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Author Topic: Daniel, veganism and meat  (Read 3265 times)

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cheekie3

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Re: Daniel, veganism and meat
« Reply #40 on: October 29, 2016, 05:28:50 AM »

Alex -

Dear All,

It has come to my attention that my posts, especially my reply to george on this page, where offensive and rude.

To George, I am deeply sorry, I meant no offense what so ever. What I said I said in love. If you can believe that... The internet makes it hard to get those feelings across, especially when what you are writing is meant to correct and educate. Its a little easier when we all speak the same language as with scripture but in medicine and all the science involved, its hard, its like i'm speaking another language that even I don't know how to communicate at times.

This is why I was hesitant to join this discussion. It appears I should not participate in these discussions regarding disease, health, nutrition, medicine, vaccines, etc... any longer. I have not figured out a way to communicate what I've learned without it either sounding alien or come off as condescending and arrogant.

Again, George, you know my heart is filled with a deep sincere love for you and I'm so sorry if I hurt you. I am ashamed if that is the case. I can see in my own post where my words may have wounded and I should have been softer, slower, more compassionate, or simply said nothing at all. I think I tried to say too much in one post that could have been broken down into smaller, nicer, slower pieces.

I am making this apology public to anyone else who felt offended by my post. I am sorry to you as well. Know that I care and love you all and my intention was never to wound. I regret how I responded. I just don't know how to deal with the misinformation and the disparity of knowledge that exists in regards to these subjects and the various levels of understanding that everyday folks acquire from their own studies. As you can see I have wrestled with this issue before. I see similar discussions on my facebook page all the time between friends but I stay out of it. I should have done likewise here. I'm still learning.. i'll figure this out God willing. Worst comes to worst i'll just stay out of these discussions. If you ever need my opinion, it'll be there for you.

Sincerely,
Alex

There is no need to apologise, as I know fully aware that what you provided was out of love.

I know that you were very careful in what you wrote.

I have not had a chance to fully digest what you said - but I will.

Thank you for your support and concern.

I always appreciate your input and posts.

Kind Regards.

George
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The Acts of The Apostles 1:8 (NIBEV) "But you shall receive power when His Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

lostANDfound

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Re: Daniel, veganism and meat
« Reply #41 on: October 29, 2016, 02:28:48 PM »

For the record, I have no idea who said what to Alex privately to make him feel that a huge apology was necessary, and I had no part in it.  I was simply commenting that I appreciate it when people apologize if they feel they have made a mistake.  It's something that I really value and strive to do myself.  And again I say, it shows maturity when we can do this.


James 5:16
Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.
 
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Daniel, veganism and meat
« Reply #42 on: October 29, 2016, 04:17:12 PM »

George, I am relieved that you were not offended or hurt by my post. It puts my heart at ease. The last thing I want is to hurt anyone, especially with my understanding. Knowledge should not be a weapon to hurt others. There is enough suffering and pain in this world as we all walk through our experience of evil. All I have, I have received from God. My walk in life may be different than yours but it doesn't change who I am. I am nothing more than your brother in Christ first and always.

I have received much good advice from everyone on how to proceed in this matter. I see that many people value my opinion from the knowledge that God has seen fit I should receive from these earthly and worldy instructors.

I am grateful that you all are understanding and patient and willing to hear me out though I am but one voice in a sea of confusion and deception when it comes to all things health and science related.

If I speak something that is contrary to what you learned in your personal studies on these subjects know that it is not "big pharma" or "GMO" talking to you but your brother in Christ. By the grace of our Lord, I strive to be a physician first to the family and household of God, and then to his future children--I serve no one but the Lord Jesus Christ.

Medicine, health, disease, is such a personal topic. It brings many of us feelings of refreshing but also much sorrow and pain. It is only human to want to understand this monstrosity of a subject in all its complexity and to control it. Fortunately, we of all know that, the one who is in control is God Almighty and not us. None of us can stay the hand of death or disease. Knowledge cannot save and as the saying goes, "Physician, heal thyself." Even if someone knew it all, even if they were right, they will still die unless God Almighty make His appearing again soon. So rest in Him. Find health where you can. Much health is found in peace and joy in God. Perhaps the most important health is found in Him. The health of a peaceful and restful spirit. Our bodies will perish. As paul said, "even though outward man perish, inwardly we are renewed daily."

