> General Discussions
Did Jesus Christ Ever Claim to Be Almighty God or only The Son of Almighty God
lilitalienboi16:
There is also the Shema in Deut 6:4 which Christ re-iterates in the new testament with 'Jehovah' in the old becoming 'Kurios' in the new which is the Lord Jesus. So Jesus is indirectly revealing Himself as God.
Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
John 20:28-29
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord ['kurios'] and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Also consider why Jesus came the first time, it was to serve and love. To show us the way in humility. He was very humble, which is something that sets him apart from all the false gods of this earth because they come seeking fame, power, service, but Jesus came to wash the feet of mortal men.
rick:
I'm wondering now when Jesus said no one has seen God except the son did Jesus mean no one seen God in His spirit form ?
In Isaiah 9:6-7 it does say His name shall be called wonderful,counselor, the mighty God and the ever lasting Father.
I know that no scripture is of its own interpretation but this scripture is plain to understand .
God bless.
Dennis Vogel:
--- Quote from: Rick on August 19, 2016, 06:08:45 PM ---I'm wondering now when Jesus said no one has seen God except the son did Jesus mean no one seen God in His spirit form ?
In Isaiah 9:6-7 it does say His name shall be called wonderful,counselor, the mighty God and the ever lasting Father.
I know that no scripture is of its own interpretation but this scripture is plain to understand .
God bless.
--- End quote ---
It very simple. No man has seen God the Father except His only begotten Son. In spirit or any other way. Don't add to the word of God.
(ASV) No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
(CLV) God no one has ever seen. The only-begotten God, Who is in the bosom of the Father, He unfolds Him."
(Diaglott-NT) God no one has seen ever; the only-begotten son, that being in the bosom of the Father, he has made known.
(KJV) No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
(Rotherham) No one, hath seen, God, at any time: An Only Begotten God, The One existing within the bosom of the Father, He, hath interpreted him .
(YLT) God no one hath ever seen; the only begotten Son, who is on the bosom of the Father--he did declare.
rick:
Hi Dennis,
What my meaning was is did Jesus say -
ASV) No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Jesus could say that because God is spirit and so no one in the flesh can see spirit but did not Philip say (and this is not a direct quote )to Jesus show us the Father and Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the Father, again not a direct quote .
I explained before the world is coming out of my life so for me no tv , and I thank God for that but no internet either. Maybe I should get internet again only for the propose for this forum so as to copy and past scripture.
When I put any scripture down these days there is no copy and pasting for me I need to type it out from my bible so I do use memory , God forgive me.
So I don't feel I was adding to the word of God if anything I was leaving stuff out .
cheekie3:
Alex -
Thank you for this very informative Post:
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on August 19, 2016, 12:00:56 PM ---Hi George, I did find a scripture of Jesus Himself calling Himself the Almighþ.
Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Now there are plenty of scriptures under the inspiration of God that refer to the Lord as the Almighty including several more in the NT but I cant think of any other were Jesus Himself says that in the new testament. There are plenty where He does in the OT though.
Here are some interesting emails from ray that may provide some insight into where he was leading with his enigma of God series.
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,13550.0.html
Ray,
When will your new paper be finished? I feel like his spirit in me says that in the flesh Jesus was
completely man, he had divested himself of divinity, but in spirit he is once again the creator god.
From Randy
Dear Randy: I have no idea. Only God knows. A better question would be: "When will you START
writing your new paper?" I have not been feeling very well the whole last year. However, I have been
reading and studying a lot, also taking hundreds of pages of notes, but I haven't written but a few
pages on what could be called my "New Paper." I know people think that I should be able to solve
in a few months what hundreds of thousands of theologians, scholars, teachers, and ministers have
not been able to solve in over two thousand years, but that is not the case I'm afraid. There are
numerous problems with the appearing of Jesus Christ in the New Testament as not only the Son of
God, but God Himself, and yet remain true to the teaching that there is only ONE GOD. I may know
the answer, but Scripturally proving it is a little more difficult than most can imagine.
