> General Discussions
Did Jesus Christ Ever Claim to Be Almighty God or only The Son of Almighty God
cheekie3:
Alex -
Thank you for Posting this:
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on August 19, 2016, 05:09:35 PM ---There is also the Shema in Deut 6:4 which Christ re-iterates in the new testament with 'Jehovah' in the old becoming 'Kurios' in the new which is the Lord Jesus. So Jesus is indirectly revealing Himself as God.
Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mark 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
John 20:28-29
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord ['kurios'] and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Also consider why Jesus came the first time, it was to serve and love. To show us the way in humility. He was very humble, which is something that sets him apart from all the false gods of this earth because they come seeking fame, power, service, but Jesus came to wash the feet of mortal men.
--- End quote ---
Jesus indeed came to serve rather than 'lord it over us', like our worldly leaders do today; and His Delight was always to 'do the Will of His Father'.
Jesus cannot be separated from His Father; as they are One.
Kind Regards.
George
cheekie3:
Rick -
You raise a very interesting Point:
--- Quote from: Rick on August 19, 2016, 06:08:45 PM ---I'm wondering now when Jesus said no one has seen God except the son did Jesus mean no one seen God in His spirit form ?
In Isaiah 9:6-7 it does say His name shall be called wonderful,counselor, the mighty God and the ever lasting Father.
I know that no scripture is of its own interpretation but this scripture is plain to understand .
God bless.
--- End quote ---
The New Testament Scriptures state that 'Jesus has come from His Father, in order to reveal The Father to us' - and all we know about The Father is revealed by Jesus Christ (as the Gospels of His Work and Words record), together with His Revealed Word in Acts, and the rest of The New Testament - as Jesus is 'God's Word'.
We know that 'God is Spirit; and that we must Worship Him in Spirit and in Truth'.
We know that only The Son has ever seen The Father - and No One has ever heard His (The Father's) Voice.
Jesus is The Word (and Voice) of God (His Father).
Jesus is Our Mediator to Our Father; as Jesus is One (unified) with His Father.
Kind Regards.
George
cheekie3:
Dennis -
Thank you for sharing these Scriptures; and the different versions help us to better understand the relationship between Jesus Christ and His Father:
--- Quote from: Dennis Vogel on August 19, 2016, 06:21:22 PM ---
--- Quote from: Rick on August 19, 2016, 06:08:45 PM ---I'm wondering now when Jesus said no one has seen God except the son did Jesus mean no one seen God in His spirit form ?
In Isaiah 9:6-7 it does say His name shall be called wonderful,counselor, the mighty God and the ever lasting Father.
I know that no scripture is of its own interpretation but this scripture is plain to understand .
God bless.
--- End quote ---
It very simple. No man has seen God the Father except His only begotten Son. In spirit or any other way. Don't add to the word of God.
(ASV) No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
(CLV) God no one has ever seen. The only-begotten God, Who is in the bosom of the Father, He unfolds Him."
(Diaglott-NT) God no one has seen ever; the only-begotten son, that being in the bosom of the Father, he has made known.
(KJV) No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
(Rotherham) No one, hath seen, God, at any time: An Only Begotten God, The One existing within the bosom of the Father, He, hath interpreted him .
(YLT) God no one hath ever seen; the only begotten Son, who is on the bosom of the Father--he did declare.
--- End quote ---
Kind Regards.
George
cheekie3:
Alex -
Thank you for clarifying these Points:
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on August 19, 2016, 07:44:13 PM ---Hi George,
I'm think you missed something very important that ray pointed out. The ONE in paul's state isn't the Father. Its The Father and Jesus.
Jesus said: "I [Jesus] and My Father are one" (John 10:30). Who is the
"one" in Jesus's statement? The Father? NO--"the Father AND Jesus."
Wow. Isn't that also what Paul really says in I Cor. 8:6?
That is the ONE God. From how I understand what you said, "There is One God - Our Heavenly Father together with His Beloved Son (Jesus Christ)'," isn't quiet the same to me as it makes it appear as if we have two God's.
As for your question regarding Rev 1:7 of "Say's the Lord" do we know if that is accurate? I believe we do. Revelation, as written by John, was originally done so in greek to my knowledge. I don't recall John ever using the term 'Jehovah' in his writings but rather the greek word 'Kurios' which is in english is 'Lord.'
Furthermore, Jesus of the NT is Jehovah of the OT. That is exactly what ray proved in his "Solving the Enigma of God, Part 1" paper and in his many other writings.
So ether way, it would be a moot point even if the original God inspired version had john hearing 'Jehovah' say those things as opposed to 'The Lord says', which like I said, I don't believe is the case anyway.
I agree that the Son could not exist without His Father but also remember, that a father is no father without his son. Jesus did say at one point in the flesh that His Father was greater but we are also told that before He emptied Himself "In God’s own form existed he, and shared with God equality, deemed nothing needed grasping. But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross." (Phil 2:6-8)
Hopefully this helps some. Its Always an interesting discussion.
God bless,
Alex
--- End quote ---
I agree that together can be misunderstood, and was a poor word to use.
I agree that Kyrios or kurios (Ancient Greek: κύριος) is a Greek word which is usually translated as "lord" or "master".
I understand that Theos means 'God with us'.
Your point about a Father without a Son cannot be a Father, is very valid.
I agree that The Scriptures confirm that Jesus is equal with God, as His Father is always within Him.
You Post has most certainly helped.
Kind Regards.
George
cheekie3:
Kat -
Thank you for Posting these Scriptures; which helps clarify a lot:
--- Quote from: Kat on August 19, 2016, 07:17:32 PM ---
--- Quote from: Rick on August 19, 2016, 06:08:45 PM ---I'm wondering now when Jesus said no one has seen God except the son did Jesus mean no one seen God in His spirit form ?
In Isaiah 9:6-7 it does say His name shall be called wonderful,counselor, the mighty God and the ever lasting Father.
I know that no scripture is of its own interpretation but this scripture is plain to understand .
God bless.
--- End quote ---
Here are some Scripture, it better to get an understanding when you read all you can find on a subject. I noticed that Jesus did say a number times of the Father "I know Him," which I consider could mean He perceives/understands the Father, not necessarily a visual sighting of Him.
John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the Only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared (Strong's: unfold - declare, tell) Him.
John 5:37 And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form.
John 8:55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, 'I do not know Him,' I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word.
John 7:28 Then Jesus cried out, as He taught in the temple, saying, "You both know Me, and you know where I am from; and I have not come of Myself, but He who sent Me is true, whom you do not know.
v. 29 But I know Him, for I am from Him, and He sent Me."
Matt 11:27 All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.
John 14:9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
v. 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works.
v. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.
John 8:19 Then they said to Him, "Where is Your Father?" Jesus answered, "You know neither Me nor My Father. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also."
Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
in•vis•i•ble \-"vi-ze-bel\ adj 1 : incapable of being seen <~ to the naked eye> 2 : hidden 3 : imperceptible, inconspicuous. (Merriam-Webster)
1Tim 1:17 and to the King of the ages, the incorruptible, invisible, only wise God, is honour and glory--to the ages of the ages! Amen. (Young's)
1John 4:12 No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
Kind Regards.
George
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version