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Daniel, veganism and meat
octoberose:
I'm not sure why this is carnal, when the importance of the subject is the spiritual -
Romans 14:20,21- Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats. It is good not to eat meat and drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble.
I Corinthians 11:29 For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgement on himself. ***
Ephesians 5:18-20, And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit, addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs...
I John 2:16 For all that is in the world- the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and the pride in possessions- is not from the Father is from the world.
Galatians 5:24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
I Corinthians 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own..
Romans 12:1 I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.
Galatians 5:16-26 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and your will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desire of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.
Romans 13:14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.
Philippians 3:18-19 For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things.
I Corinthians, 10:31 So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.
And that's just some of the verses in the new testament- I would be writing for long time if I included the old. God is not afraid of this subject- He is not upset by it, not surprised by it. He made us this way. Every dark thing shows up in the light. There is something here for us to learn- at least for me there is. If it offends you and you think it is just not spiritual enough then leave this alone. But I think you're missing the point.
cheekie3:
octoberose -
Thank you for posting these very helpful Scriptures:
--- Quote from: octoberose on October 27, 2016, 03:39:59 AM ---I'm not sure why this is carnal, when the importance of the subject is the spiritual -
Romans 14:20,21- Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for anyone to make another stumble by what he eats. It is good not to eat meat and drink wine or do anything that causes your brother to stumble.
I Corinthians 11:29 For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgement on himself. ***
Ephesians 5:18-20, And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit, addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs...
I John 2:16 For all that is in the world- the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and the pride in possessions- is not from the Father is from the world.
Galatians 5:24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
I Corinthians 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own..
Romans 12:1 I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.
Galatians 5:16-26 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and your will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desire of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.
Romans 13:14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires.
Philippians 3:18-19 For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ. Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things.
I Corinthians, 10:31 So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.
And that's just some of the verses in the new testament- I would be writing for long time if I included the old. God is not afraid of this subject- He is not upset by it, not surprised by it. He made us this way. Every dark thing shows up in the light. There is something here for us to learn- at least for me there is. If it offends you and you think it is just not spiritual enough then leave this alone. But I think you're missing the point.
--- End quote ---
Are all men and women living in physical bodies? Are we here on this Forum and on this site only to learn Spiritual Truths, and nothing about our physical well being?
Do we all need to breathe to live? Is breathing a physical necessity? Is there anything spiritual about breathing so we can have our being in our bodies?
Did Ray not say that he did not take good care of his body, and he hoped that others did a better job than he did? Is taking care of our bodies a spiritual or a natural physical matter?
Is smoking, and alcohol, and drug taking harmful to our bodies? Is there anything spiritual about these natural matters?
Is it appropriate to seek answers to the following questions:
1. Are there two or three Scriptural Witnesses to confirm that before Noah's flood, men, women, children, and all other living creatures ate meat?
2. If no creatures or mankind ate meat up to Noah's flood, is it better or worse for mankind (and members of His Elect) to be Vegans today?
3. If acidic foods are bad for our bodies, and alkaline foods (which are in the main, fruit, vegetables, berries, nuts and herbs) are good for our bodies, (as no disease can live in an alkaline environment) - should anyone eat meat (which is acidic)?
4. What (Old and / or) New Testament Scriptures confirm that mankind can now eat any meat from living creatures, since after Noah's flood God Commanded mankind to only eat disease inhibiting animals (and not disease promoting animals); or does Peter's vision about clean and unclean animals, refer both to eating any meat, and also to non-Israelites being granted Salvation by God Himself?
5. Should we be concerned by what is put into our foods today, including GMO, etc, (and I am sure that most of us have suffered the pain of food poisoning at least once in our lives) - or is being prayerfully thankful for our food the way Our Heavenly Father cleanses our food for us?
Thank you.
Kind Regards.
