Eating from the beginning until after the flood

[cheekie3]

All -

Genesis 1:29 KJV):
And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

Genesis 2: 4-5 (KJV):
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,
5 and every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Genesis 9: 3-4 (KJV):
3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.

I have what might seem trivial questions, but I am not sure if Ray ever taught on all these questions:

1. Since the beginning (in Genesis 1 and 2) until after the flood, what did God tell mankind to drink?

2. Was there anything to eat for mankind before Genesis 2:5?

3. If the flood was only a local flood, and there were men and women elsewhere on the Earth, did God's new Commandment (after the flood) to eat meat apply to those not part of Noah's family?

4. What exactly does Genesis 9:4 mean?

Thank You.

Kind Regards.

George

[Kat]

Hi George,

I believe that Genesis 2 is after the creation work has been completed.

Gen 2:1  Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished.

So chapter 2 seems to speak specifically of the garden of Eden and how God prepared it for Adam. So I think that in verses 5 and 6, if it is looked at as a particular area of ground (not the whole earth) that God is making a garden and creating the conditions for that, then it makes sense.

Gen 2:4  These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens.
v. 5  When no bush of the field was yet in the land and no small plant of the field had yet sprung up—for the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the land, and there was no man to work the ground,
v. 6  but a mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground.

If God took a desolate place or a place before the growing season, that could explain the comment in verse 5 there was no plants there to sustain a habitat to live in/on. So God brought the rain in due season and made all to grow that would create a good place to live and have plenty to eat. As we see this is right before God forms Adam out of the ground in verse 7.

Gen 2:7  then the LORD God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.

Now before chapter 2 God had already given all things for mankind before Adam to eat.

Gen 1:30  and to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the heavens, and to every creeping thing on the earth, in which is breath of life, every green herb is for food:' and it is so. (Young's literal translation)

In Genesis 9 we are seeing where God is continuing to give His chosen people special food requirements, it's just stating the proper way to prepare an animal to eat. Blooding an animal at slaughter was still a requirement by Jews in the NT times as was mentioned for new Gentile converts to do in Acts 15:29.

Gen 9:4  The one thing you must not eat is meat with blood still in it; I forbid this because the life is in the blood. (GNB)

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[cheekie3]

Kat -

Thank you for your Post:

Hi George,

I believe that Genesis 2 is after the creation work has been completed.

Gen 2:1  Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished.

So chapter 2 seems to speak specifically of the garden of Eden and how God prepared it for Adam. So I think that in verses 5 and 6, if it is looked at as a particular area of ground (not the whole earth) that God is making a garden and creating the conditions for that, then it makes sense.

Gen 2:4  These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens.
v. 5  When no bush of the field was yet in the land and no small plant of the field had yet sprung up—for the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the land, and there was no man to work the ground,
v. 6  but a mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground.

If God took a desolate place or a place before the growing season, that could explain the comment in verse 5 there was no plants there to sustain a habitat to live in/on. So God brought the rain in due season and made all to grow that would create a good place to live and have plenty to eat. As we see this is right before God forms Adam out of the ground in verse 7.

Gen 2:7  then the LORD God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.

Now before chapter 2 God had already given all things for mankind before Adam to eat.

Gen 1:30  and to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the heavens, and to every creeping thing on the earth, in which is breath of life, every green herb is for food:' and it is so. (Young's literal translation)

In Genesis 9 we are seeing where God is continuing to give His chosen people special food requirements, it's just stating the proper way to prepare an animal to eat. Blooding an animal at slaughter was still a requirement by Jews in the NT times as was mentioned for new Gentile converts to do in Acts 15:29.

Gen 9:4  The one thing you must not eat is meat with blood still in it; I forbid this because the life is in the blood. (GNB)

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Genesis 2:4-5 does not make sense to me, as if there was already Fruit and Herbs on the Earth, why does this Scripture state that there was not yet any bushes or plants on the Earth:

Gen 2:4  These are the generations of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens.
v. 5  When no bush of the field was yet in the land and no small plant of the field had yet sprung up—for the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the land, and there was no man to work the ground,

In Genesis 2:4 it states that the previous verses were His creation, in the day that He made the Earth and the Heavens.

