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Get out of babylon
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: octoberose on September 15, 2016, 04:57:10 AM ---Though I still see the passages of scripture where Paul uses his Roman citizenship to save his life
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10. But Paul said, "I stand before the judgment seat of Caesar, where I have the right to be judged . . . 11. For on the one hand, if I am a wrongdoer and have done anything worthy of death, I do not object to dying; but if there is no truth in their accusations against me, no one can deliver me over to them. I appeal to Caesar" (Acts 25)
You pay taxes as you should. You obey laws as long as they do not violate your conscience before God. You may be an ambassador for Christ, but your passport says your home country. Your public schools are run with your money. Think about that. The military is run with your money. So to sit back and say you are above it all is disingenuous to me. We are In this world , just not of it.
I have a friend who, for the most part, watches no news because she hates getting wrapped up in it all- but she is a voracious reader and will read all about it when a book comes out. But i have to say that ignorance is not especially attractive to me. Obession is not attractive either so balance is key.
This life is about our hearts, not about laws. I am free in Christ and With that freedom I still vote. To not would violate my conscience- for many of you it would violate your conscience to vote. Though I have to admit, if ever I was not goung to vote this would be the year for it. So don't vote - I do not much care . The system does not care either as long as you send every dollar you make in January, February, March and probably April.
--- End quote ---
God is the judge.
We both know, by the great mercy and grace of God, that man has no free will and that He is fully in control. That He appoints kings and gives the kingdoms of men to whom He desires.
Paul was very smart. The spirit of God is the spirit of a sound mind. He used his head.
I pay taxes because its illegal not to. God says to be subject to the laws that be for there is truly no other power than His.
I have enough problems in myself and in my immediate life to be worried about what the carnal leaders of the nations are planning and doing. I trust God.
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
You are free from the law of sin and death, you are not free from law though.
You can do as you please rose. I am certainly not going to stop you.
God bless,
Alex
lareli:
Octoberose you said...
You pay taxes as you should. You obey laws as long as they do not violate your conscience before God. You may be an ambassador for Christ, but your passport says your home country. Your public schools are run with your money. Think about that. The military is run with your money. So to sit back and say you are above it all is disingenuous to me. We are In this world , just not of it.
It sounds like you're saying we have dual-citizenship? But Christ said that this is not our kingdom anymore than it is His kingdom... Or maybe I'm mistaken and He said we are not of this world anymore than He is of this world.
Taxes... I pay taxes voluntarily only when I buy something and pay a 'sales tax'. The income tax that's taken from my/our paychecks are taken. If I, you, or anyone tries to not pay your income tax, you will eventually be forced to pay through the threat of violence (incarceration etc).
If I'm 'in' the world and not 'of' the world than am I wrong in saying that nothing in or of this world belongs to me? The schools that my kids go to are not mine. The military that works for the nation is not mine. The money that pays for these things likewise is not mine.
One of my reasons for not voting is because, as the saying goes, a snowflake does not feel responsible for the avalanche. One vote being one snowflake. The avalanche being open for interpretation I suppose.
Btw Octoberose my understanding of these things is not the same as it was in the past. And my understanding of these things is not what it will be in the future, I'm sure. Time changes perspective I think. So I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you. Just offering the thoughts from my current perspective.
dave:
--- Quote from: Kat on September 15, 2016, 11:37:58 AM ---
--- Quote from: largeli on September 14, 2016, 05:48:26 PM ---Kat
Verse 9 in Rev 17 says "this calls for a mind with wisdom". Perhaps this is why I'm confused with your post... I've never claimed to be wise.
You said that the beast is "a great political system"
Here's Rev 17:9-11
This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. 11 The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.
So when it says the seven heads are seven hills, and also kings, so on and so forth.... Are all these also political systems? The beast is an eighth king. If by 'king' it means a great political system does that mean the other seven 'kings' are also great political systems? Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come... Are all these political systems?
Later in verse 16
16 The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire.
So the church (whore) rides the political system (beast) thinking she can control it/use it.. but the political system (beast) will hate the church (prostitute) the political system will bring the church to ruin, leave her naked; eat her flesh and burn her with fire?
Again I do not claim to be wise so if this is obvious to anyone please be patient.
