> General Discussions
MY NIECES WEDDING!?
Dave in Tenn:
I've had preconceived determinations all my life. I still do. But I've also found myself over and over violating those determinations. When I say they have never worked for me, I mean just that. If I screw up and do the right thing on occasion, it's not because I determined in my mind and doubled-down on my will power. It's because my heart and mind were changed. Sometimes these changes have been more or less instantaneous. Other times, they have occurred in stages over many, many years. Either way, it is Him working in me.
If preconceived determinations work for you, then who am I to complain? That's how He has formed you. Since they don't work so well for me, who am I to complain? Don't think I am without them. Just understand that my "experience" with them fails on two levels. First, that I am always RIGHT in my preconceived determinations. Second that I can do what seems right, (and likely is) but still find myself falling short--not just in other things, but in the DOING of what seems right. The Pharisee probably wasn't like the publican. But he didn't repent of what he WAS.
lostANDfound:
I hope you understand that I use the word 'determination' in the sense that through wisdom, through that still small voice, because of Jesus, I might determine what is right or wrong ahead of time, not that I have 'determined' my own steps. I fail over and over just as you say you do. I realize that could have been read wrong the way I wrote it. I just don't get the way you talk, "if I screw up and do the right thing on occasion ". I'm hoping that's self- deprecating humour. But what is the right thing? You have no idea what it is ahead of time? I might have lost the plot here.
Dave in Tenn:
Well, yes, that's sort of self-deprecating humor. Ignore that part if you want to. Sometimes I do the "right thing" with all that entails--the motive and the method. But when I do, it isn't because I fastidiously planned it before hand.
Just understand that my "experience" with them fails on two levels. First, that I am always RIGHT in my preconceived determinations. Second that I can do what seems right, (and likely is) but still find myself falling short--not just in other things, but in the DOING of what seems right. The Pharisee probably wasn't like the publican. But he didn't repent of what he WAS.
lauriellen:
Just my 2 cents worth....I see God as 'first cause'.....He created us, our hearts, all the circumstances that surround us, and bound us up in sin. I can't imagine that He didn't realize that all of this would CAUSE rapists, murderers, homosexuals, etc.....so He KNEW before the foundation....so to say it wasn't 'ordained' of God is just playing with words to me. All that is, is just exactly as he INTENDED it to be. All of the determination and effort in the universe can not change what God has already determined must be. Our hearts are like rivers of water, He turns them whichever way He desires. Why do we judge another mans' servent? God is the potter, who am I to say 'Why have you made so-and-so thus?' So what is the end of the matter? Just live. Do the best you can. Ask God to guide YOUR steps and then trust Him to do so. Don't judge how God directs someone elses' steps. Stop straining at the knat in your brothers' eye and worry about the beam in your own. None of us are perfect. None of us will be in this life. Stop judging people before the time, just because they sin differently than you. If God wants something changed, He is able. My hope is that He will at the appointed time.
indianabob:
Well said Lauriellen,
God made us too weak to resist sin and then put the forbidden tree in the midst of the garden where we couldn't miss it and then sent Satan in to tease Eve and lead her into an "opportunity" to learn how weak she was. And Adam watched her do it... ::)
The purpose of this whole exercise is to compel us to come to understand that we NEED God in our lives to provide guidance and love and an example to TRY to follow. We then spend our whole lives, once we are chosen and given an earnest of God's spirit, repenting of our sins daily. We learn that God's spirit works when we use it, but then in short order we face other temptations and no matter how well we do there is always a greater challenge. We cannot live a sinless life apart from God's spirit in FULL measure and we will not have full measure until God changes us and we become spiritually composed persons.
I think Ray Smith once said that Jesus didn't sin because God didn't let him sin. There had to be a sinless redeemer and God doesn't play dice with HIS perfect plan. God knew from the beginning that HIS plan would be successful. There was never any question.
ole Indiana bob
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version