So, is the day stated in Genesis 2:4 referring to time of His six day Creation (plus the seventh day He rested from His work)?

Genesis 2:5 is a continuation of Genesis 2:4, and it clearly states that nothing had yet grown, so how could there be any food (i.e. fruit or herbs) for the animals and man to eat?

All this is before the mention of the Garden of Eden.

Am I misunderstanding Genesis 2:4-5?

Thank You.

Kind Regards.

George

[Kat]

In Genesis 2:4 it states that the previous verses were His creation, in the day that He made the Earth and the Heavens.

So, is the day stated in Genesis 2:4 referring to time of His six day Creation (plus the seventh day He rested from His work)?

Genesis 2:5 is a continuation of Genesis 2:4, and it clearly states that nothing had yet grown, so how could there be any food (i.e. fruit or herbs) for the animals and man to eat?

The creation was already "finished" as stated in the first verse of chapter 2, I do not think verse 5 is a continuation of the 'days' of creation from chapter 1... how could it be? That first part down to verse 4 of chapter 2 seems to be just a recap of the creation, but you can see this chapter is mainly about the garden and Adam. All that was not at the begin of creation, but billions of years later and the first humans were probably tens of thousands of years before Adam. So just by deduction you can make a reasonable assumption this is not the beginning 'days' of creation.

Adam was just formed some 6000 years ago and chapter 2 is mostly dedicated to the story of Adam and Eve and how the garden was a special place prepared for them to live in at first. We know that these things were not put in a way for all to plainly understand what is said, there is always room left for the world to be deceived. We too are all deceived at first, when we were part of the church, but we are no longer held in those grips and we really have to rethink what we once believed.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[Terry]

Kat I'm confused are you saying God created Adam 6000 yrs. ago?

Adam was just formed some 6000 years ago and chapter 2 is mostly dedicated to the story of Adam and Eve and how the garden was a special place prepared for them to live in at first. We know that these things were not put in a way for all to plainly understand what is said, there is always room left for the world to be deceived. We too are all deceived at first, when we were part of the church, but we are no longer held in those grips and we really have to rethink what we once believed.
Terry

[lilitalienboi16]

Kat I'm confused are you saying God created Adam 6000 yrs. ago?

Adam was just formed some 6000 years ago and chapter 2 is mostly dedicated to the story of Adam and Eve and how the garden was a special place prepared for them to live in at first. We know that these things were not put in a way for all to plainly understand what is said, there is always room left for the world to be deceived. We too are all deceived at first, when we were part of the church, but we are no longer held in those grips and we really have to rethink what we once believed.
Terry

Kat is correct. Adam is a recent creation and a special one. He knew God, walked with God, and learned from God. He was a son of God.

Luke 3:38 "...which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God."

His lineage would bring about the Isrealites through whom God would secure a bloodline to enter into the flesh by.

Man had been around as hunters for a long time prior to Adam being created. This is partly indicated by Genesis 1.

God bless,
Alex

[Terry]

Got it thanks Alex
Terry

[John from Kentucky]

Not all of us believe the Adam and Eve creation story is literal.  The Spirit has given some the understanding that the story is a metaphor or story.

Adam is the Hebrew word for mankind.  Eve is the mother of all living.  If Eve only goes back 6,000 years then she is not the mother of all living, only the mother of some.

Just as the seven days of creation is not literal but symbolic, so are the other aspects of the creation story symbolic. The contrast between eating herbs versus meat is also symbolic.  The symbolism is brought out in the New Testament.

Jesus said His words are Spirit and they are Life.

If you can only understand the Scriptures on a physical, literal level, then so be it.  You cannot go beyond what the Spirit has given you.  But the time is coming to grow up and put off childish things.  Ask God to give you deeper understanding of the Spiritual truths of the Scriptures.  Only Jesus can reveal the deeper understanding of Scriptures.

[lilitalienboi16]

Eve can also be understood to be the "mother of all living " because her decendant is Jesus who gives life to all those in Him. The rest are dead. "Let the dead burry the dead."

Therefor she would truly be the mother of all the living ones because only though her lineage can life be given, only through Jesus.

Multiple ways to look at what "mother of all living" implies.