Who was Jesus when "he had divested himself of divinity" as you say? The only "Jesus" we are
told of in the Bible is the One Who was born of the virgin Mary. Who was He and where was He at
the time that He "divested" Himself? Where do we find Jesus Christ BEFORE the New Testament?
Where did He come from? Who was He BEFORE He divested His divinity and BEFORE He was
born of a virgin? Is He even mentioned in the Old Testament? Or did the God of the Old Testament
divest Himself of His divinity?
If there is only ONE God and that ONE God "divested" Himself of His divinity, then Who is running the
Universe? Who remains as a God UN-divested of Divinity? If you say that that God is God the Father,
then Who was the God that divested Himself of divinity? If you say Jesus, then we have TWO GODS--
One divested and One UN-divested! If there was but ONE GOD and that One God divested Himself
of His divinity and DIED, then how is it that we still have TWO LIVING GODS? We have [1] Jesus, the
One that Thomas called "My LORD and my GOD," and we have [2] God the Father Who raised the
"LORD AND GOD" of doubting Thomas from the dead. See what mean? It's a ENIGMA!! May God
grant us all patience till we come into a greater knowledge of the Truth.
Ray
------------http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,13321.0.html
Dear Ray,
I enjoyed your article on the Trinity. Just a question, we know that the Father of Jesus Christ was not created.
From what you wrote and what I see in the scriptures, I feel that the son Jesus Christ had a beginning, which is not the case of Father.
I would like your opinion on it.
cordially
Élisée
Dear Elisee: Both the Father and the Son are scarcely alluded to in
the Hebrew Scriptures. Well then, WHO IS GOD of the Hebrew Scriptures?
You'll have to wait till I finish my research for what I believe is the Scriptural
answer to this enigma. There is far more to this subject than most could
ever imagine, and yet, the answer has been there all the time, it's just that
we haven't believed the Scriptures. And giving the answer and proving the
answer are two different things, I assure you. At least I now know the Name
of the Father.
God be with you,
Ray
-----------http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,13157.0.html
Gina's insightful question
« on: May 24, 2011, 06:33:57 PM »
Dear Forum: I asked Gina if she would mind me posting her email and my reply
on the Forum--she consented. With my reply to Gina, I have now given you (our
Forum readers only, as it will be some time before I do a study and paper on this)
the key to understanding just Who God is.
We will also delve into the "What"
aspect of God. All of the Scriptures must agree or we are not understanding or
teaching properly. I have said for many years that "Jesus IS GOD" (see pp 22-23
of my article "God is NOT a Trinity." But if Jesus IS God and His Father IS God
don't we then have TWO GODS? There is ONLY ONE GOD! Yes, this does
appear to be an unsolvable enigma, but it is not unsolvable. I have said and taught
further through the years that not only is Jesus God, but He is the ONLY GOD that
we will every truly know in this life. And why do I say that? Well for one thing, that
IS what the Scriptures teach: "And this IS life eternal [eonian--'And this is the
Aionian Life..."--Emphatic Diaglott." ], that they might know Thee the only true God,
and Jesus Christ, Whom Thou has sent" (John 17:3). Yes, it will take "aions/eons"
to come to know God the Father. It won't happen in this life. So what is the purpose
of us receiving eonian life? To come to "...know Thee the only true God..."
I am receiving emails from some who are trying to "beat me to the punch" so to speak, in
revealing just Who and/or What is our God. I have neither the time nor the inclination
to go through all of these emails to critique all these speculations, but I am sure there
will be some who will attempt to to get their teaching on the Forum before I do. I encourage
study and research, however, let's not be guilty of doing it for the sake of vanity. And this
is not to say that some have some truthful insight into this subject, but there is so much
more to this teaching that just solving the riddle of how the Father and Son can both be God
if.....I say IF they are separate Beings with separate personalities.
"Hear O Israel, the LORD thy God is ONE LORD" (Deut. 6:4).
"I and My Father ARE ONE" (John 10:30).
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word [singular] WAS GOD" (John 1:1).
"I am the LORD, and there is non else, there is NO GOD BESIDE ME" (Isa. 45:5--"none
else" ver. 14; "none else" ver. 18; "none beside Me" ver. 21; "I am God, there is none else"
ver. 22; "I am God, there is none like Me," Isa. 46:9; "I am and there is none else beside
Me," Isa. 47:8).
