It serves a purpose and isn't to be avoided at all costs.  You don't want a seared conscience unable to feel guilty.

I don't need to know what thing you did that makes you feel guilty, but I'd like to ask:  What is it that you 'want' instead of feelings of guilt?

I understand and agree with your point that it is not good to have a seared conscience.  My brother(in cancer) and one of my classmates (accident or suicide) died some years ago, and I hurt them and regret a lot of things. I feel I don't deserve anything and  I simply don't know what to do. To answer your question, I guess I would like to experience peace instead of feelings of guilt.

[pg-91]

Hi Pg
   Your question reminds me of the difference between Judas when he betrayed Christ and Peter when he denied Christ and Paul when he persecuted Christ. Look at the difference in their responses. Judas knew nothing of Grace and nothing of the victory over sin that could be his in Christ.  He felt terribly guilty and he hung himself.  Peter and Paul on the other hand would spend their lives proclaiming the goodness of God and not thinking that they had anything worthwhile  except Christ. We are all guilty. Try not  to think more of yourself then you should. Seek forgiveness and love God .  Thats all any of us can do. 
   Also, Ray talked about Paul truly being the most wicked of men.  Maybe that would be a good place to start reading .
   Nice to have you here.

Yeah, I also thought about this. Thanks for pointing out some things.

[cheekie3]

pg-91 -

Hi.

That's a very big question.  All I may have are small answers.

Depression can have many causes, and as such may have to be dealt with many ways. 

Guilt, on the other hand, is not always a bad thing to feel.  It certainly isn't bad if we truly are guilty of something and not the victim of somebody trying to lay it on us for every little thing.  It helps us to learn not to do the things that make us feel guilty.  It serves a purpose and isn't to be avoided at all costs.  You don't want a seared conscience unable to feel guilty.

I don't need to know what thing you did that makes you feel guilty, but I'd like to ask:  What is it that you 'want' instead of feelings of guilt?

I understand and agree with your point that it is not good to have a seared conscience.  My brother(in cancer) and one of my classmates (accident or suicide) died some years ago, and I hurt them and regret a lot of things. I feel I don't deserve anything and  I simply don't know what to do. To answer your question, I guess I would like to experience peace instead of feelings of guilt.

As you feel guilty of the things you did to the two people you know, who are now dead - you will need to ask God to forgive you of these things you regret.

The best way is to forgive all those who have sinned against you; and repent of all your sins to GOD (especially these things you regret and feel guilty about).

And know that as His Word confirms that you will be forgiven of all things, if you forgive others all things; then you must accept the forgiveness from Him, and the guilt should be replaced with His Forgiveness - as once He Forgives you, He holds no account of these things you regret.

I hope this helps you a little.

Kind Regards.

George.

[lareli]

I think what you're looking for is forgiveness and as George pointed out, if you want forgiveness you have to forgive everyone for everything.

[Dave in Tenn]

It could be that, for now, just 'wanting' to make things right is all that is necessary.  All of us want to do things that are impossible for now.  That what faith is for.  It's not always going to be like this.  You have not seen or spoken to your brother or classmate for the last time. 

Isa 11:6  And the wolf (that's me, when I'm hurtful) will be living with the lamb, and the leopard will take his rest with the young goat; and the lion will take grass for food like the ox; and the young lion will go with the young ones of the herd; and a little child will be their guide.
Isa 11:7  And the cow and the bear will be friends while their young ones are sleeping together.
Isa 11:8  And the child at the breast will be playing by the hole of the snake, and the older child will put his hand on the bright eye of the poison-snake.
Isa 11:9  There will be no cause of pain or destruction in all my holy mountain: for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the sea is covered by the waters.

The rest of that chapter, before and after, are pretty good too.   

[pg-91]

It could be that, for now, just 'wanting' to make things right is all that is necessary.  All of us want to do things that are impossible for now.  That what faith is for.  It's not always going to be like this.  You have not seen or spoken to your brother or classmate for the last time. 

Isa 11:6  And the wolf (that's me, when I'm hurtful) will be living with the lamb, and the leopard will take his rest with the young goat; and the lion will take grass for food like the ox; and the young lion will go with the young ones of the herd; and a little child will be their guide.
Isa 11:7  And the cow and the bear will be friends while their young ones are sleeping together.
Isa 11:8  And the child at the breast will be playing by the hole of the snake, and the older child will put his hand on the bright eye of the poison-snake.
Isa 11:9  There will be no cause of pain or destruction in all my holy mountain: for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the sea is covered by the waters.

The rest of that chapter, before and after, are pretty good too.   

What you wrote is of course very comforting to me, but since what I want most is to apologize to them, I completely loose all interest or ambition to do anything now, in this eon. Simply no activities makes sense to me. In the last couple of years, I maybe even felt worse after achieving some goals or when something good happened to me.

[cheekie3]

pg-91 -

It could be that, for now, just 'wanting' to make things right is all that is necessary.  All of us want to do things that are impossible for now.  That what faith is for.  It's not always going to be like this.  You have not seen or spoken to your brother or classmate for the last time. 

Isa 11:6  And the wolf (that's me, when I'm hurtful) will be living with the lamb, and the leopard will take his rest with the young goat; and the lion will take grass for food like the ox; and the young lion will go with the young ones of the herd; and a little child will be their guide.
Isa 11:7  And the cow and the bear will be friends while their young ones are sleeping together.
Isa 11:8  And the child at the breast will be playing by the hole of the snake, and the older child will put his hand on the bright eye of the poison-snake.
Isa 11:9  There will be no cause of pain or destruction in all my holy mountain: for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the sea is covered by the waters.

The rest of that chapter, before and after, are pretty good too.   

What you wrote is of course very comforting to me, but since what I want most is to apologize to them, I completely loose all interest or ambition to do anything now, in this eon. Simply no activities makes sense to me. In the last couple of years, I maybe even felt worse after achieving some goals or when something good happened to me.

Remember that everything you have experienced, everything you are experiencing now and everything you will experience has been planned by Our Heavenly Father for you before the beginning.

This includes all your heart's desires, your thoughts, the words you use and your actions.

Most of it is for you to experience the knowledge of good and the knowledge of evil; and in the process be purified like gold and silver - and purification is very, very painful.

The end result is for you to desire good and not evil - like Jesus Christ The Righteous who lives within you in Holy Spirit.

I hope this helps a little.

Kind Regards.

George.

[octoberose]

I hope this doesn't sound way off - and its late at night  and we have to get up early in the morning- but here's what I do. I know the dead are dead But they will rise in the resurrection as will All of us who are not still living when Christ returns. Well, I Figure that Christ will see my parents before I do. I can't give you any exact reason for that but it seems consistent with what I think  I Know, And there are times when I say something like, " Lord when you see Mom can you tell her about .... And can you express to her how  sorry I am about... And will you tell Daddy how much I've missed him?  " .   
   You will tell your loved ones what you need to at the proper time . Until then, leave it with God,  One of His attributes is that he's Kind.  He will give you the opportunity to make it right.   

[Dennis Vogel]

I think most of us understand. Try to remember we are here to learn good and evil. You cannot have one without the other.

Would these two persons want you to be miserable for the rest of your life? I don't think so. They will also need to repent of their own sins.

Luk 18:19  And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

Act 3:19  Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

You have repented and you are forgiven.

1Jn 2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

We all go through this - Even Jesus

Heb 5:8  Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

2Co 7:9  Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.

This is our destiny - Better to repent now than later

[pg-91]

Thank you for the answers!

[lostANDfound]

Good one Dennis.