God bless,
Alex

[cheekie3]

John from Kentucky -

Thank you for your response to my Post:

Not all of us believe the Adam and Eve creation story is literal.  The Spirit has given some the understanding that the story is a metaphor or story.

Adam is the Hebrew word for mankind.  Eve is the mother of all living.  If Eve only goes back 6,000 years then she is not the mother of all living, only the mother of some.

Just as the seven days of creation is not literal but symbolic, so are the other aspects of the creation story symbolic. The contrast between eating herbs versus meat is also symbolic.  The symbolism is brought out in the New Testament.

Jesus said His words are Spirit and they are Life.

If you can only understand the Scriptures on a physical, literal level, then so be it.  You cannot go beyond what the Spirit has given you.  But the time is coming to grow up and put off childish things.  Ask God to give you deeper understanding of the Spiritual truths of the Scriptures.  Only Jesus can reveal the deeper understanding of Scriptures.

I am very sorry indeed - but I really do not understand what you are trying to convey by the above.

If all of the Creation event is all but a metaphor, how can we eat and drink the food and drink of that metaphor?

1. When Jesus died, and was raised from the dead, and went to Heaven, Jesus came back down to Earth (and Jesus had His New Spiritual Body); and Jesus met some of His followers, and He cooked some fish and He (in His Spiritual Body) and they (in their physical bodies) ate the fish.

2. When Jesus went to the desert to be tempted of the devil for 40 days, He did not drink water; but afterwards Jesus needed to drink water.

If the above two Scriptural incidents are true, then there must still be a need for us to eat and drink in order to live on this Earth.

If you saying that the Genesis creation event is all a metaphor; are you also saying that there is nothing at all physical in this creation event?

How can we first have the 'physical' and then the 'spiritual' - if the 'physical' was not 'physical' but a metaphor (representing spiritual things)?

If Adam and Eve were not literal, then how can you and I be literal? Did not all mankind come out from Adam and Eve and / or mankind? Is mankind, and you and I, all metaphors?

I am sure that I am not the only one that has difficulty in understanding your statements.

Also, 'belief' in itself does not equate to 'Truth'. Truth is Truth.

I believe in The Living God.

It is The Living God that reveals Truth to us - hence 'The Truth' will set you free - and 'Love' casteth out fear.

How do I know that 'The Truth' sets me free? I know because, I have experienced it, right here in my literal, physical body that I have my being in.

How do I know that 'Love' casteth out fear? I know because, I have experienced 'Love' and 'Fear' in my own literal physical body, with my heart and mind that dwell in my own physical body.

John, you come across, as saying - 'George', you still do not get it, you look at only the physical, when only the spiritual matters. If I have misunderstood you John, please accept my apologies.

I live and have my being in a physical world; and I know that His Laws are Spiritual (and always have been). I know that His Words are Spirit and they are Life.

Any clarification that you wish to provide me will be greatly appreciated.

Thank You.

Kind Regards.

George

[dave]

Not all of us believe the Adam and Eve creation story is literal.  The Spirit has given some the understanding that the story is a metaphor or story.

Adam is the Hebrew word for mankind.  Eve is the mother of all living.  If Eve only goes back 6,000 years then she is not the mother of all living, only the mother of some.

Just as the seven days of creation is not literal but symbolic, so are the other aspects of the creation story symbolic. The contrast between eating herbs versus meat is also symbolic.  The symbolism is brought out in the New Testament.

Jesus said His words are Spirit and they are Life.

If you can only understand the Scriptures on a physical, literal level, then so be it.  You cannot go beyond what the Spirit has given you.  But the time is coming to grow up and put off childish things.  Ask God to give you deeper understanding of the Spiritual truths of the Scriptures.  Only Jesus can reveal the deeper understanding of Scriptures.

I understand it this way as well. If all we do is attempt to try and understand the beginning as natural we will find ourselves befuddled, pieces just don't fit properly. First the natural and then the spiritual. My thoughts are that the beginning is dual, most of christianity sees Genesis as natural and just look at what that has produced, God did it all in six 24 hour days, if that is block A then block B will not find a home. I personally have found a wealth of understanding in Gen. 1-4 and Ray's teaching on "day."

[John from Kentucky]

Hi George,

I do not want to argue or in any way put down anyone who believes the Adam and Eve creation story is literally true.