Not to be 'political' but it is fascinating to me to see how ferociously American Christians are attacking the National Anthem protests of professional sports athletes for the last couple weeks. The woman (American Christians) is breathing fire towards any acts of blasphemy against their other god... the beast, the state, the political construct who's symbol is the flag.
--- End quote ---
My way of looking at the symbolism in prophecies is that they are not specific about a person, place or thing, but rather a way of speaking in general terms.
Ray gave us what some of these symbols, the woman - church, there in Revelation 17 is riding a beast.
Rev 17:3 Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness. I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was controlled by blasphemy. It had seven heads and ten horns. (ISV)
Rev 17:18 The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth."
Notice that the beast has seven (7) heads... Ray spoke of this number 7 in relation to the 7 churches meaning completeness in his LoF article #7 'Church Heresy Came Long Before Bible Errors.'
Rev 17:9 This calls for a mind that has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is sitting. They are also seven kings.
So we have 7 heads, that are 7 kings, that are 7 mountains on this beast that the woman rides... it seems to me this is speaking of all (the complete) carnal, corrupt world's governments of this age. It's the church and state, all the kings/rulers/presidents/dictators/czars/Popes/Archbishop or whatever, these are the mountains, the high ruling places/governments of the world in this age - this is the completely picture of what it's all about. All the religious rulers and all the national governments are in bed together, so to speak, but they are not friends, they more like hate each other, because they are both highly ambitious and sinister and they manipulate (I can't think of enough derogatory terms to use), but they wreak havoc with impunity.
This is the world we live in, both the governing body - those that make policy and laws that direct society and the religious leaders - those that direct to moral code of the citizens, are corrupt through and through and are working together to gain all the carnal worldly pleasures they can get, at the expense of the general populace. That's just the way of this age and nothing will/can change it until Christ returns.
So if that's what you want to participate in, then vote... or maybe do something useful like cut the grass or chop wood.
mercy, peace and love
Kat
--- End quote ---
Thank you Kat
Terry:
I know Gods plan will be what its going to be regardless if I vote or not to be honest I don't give a hoot about voting its watching the news I'm talking about and watching politics drags me down anyway, i feel the Lord is dealing with me to shun it anyway, the thing is I feel rough times are a head and watching the news helps me to plan for what ever might be coming I know we should save a little money for emergency's but how bout food it can't be wrong to do that can it, I mean if the economy collaps it would be nice to have a little put back, theres nothing wrong with preparing is it.
And Alex the thorn in one mans flesh could be different than the thorn in another we all have our own fight lest that's the way I see it, the things I fight with daily my wife says she never thinks of at all, I'm not nearly as seasoned as most here so please bear with me.
Dave I have never tried to split grass and mow wood, you funny
Terry
lilitalienboi16:
--- Quote from: Terry on September 15, 2016, 02:28:29 PM ---I know Gods plan will be what its going to be regardless if I vote or not to be honest I don't give a hoot about voting its watching the news I'm talking about and watching politics drags me down anyway, i feel the Lord is dealing with me to shun it anyway, the thing is I feel rough times are a head and watching the news helps me to plan for what ever might be coming I know we should save a little money for emergency's but how bout food it can't be wrong to do that can it, I mean if the economy collaps it would be nice to have a little put back, theres nothing wrong with preparing is it.
And Alex the thorn in one mans flesh could be different than the thorn in another we all have our own fight lest that's the way I see it, the things I fight with daily my wife says she never thinks of at all, I'm not nearly as seasoned as most here so please bear with me.
Dave I have never tried to split grass and mow wood, you funny
Terry
--- End quote ---
Hi Terry,
Apologies. I was not coming down on you at all. There is no wrong in preparing or planning, especially when we understand where the control really is.
There is a wonderful story of Elisha. One of my favorites. He was surrounded on all sides by his enemies and his servant was exceedingly fearful and asked him what they were to do. Elisha prayed that God would open his servant's eyes and when he did the servant saw all around Elisha flaming chariots of fire.
Jesus asked, Do you think I am not able to call down twelve legions of angels to my side?
We are well protected brother. I think of those beautiful things.
We are human, we will fear, we will desire control, we we will stumble, but God is greater than all.
God bless,
Alex
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