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Author Topic: Ultimate Cause  (Read 1526 times)

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pg-91

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Ultimate Cause
« on: October 09, 2016, 02:55:52 PM »

Hi all,

What I have problems now with and would like to discuss with you is still this responsible/accountable thing. I mean when I'm thinking about the past I ask, why-why-why those things happened that way? I also ask the question, to which Paul says who am I to ask? That is: why I'm like this or that or behaved this way or that way. Of course I focus on the sad,negative things and mistakes, when I know also that for every good that happened I should be thankful to God. But I would love so much if my brother and classmate would live now. And then I start to think about responsibility.

I mean if someone accidentally hits someone by car, then God caused it 100% and takes 100% responsibility for the death? This is how I see it now. But then again, I've recently read somewhere from Ray that Hitler will have a very hard time forgive himself for his sins, but what is the difference between him and other people? Also I'm thinking what if I'm let's say 1% "responsible" for their death? It's so easy to get into deep depression and apathy.. and move on with life..

It's very strange to me that there is so little about guilt in the New Testament and also here in the forum I couldn't find too much material on it. What "you" adviced me some time ago was this: CLV: Matt 6:14-15 "For if you should be forgiving men their offenses, your heavenly Father also will be forgiving you." 15 Yet if you should not be forgiving men their offenses, neither will your Father be forgiving your offenses." I have the problem that this statement by Jesus was still before the crucifixion, so Jesus said it under the Old Covenant. I don't want to say at all, that what Jesus said before crucifixion has no meaning for us or don't have to follow it today or anything like that, I just think that it works the other way around in the New Testament, when we receive accept,feel, God's forgiveness, could we really forgive to other people or ourselves. ( I still have a hard time).

Would appreciate any thoughts on this topics.

Gyula

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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Ultimate Cause
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2016, 05:07:59 AM »

Gyula, that's a lot of questions, and I hope others will be around to tackle some of them.  It's late, and I just want to comment on the last bit.

...when we receive accept,feel, God's forgiveness, could we really forgive to other people or ourselves. ( I still have a hard time).

Would appreciate any thoughts on this topics.

Gyula

The just shall live by faith.  Give yourself time for faith to grow, and keep believing that what is past is not the end of things.  Remember also that what faith you have was given to you by God.  It's not something we can drum up on our own.

It's very unlikely you have anything over me in hurtful and regretful things done.  This is one of my favorite passages:

Isa 11:1  And a Shoot goes out from the stump of Jesse, and a Branch will bear fruit out of his roots.  That's Him.   
Isa 11:2  And the Spirit of Jehovah shall rest on Him; He will have the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and power, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of Jehovah.  That's Him.
Isa 11:3  And He is made to breathe in the fear of Jehovah. But He shall not judge by the sight of His eyes, nor decide by the hearing of His ears.  That's Him.
Isa 11:4  But He shall judge the poor in righteousness, and shall decide rightly for the meek of the earth. And He shall strike the earth with the rod of His mouth, and He shall cause the wicked to die with the breath of His lip.  That's Him and Judgement, both now and later.
Isa 11:5  And righteousness shall be the encircler of His loins, and faithfulness the encircler of His reins.
Isa 11:6  And the wolf
(That's me, when it is) shall live with the lamb; (That's me too, when it is.) and the leopard (me again) shall lie with the kid (sometimes that's me, too); and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little boy shall lead them.  (I hope that "little boy" is me, if I can be graced to become as a little child and lead those like me).
Isa 11:7  The cow and the bear shall feed, their young shall lie together; and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Isa 11:8  And the infant shall play on the hole of the asp; yea, the weaned child shall put his hand on the viper's den.
Isa 11:9  They shall not do evil, nor destroy in all My holy mountain. For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of Jehovah, as the waters cover the sea.


That's what I hope for.  Evil is vanquished and all is peace.  I hope you can experience at the least the comfort of this promise in faith, no matter whether you've been the leopard or the kid or some much more common combination of both. 
« Last Edit: October 10, 2016, 05:11:03 AM by Dave in Tenn »
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Flanagan

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Re: Ultimate Cause
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2016, 12:23:21 PM »

What is the difference between Hitler and other people?
I'd say Hitler was worse than most when it came to being complicit in so many deaths.  But at the same time Hitler gives me a sense of hope, knowing that God will convert him too and as it is written in Luke 7:47  Hitler will " love much "
God's Grace to you Gyula
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pg-91

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Re: Ultimate Cause
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2016, 05:17:37 PM »

Dave, thank you for showing me these verses and attaching little explanation to them. I hope for the same, just it's so difficult to experience this comfort or peace now... Yeah, my OP was quite clumsy, sorry for that, it's also because I have so many questions and don't understand so many things.. And the cycle with depression,apathy then sin goes on. I guess, I have a very hard time connect God's sovereignty with a lot of things which happened in the past, and find motivations for the future, and also understanding that God is the ultimate cause of everything. I feel myself at a similar place like a lot of people who send those e-mails to Ray, that are we just robots,puppets, what's the point if nothing couldn't have been otherwise and so on.. I know we have to learn about good and evil and we can make choices( not free also). But then I start thinking that I'm caused to do nothing now? That's what I feel..