I believe all the Scriptures are true, some are just not literally true.  We do not have the time or space to discuss that point in depth.

I do of course believe that Jesus ate literal real food in those two examples you mentioned.  But Jesus did tell His disciples that He had food to eat they were not aware of.  They did not get what He was saying right away.

Ray once said the Scriptures were like a Charlie Brown story.  Children could read the story and have one understanding.  Adults could read the story and have another understanding.  That is not a put down, but just the way things are.

I read the creation story in early Genesis and understand it is not literal.  But it is chock full of amazing spiritual truths.  All by the power of God's Spirit.  To each his own as led by God.

[Kat]

Certainly the account of Adam and Eve is difficult, and that is because it is mostly symbolized, but that does not take away the reality of it. The things being symbolized are certainly literal. Yes of course there are many spiritual lessons in the symbols used, but you cannot discard the object of the lesson as not real.

Adam and Eve are symbols for God's people, which the Scripture focus on, that's how she was the mother of all living - God's chosen people. There was even a historical record of Adam genealogy that acknowledge his descendants, how could you say those were not literal?

Gen 5:1  This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, he made him in the likeness of God.

But what most cannot see is that there are two separate seeds that are in the world from this account, one of the seeds is from Adam and Eve, God's chosen and the line that would continue all the way to Christ's birth. While there is another real physical/literal seed spoken of... if you cannot see that the "serpent" was not a snake, but a living human and could only be those people living at the time Adam was formed and brought to life, then you cannot understand this.

Gen 3:14  So the LORD God said to the serpent: "Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle, And more than every beast of the field; On your belly you shall go, And you shall eat dust All the days of your life.
v. 15  And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel."

God's chosen people were always suppose to stay separate from the heathen nations and so were enmity and against the foreigners/strangers/Gentile. Of course God designed this whole scenario to make a distinction between His people and those without Him, He first did this in the physical, "a shadow of things to come" (Col 2:17) and then through Christ in the spiritual. So at first God's promises were only for the descendants of Abraham, all the way to Christ.

Gen 17:9  And God said to Abraham: "As for you, you shall keep My covenant, you and your descendants after you throughout their generations.

1Kings 8:41  "Moreover, concerning a foreigner, who is not of Your people Israel, but has come from a far country for Your name's sake

Lev 26:45  But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am the LORD.

Psa 105:42  For He remembered His holy promise, And Abraham His servant.
v. 43  He brought out His people with joy, His chosen ones with gladness.
v. 44  He gave them the lands of the Gentiles, And they inherited the labor of the nations,

Not until the door of salvation was opened to the Gentiles were they considered as equals and as Paul put it "of one blood."

Acts 17:26  And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings,

Eph 3:6  that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel,

Gal 3:14  that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Anyway just giving food for thought.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[lilitalienboi16]

Let me also add to something. Ray first pointed it out and Kat reminded me of it again. Moses had a book written by Adam. It's where Moses got all the information on Adam's lineage. It was in a book passed down.

It is the verse Kat quoted, 'this is the book of the generations of Adam.'

We also have the lineage of Jesus which in the book of Luke goes all the way back to Adam. That is a literal lineage. If Luke, an apostle of God who wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, believed Adam real enough to prove a literal point about the Messiah then shouldn't we also who have The Spirit indwelling?

Certainly the story is not easy to interpret but with the spirit of God the pieces fall into place both as a historical account and a spiritual testimony to the truth.

I don't necessarily agree that the serpent represents the people outside the garden who were not to be God's people because John refers to the dragon, satan, as the 'old serpent.' As far as I can tell, the use of 'old' is referencing back to 'in the beginning...' that serpent which was of old in the garden.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Now was Satan actually in the form of a literal serpent when he tempted eve or was he merely called a serpent because of how he behaved like one I cannot tell. Does it matter? I don't think so. But let it be remembered that a burning bush spoke to Moses and a donkey rebuked Balam so why should a spiritual being like satan taking on the form of a literal snake surprise us?

Indeed, my thoughts as well. I am open to these interpretations but I just can't see all of Genesis or even just Adam and Eve being merely symbolic individuals and not people from which an entire nation that would become God's chosen people descended from.