I pray everyday for His appearing. Sometimes, I weep and beg for His appearing because I am so tired of this world and all its suffering. Not simply for my own suffering but for the creations. I see how awful humanity is to itself. I see how awful disease and suffering is around the world. Sometimes tears are the only thing i can find in the face of such pain and suffering. Despite everything I know and have been given.

God bless,
Alex
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

John from Kentucky

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Re: Daniel, veganism and meat
« Reply #43 on: October 29, 2016, 07:20:29 PM »

John, your mom is blessed to have you there with her, being her advocate and giving her the care she needs. Praying that answers will come and health will be restored if God wills it.  I've never 'heard' you so rattled. I'm sorry - I know it's hard.

Rattled?  I do not think so Rose.  I have emotions but being rattled is not is not something I do.  Maybe the closest to rattling I recall is about 30 years ago my wife telling me about her affair.  Then the worse was losing my two sons in the divorce.  I considered shooting her, her lover, her lawyer, the judge, and my lawyer, and taking my two sons with me to the wild country.  But it was about 100 years too late for that much fun so I decided to stay unrattled and be civilized.

The main reason I do not get rattled is because I worship the One True God, the Power behind all things.  He is always with me.  We are always in contact.  He always answers my prayers because I only pray the one prayer He ever answers; Father, your will be done.  Works every time.

When I stand on the sands of the sea, and look behind me, I see where He has blessed me and protected me and has guided me in all things.
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John from Kentucky

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Re: Daniel, veganism and meat
« Reply #44 on: October 29, 2016, 07:36:56 PM »

Hi Alex, 

You asked about my mom.  The last three days she has been in the hospital.  Yesterday, she was near death.  The doctors could not rouse her.  The doctors and specialists gave her every type of test they could think of.  All the tests came back negative.  They could not determine the underlying cause of her problems.

The good news is today she is coming back to her old self and showing great recovery.  My sister and I are taking turns being with her.  The doctors determined she had a TIA or mini-stroke.  The effects seem to be short term.

Better you than me becoming a doctor.  I hate hospitals and being around sick people.  Jesus had the best idea.  Heal everybody.  Thanks for asking about my mom.

John
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John from Kentucky

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Re: Daniel, veganism and meat
« Reply #45 on: October 29, 2016, 08:26:44 PM »

Alex,

Never regret speaking the truth about anything.  Remember Jesus saying that the truth will set us free.  Also, recall the motto of this website, "Exposing Those Who Contradict".

Statements have been made in this thread that do not agree with Scripture.  That they did not eat meat before the flood.  Yet we have Adam's son Abel who was a Shepherd.  He sacrificed the best of his flock to God Who accepted his sacrifice.  So, did Abel raise his sheep as pets.?  Or did he eat their wool?  Or, is it possible, that he killed the sheep he raised and ate their meat to feed himself and others?  Which is what shepherds do.

But the best scriptural proof that it is O.K. to eat meat is that Jesus ate meat.  The best meat.  Good red beef meat.

In Genesis 18, Yahweh  (Jesus) met with Abraham under the oak trees of Mamre.  Abraham fed Jesus a meal of beef, bread, and some kind of cheese or butter dish (animal byproducts).

Abraham not only fed Him the unpardonable beef, but it was young tender beef or veal.

Just think of that.  Mean old Abraham may have taken the young calf from its mother.  Mother cow may have known the baby was taken to be eaten.

The Scriptures do not indicate that Yahweh spit the beef out and upbraided Abraham for feeding Him meat.  Looks like Jesus scarfed all the food down without complaint.

So if Jesus ate red meat, how can it ever be wrong for us to eat red meat?  A question for all the scriptural scholars out there.