"There is none other God, BUT ONE...But to us there is BUT ONE GOD" (I Cor. 8:4 & 6).
"And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, 'Hear, O Israel; The Lord
our God is ONE LORD" (Mark. 12:29).
As to how many "Gods" there are, there is no argument! There is but ONE GOD! I have
now given you part of the answer, but there is much to follow. We know what the Scripture
says, but how is it possible for two to be one God? There is an answer, but I would ask
that you reserve sending me either questions or outlines of your own personal studies until
after I have an opportunity to publish my research.
I am working on a write-up on what "herbs" I take, and just what many of these "herbs" are
that God mentions in the Scriptures.
God be with you all,
Ray
----- Forwarded Message -----
Subject: Re: I have a question
Ray,
It's about your post on the forum to Kat's question.
You said,
"If we take out all the descriptive phrases we have this: "...there is one God,
the Father...AND one Lord Jesus Christ..." ..... What would happen if we
were to replace the comma (,) after the word "Father" with a colon ( : )?
"But to us there is but one God: the Father...AND the Lord Jesus Christ...."
Why did you change the word "one" to the word "the"? Is the word "one"
also spurious?
Thanks for your time. No need to answer if you aren't feeling up to it.
Gina
Dear Gina: Boy you are pretty observant, Gina. Actually I did not intend to use the
article "the" at all, and I would shorten the statement even further to the lowest
number of words which would still retain Paul's premise. I just didn't want to try and
cover this teaching in an e-mail which will probably take a hundred pages. But let's
finish my thought, and I will then reserve further comment until I am ready to reveal
my findings. The King James reads:
"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom
are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by
whom are all things, and we by Him" (I Cor. 8: 6).
Notice the lite face type added by the translators to make Paul's statement mor
readable. By taking out the added words we lose nothing:
"But to us one God, the Father, of whom all things, and we in Him,
and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom all things, and we by Him."
Paul's subject in this chapter is "idols." So He is teaching Who the real God is.
Who is the "one God" of Whom he speaks? He answers: "the FATHER," followed
by a description of the Father's role in the universe, but if we take out the description
of His role we loose nothing, as the thought is the same only shortened: "to us there is
one God, THE FATHER. But Paul doesn't end his statement with a period. There is
more to follow. He also speaks of "one Lord Jesus Christ" and a description of His
role in the universe. Okay, let's leave out ALL the descriptive words describing both
of Their roles, and we have this:
"...to us...ONE GOD: the Father...AND...Jesus."
I am not suggesting that this is the way to study all Scripture, by taking out
words, but I am trying to draw attention to the most important words.
Jesus said: "I [Jesus] and My Father are one" (John 10:30). Who is the
"one" in Jesus's statement? The Father? NO--"the Father AND Jesus."
Wow. Isn't that also what Paul really says in I Cor. 8:6?
God be with you,
Ray
---------------
Hope it helps some.
God bless,
Alex
--- End quote ---
Do we know for sure that the original Greek in verse 8 for saith the Lord is correct - as I know of an obscure version that states this as saith Jehovah:
Rev 1:
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Also, we know that Jesus is the spokesman for His Almighty Father and His God.
In the New testament, we know that Jesus came to reveal Our Almighty Father to us; so the most astonishing verse in The Scriptures to me is what Ray focused on:
I Corinthians 8:8:
"But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by Him" (I Cor. 8: 6).
We know that Jesus was with His Heavenly Father at the beginning - as His Word (or spokeman).
So to us to know Our Father, we must first know Jesus (His Son) - and as Ray eluded to - perhaps the best way to try to understand this enigma is by stating that 'There is One God - Our Heavenly Father together with His Beloved Son (Jesus Christ)'
But, as The Son could not exist without His Father (The One who was there before all else), and Jesus is not above or greater than His Father - Our Heavenly Father has to be The Supreme Sovereign of all there is (who has no other above Him) who birthed Jesus Christ (His Son); and then together they (plural) created the Heavens and the Earth.
Kind Regards.
'Out of My Depth' George
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