God bless,
Alex

[Kat]

Alex, I do agree that the serpent does represent Satan, and we have a number of examples of Satan being referred to when a real person was so influenced by him. Jesus referred to Peter in such a way.

Mat 16:23  But He turned and said to Peter, Go, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you do not savor the things that are of God, but those that are of men.

And of course there is Judas.

John 6:70  Jesus answered them, Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? And one of you is a devil?
v. 71  But he spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon; for it was he who was about to betray Him, being one of the Twelve.

John 13:2  And supper being ended, the devil having already put it into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray Him,

John 13:27  And after the morsel, then Satan entered into him. Then Jesus said to him, What you do, do quickly.

Of course the person was not literally Satan, but they took on the persona of his character in what they did. And we can see that it is Satan that is being referred to in tempting Eve, it just makes sense to me that it was through a person. And we know that throughout Scripture God has warned His people to stay away from the nations of the land that He drivers out before them. Maybe that is what's symbolized in do not eat the fruit of the tree...

Lev 20:22  'You shall therefore keep all My statutes and all My judgments, and perform them, that the land where I am bringing you to dwell may not vomit you out.
v. 23  And you shall not walk in the statutes of the nation which I am casting out before you; for they commit all these things, and therefore I abhor them.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

[lilitalienboi16]

Alex, I do agree that the serpent does represent Satan, and we have a number of examples of Satan being referred to when a real person was so influenced by him. Jesus referred to Peter in such a way.

Mat 16:23  But He turned and said to Peter, Go, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you do not savor the things that are of God, but those that are of men.

And of course there is Judas.

John 6:70  Jesus answered them, Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? And one of you is a devil?
v. 71  But he spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon; for it was he who was about to betray Him, being one of the Twelve.

John 13:2  And supper being ended, the devil having already put it into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray Him,

John 13:27  And after the morsel, then Satan entered into him. Then Jesus said to him, What you do, do quickly.

Of course the person was not literally Satan, but they took on the persona of his character in what they did. And we can see that it is Satan that is being referred to in tempting Eve, it just makes sense to me that it was through a person. And we know that throughout Scripture God has warned His people to stay away from the nations of the land that He drivers out before them. Maybe that is what's symbolized in do not eat the fruit of the tree...

Lev 20:22  'You shall therefore keep all My statutes and all My judgments, and perform them, that the land where I am bringing you to dwell may not vomit you out.
v. 23  And you shall not walk in the statutes of the nation which I am casting out before you; for they commit all these things, and therefore I abhor them.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

I see what you're saying about behaving according to the spirit of satan or as you put it, 'on the persona of his character.' That is certainly a possibility I can agree with.

God bless,
Alex

[santgem]

Alex, I do agree that the serpent does represent Satan, and we have a number of examples of Satan being referred to when a real person was so influenced by him. Jesus referred to Peter in such a way.

Mat 16:23  But He turned and said to Peter, Go, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you do not savor the things that are of God, but those that are of men.

And of course there is Judas.

John 6:70  Jesus answered them, Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? And one of you is a devil?
v. 71  But he spoke of Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon; for it was he who was about to betray Him, being one of the Twelve.

John 13:2  And supper being ended, the devil having already put it into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray Him,

John 13:27  And after the morsel, then Satan entered into him. Then Jesus said to him, What you do, do quickly.

Of course the person was not literally Satan, but they took on the persona of his character in what they did. And we can see that it is Satan that is being referred to in tempting Eve, it just makes sense to me that it was through a person. And we know that throughout Scripture God has warned His people to stay away from the nations of the land that He drivers out before them. Maybe that is what's symbolized in do not eat the fruit of the tree...

Lev 20:22  'You shall therefore keep all My statutes and all My judgments, and perform them, that the land where I am bringing you to dwell may not vomit you out.
v. 23  And you shall not walk in the statutes of the nation which I am casting out before you; for they commit all these things, and therefore I abhor them.

mercy, peace and love
Kat

Greetings!

John 13:27  And after the morsel, then Satan entered into him. Then Jesus said to him, What you do, do quickly

as said, this is the first time the spirit Satan literally entered into human.

for what?

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.Jhn 17:12


So that the scripture might be fulfilled.