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Giving thanks for all things?
Colin:
Hi John
Your quote: “Jesus healed tens of thousands of people. Why? Because He could. He had the Power of the Spirit. Also, Jesus was the Messiah, the Anointed One, He healed because the Scriptures said He would. He had to fulfil God's will.” [end of quote]
Implying that Jesus [only] healed people because He was “compelled to” or simply could do so places an unwarranted slant on scriptures and diminishes the love He has towards the world for whose sins He suffered an agonizing death. He displayed a degree of love which we all struggle to fully comprehend.
Quote from JFK : Jesus said He was not of this world. [end of quote]
Yes, Jesus did say He was not of the world….He also said His elect, in like manner, are not “of the world”. Let’s ask “What does that mean?”
John 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
John 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
I understand that to mean while we are living “In the world”, we renounce the world’s values.
Quote from JFK: Jesus said He did not pray for the world. [end of quote]
There are different Greek words translated “pray for” and we need to be aware that they have different meanings. Ray cautioned us to be careful to know about word differences.
John 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
John17:9 I pray for them: I pray [Greek erotao = ask a person to DO something, not FOR something] not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
John 17:20 Neither pray [erotao] I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
What was Jesus praying that His Father would DO? It covers not only those who would become believers then and down through the ages, but ALSO THE WORLD…… So, yes…..Jesus DID pray for the world. And we are told that twice! Firstly, that the world would believe and secondly that the world would KNOW….which implies something deeper.
John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
John 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Quote from JFK: Jesus said the poor would always be with us. [end of quote]
Mark 14:7 For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will, ye may do them good: but me ye have not always.
Yes, Jesus said we would always have “the poor” and went on to say, whenever we want, we may do something good for them. That is correlated in Matthew 25. And Titus 1:16 ; Titus 3:1,2 reinforce that.
Quote from JFK : And yet, there are those who disregard Jesus' words and tout the propaganda of the Great, False, Church which teaches the false gospel of salvation by works and how we must love, love, love. Deceptive words which deceive the Many. The Elect will not be deceived by false religion. [end of quote]
As a contrast, what is “pure religion”? And I don’t think we must do it “under cover” so nobody will ever notice.
Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
Quote from JFK: Jesus told us we must pray and do good deeds in private. [end of quote]
Praying out loudly on street corners is not the way to go. But if I visit somebody in hospital, do I have to go after dark, in disguise?
Luke 11:33 No man, when he hath lighted a candle, putteth it in a secret place, neither under a bushel, but on a candlestick, that they which come in may see the light.
No - we are not to chase the glare of publicity, however our good deeds will later become a means of giving glory to God when people remember how we faithfully lived as lights and they come to realise it was God working through us.
When Jesus healed people (which was doing good deeds) He did it in full view, not in a “back room”, or “secretly” at night time. The apostles often followed a similar pattern.
Act 5:14 And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.)
Act 5:15 Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.
Acts 5:16 There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.
Colin
John from Kentucky:
--- Quote from: octoberose on August 25, 2016, 02:11:44 AM ---Thank you for your post Colin.
John, in what scripture am I told that there is something I am Forbidden to Pray For least I be deceived? How does that relate to "in everything, with prayers and supplications make your requests be known to God..." Yes, for our peace as the scripture says. I'm not asking God to 'save' those He has no intention of 'saving' until the resurrection and judgement. I am usually asking for mercy. To comfort those in terrible grief and death. If that offends you it just is going to have to offend you.
I know at times I am guilty of not really paying attention to a post and then commenting later on and missed out on what was said, but you all really must not agree when I wrote that the prayer right before the crucifixion and leaving his disciples where Jesus says He was not praying for the world is Not indicative of Him Never praying for the world. It is not. We cannot extrapolate that . So I'm a little upset because now I and those like me are part of the propaganda of the Great False Church. Are you kidding me?
John, you're actually implying that a mother is not to pray for her child. Or her husband. At all . Because they are of the world.
I direct you to Isaiah 49-" Can a woman forget her nursing child, that she should have no compassion on the son of her womb? Even these may forget, yet I will not forget you." Or how about Romans 10:1- Brothers and sisters, my heart's desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved." And as of Paul's writing they were not saved and he was Praying for them.
And now I have nothing else useful to say.
--- End quote ---
I am sorry if I offended you Octoberose. You totally missed my point. Further explanation would just make things worse. We are all just toads beneath the plow (stolen from Churchill who stole it from Rudyard Kipling).
Again, sorry if I caused you offense.
Dave in Tenn:
Octoberrose, I've found a lot of value in what you shared.
Here's a bit more that may counter some of the other sweeping statements in the thread:
Rom 10:1 Brethren, the pleasure indeed of my heart, and my supplication that is to God for Israel, is--for salvation;
Rom 10:2 for I bear them testimony that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge,
Rom 10:3 for not knowing the righteousness of God, and their own righteousness seeking to establish, to the righteousness of God they did not submit.
Now, I know that the Jews were not "the world", but neither were they believers according to knowledge.
I'm well aware that we must pray within the will of God. I'm also aware that God wills that all men be saved. And I'm instructed not to judge things before their time. There's not a one of us who can't say that at one point we didn't believe, and then we did. Jesus knew, even when we didn't. We don't know, so why not ask on behalf of others?
One other small point. That there are only a few instances where any figure of the New Testament prayed for someone in "the world" and most where prayer is for oneself or our brothers and sisters shouldn't be surprising. This book isn't written for the unbelieving world. All Scripture is inspired and profitable for the man and woman of God in this ever-expanding family.
Such instances as there are should also counter over-generalization.
Lastly, prayer is more than the words said at prayer-time. It's an on-going conversation between the Heart of God and our own. It's axiomatic that God answers no prayer that isn't prayed. Personally, I need MORE of it, not less.
Joel:
Where does forgiveness begin or end?
My mother taught me a simple prayer when I was a small child;
Now I lay me down to sleep, I pray the Lord my soul to keep.
If I should die before I wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take.
God bless mother, and father, sisters, and brothers, and everyone else in the whole wide world.
Amen.
On some occasions during my childhood, I didn't want to say the bless everyone in the whole wide world part. Because I had some bad feelings for some other kid in the neighborhood that I was mad at, that day or week.
But since it was a prayer we said aloud, I had to grit my teeth and say it anyway.
Joel
John from Kentucky:
It is good not to pray to bless everyone in the whole wide world.
The reason? Because God is not currently blessing everyone in the whole wide world. To do otherwise is to ask God to go against His will, which anyone who worships the True God should not do.
God will eventually bless everyone in the whole wide world, after He causes them to repent from their sins and who they are.
But not now. God is not of this world, nor does He pray for the world. Of course, the great false church teaches their followers otherwise. The church led by the wicked one, who is prince of the power of the air and the god of this world, the leader of the Many.
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