Anyway, thank you Flanagan also for your thoughts, and I would still appreciate any further responses in this discussion.

Gyula
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Rhys

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Re: Ultimate Cause
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2016, 10:47:20 PM »

1 Corinthians 15:50

I tell you this, brothers: flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.


Your present flesh and blood does not understand the kingdom till God knocks the stuffing out of you. Understand that then you will understand about responsibility and accountability. God really does bring us through the fire. Not understanding and feeling like your head is going to explode is all part of the process.

God is growing us into something greater.


1 Peter 2:1-5

So put away all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander. Like newborn infants, long for the pure spiritual milk, that by it you may grow up into salvation— if indeed you have tasted that the Lord is good. As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.




Rhys

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I’ve noticed that I have changed in many ways since Bible Truths and the forum and one of them is living life much too seriously.

Another one is learning to rest in God and truly trust Him.

I'm still a work in progress.

Flanagan

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Re: Ultimate Cause
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2016, 12:58:18 PM »

Thanks Rhys I appreciated that
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pg-91

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Re: Ultimate Cause
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2016, 07:10:57 PM »

Thank you very much for the encouragement, Rhys!
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Musterseed

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Re: Ultimate Cause
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2016, 08:38:38 PM »

Thanks Rhys
He came like a thief for sure, I had no idea what was happening to me. It's been two years. Sometimes it's really hard but what I know for sure and keep focused on is that, it's all part of the plan and fight the good fight, keep going forward, as Paul said. The most difficult part was being percecuted by family members but I told them, don't make me choose because I will choose GOD.
I meant it and they have given me space so now I keep my Faith between me and The Lord and try to live low key and in peace. I think the Lord is working on my husband, he is starting to open his eyes a little. THank God and Thank God for Ray Smith and this forum . I have been praying for a fellowship. By the way, do you know that the name Smith means Shepard. So many miracles. Our Lord is so very good.
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" No man can come to me,except the Father draw him"
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indianabob

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Re: Ultimate Cause
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2016, 02:41:58 PM »

Hi Nova Scotia,

My ancestors were Macphersons and Berrells,
I'm interested in names too.
My search of Smith produced the following comments.

"Derived from the Anglo-Saxon smitan, meaning "to smite or strike," SMITH and its derivations are an occupational name for a man who works with metal (smith or blacksmith), one of the earliest jobs for which specialist skills were required. It is a craft that was practiced in all countries, making the surname and its derivations the most common of all surnames. Smith still tops the list of most popular surnames in England and America, and is also a very common last name in Germany, Ireland, Scotland, Canada and Australia."

So maybe God is using Ray Smith to smite our false beliefs and bring correction.  :D

So pleased to have you on our forum.
Please write more about yourself.
old Indiana Bob
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lostANDfound

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Re: Ultimate Cause
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2016, 07:16:24 PM »

My husbands mom is a MacPherson of Nova Scotia. Maybe you're a distant Uncle Indiana Bob?   ;D
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Learning, learning.  Ever so slowly.

Musterseed

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Re: Ultimate Cause
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2016, 09:13:52 PM »

Hello Indianabob,
My name is Pamela. I do live in Nova Scotia but I retired here four years ago after living in Yellowknife( Canada's far north) for 30 yrs.I am originally from and grew up in Newfoundland. Have you heard of it, remember when 9/11 happened, well Newfoundland was where all the planes were diverted too. It is a magnificent place, absolutely beautiful. An island in the Atlantic and ironically known all over Canada as THE ROCK. We still use the word Ye as the pleural of you and many other biblical words that I did not know were biblical until I read the bible. Newfoundlanders are descendants of mostly Irish , and Old English, our history is mostly the fishing industry. We have many dialects. I am married with two children and three grandchildren, who live far away and I miss very much. I love animals and hate cooking, lol. Your turn.😄
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" No man can come to me,except the Father draw him"
                                   (John 6: 44)
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