George
Doug:
Hi Octoberose,
I do not think you or anyone here is trying to insist or establish food rules. Everyone is free to choose what they are going to eat and certainly would not judge what others eat. In the scheme of things that is not what we are striving for but to submit to God's will.
While I totally agree avoiding sugar, processed food, GMO, etc. is very helpful to good health it is also true many eat any and everything that we would consider harmful and thrive to an old age. For me and I expect others even food that is supposedly helpful can be very damaging. If these discussions can benefit some then they are useful.
Ray spoke about his diet trying to slow or beat his cancer. To me his was extreme with the amount of vitamins and herbs. However that was the path he took. Ultimately it is in God's hands which is a great comfort. To me it's not about extending life (as if we could) but just feeling as good as possible.
I think in many ways health issues keep us close to God so whatever we struggle with is ultimately a blessing.
I pray for everyone here, this is the place I find comfort.
lilitalienboi16:
Dear George,
You are very sorely mistaken about your understanding of acidic and alkaline and how foods alter our bodies PH. To put it shortly, they dont. You lack very very basic understanding of how the body metabolizes food and how its then absorbed. As soon as food hits the stomach it enters a ph environement of roughly 2 and any of the food's own acidic or basic qualities are immediately obliterated in that very acidic stomach. From that point on it is turned into a chyme with the churning and mixing actions of the stomach and digestive enzymes break all food molecules down to their most basic anatomical and molecular structures where they are then absorbed by the junenum, duodenum, and illeum harmlessly. Onceinside the entercytes, many are further packaged and transported through the blood stream attached to chaperone proteins (such as fats and cholesterol transported in chylomicrons, vldl, ldl, ildl, hdl). The bloods PH is very highly regulated to a level of 7.4 which rarely if ever changes except under dire pathological conditions which have nothing to do with "acidic and alkalinic foods." Im talking things like renal failure or respiratory failure.
I dont mean to come off harsh but what you are doing is part of the problem on the internet. The spread of misinformation. If you want to talk about health and disease first understand the most basic of principles. Which you do not. Learn acid and base chemistry and understand biochemistry. Learn amino acids, carbohydrates, lipids, vitamins, and how these many various groups are affected by ph. To do that this you will need at the very least a year of organic chemistry class to come to any satisfying level of understanding. Then learn all you did in the context of the machine that is the human body which regulates and processes everything you put into it. This requires thorough understanding of the molecular and cellular workings of the body. Meaning basic cell biology, molecular biology, genetic biology, etc... and then the larger systems and subjects such as oncology, hematology, nephrology, pulmonology etc...You can take courses on most of these at your local community college. Once you learn these basic things, then learn about disease processes and pathology but make sure you understand physiology first. Lastly, please do not believe everything you read on the internet. Go to your healthcare professional, whoever your personal doctor is, and speak to them about this subject. You will find that what you thought you knew, you really did not. Its why individuals commit their entire lives studying health and disease. Its not something you learn in the later decades of your life off the internet of all places. Theres lots of bad bad bad wrong out right decietful infornation out there especially on health. Usually its tied to buying some miracle book on health sold by the website or the websites own "natural" products.
God bless,
Alex
P.S. its not true that no disease can live in alkaline condition. Thats absolute nonsense. If your body becomes too basic, YOU DIE! If your body becomes too acidic, YOU DIE too! Its why the body's blood ph is very tightly regulated at 7.4 and why no food is going to change that. It only changes when their is seriouse disease process at play such as renal failure or respiratory problems.
lareli:
Is there a spiritual component to paying for and consuming tortured animals versus humanely raised animals?
I couldn't do the things that people do to factory farmed animals myself, so there's a spiritual component of hypocrisy for me to pay someone else to do the dirty work. Animals that are suffering from birth to death. I wonder what biological changes occur in an animal that is constantly stressed, afraid, and suffering. Could their suffering be transferred to the consumer on some spiritual level? I dunno.
Alex maybe you could help here. Do biological changes occur when someone is constantly stressed/afraid? Is it different for animals?
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