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cheekie3

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Re: Daniel, veganism and meat
« Reply #46 on: October 30, 2016, 02:51:28 AM »

Alex -

Very Well Put:

George, I am relieved that you were not offended or hurt by my post. It puts my heart at ease. The last thing I want is to hurt anyone, especially with my understanding. Knowledge should not be a weapon to hurt others. There is enough suffering and pain in this world as we all walk through our experience of evil. All I have, I have received from God. My walk in life may be different than yours but it doesn't change who I am. I am nothing more than your brother in Christ first and always.

I have received much good advice from everyone on how to proceed in this matter. I see that many people value my opinion from the knowledge that God has seen fit I should receive from these earthly and worldy instructors.

I am grateful that you all are understanding and patient and willing to hear me out though I am but one voice in a sea of confusion and deception when it comes to all things health and science related.

If I speak something that is contrary to what you learned in your personal studies on these subjects know that it is not "big pharma" or "GMO" talking to you but your brother in Christ. By the grace of our Lord, I strive to be a physician first to the family and household of God, and then to his future children--I serve no one but the Lord Jesus Christ.

Medicine, health, disease, is such a personal topic. It brings many of us feelings of refreshing but also much sorrow and pain. It is only human to want to understand this monstrosity of a subject in all its complexity and to control it. Fortunately, we of all know that, the one who is in control is God Almighty and not us. None of us can stay the hand of death or disease. Knowledge cannot save and as the saying goes, "Physician, heal thyself." Even if someone knew it all, even if they were right, they will still die unless God Almighty make His appearing again soon. So rest in Him. Find health where you can. Much health is found in peace and joy in God. Perhaps the most important health is found in Him. The health of a peaceful and restful spirit. Our bodies will perish. As paul said, "even though outward man perish, inwardly we are renewed daily."

I pray everyday for His appearing. Sometimes, I weep and beg for His appearing because I am so tired of this world and all its suffering. Not simply for my own suffering but for the creations. I see how awful humanity is to itself. I see how awful disease and suffering is around the world. Sometimes tears are the only thing i can find in the face of such pain and suffering. Despite everything I know and have been given.

God bless,
Alex

I agree wholeheartedly with what you have 'spoken' above from your heart and mind.

These words you have 'spoken' above could easily have been posted by many others here on this Forum, including myself.

I am very grateful that you have patiently with love 'spoken' these words to all of us, including yourself.

I agree that we must all be on our guard - as our enemy indeed is a deceiver, and a liar and attacks our (hearts) and minds - and it is very difficult to determine what is false and what is true.

I have been with one of my younger brothers for the last two days, as it took a long time for him to be properly diagnosed with pneumonia, and although he is a very strong man physically and very strong willed, his strength has been zapped, and he currently has a very dry throat due to the very strong antibiotics given given, causing him to have extreme difficulty in drinking and eating, and sleeping. I was amazed how many times he had to go and see Doctors and the Emergency Department before getting the correct treatment; and even then, some nurses did not do their jobs correctly - and he observed that many appeared not to care, even ignoring him, when he simply asked for more water.

Very Kind Regards.

George
 
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cheekie3

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Re: Daniel, veganism and meat
« Reply #47 on: October 30, 2016, 03:10:28 AM »

John -

Hi Alex, 

You asked about my mom.  The last three days she has been in the hospital.  Yesterday, she was near death.  The doctors could not rouse her.  The doctors and specialists gave her every type of test they could think of.  All the tests came back negative.  They could not determine the underlying cause of her problems.

The good news is today she is coming back to her old self and showing great recovery.  My sister and I are taking turns being with her.  The doctors determined she had a TIA or mini-stroke.  The effects seem to be short term.

Better you than me becoming a doctor.  I hate hospitals and being around sick people.  Jesus had the best idea.  Heal everybody.  Thanks for asking about my mom.

John

I too am praying and trusting Our Heavenly Father that His Will Be Done for your mother and your family.

May He Bless you all.

Very Kind Regards.

George
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The Acts of The Apostles 1:8 (NIBEV) "But you shall receive power when His Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

cheekie3

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Re: Daniel, veganism and meat
« Reply #48 on: October 30, 2016, 04:00:50 AM »

John -

Thank you for Posting this:

Alex,

Never regret speaking the truth about anything.  Remember Jesus saying that the truth will set us free.  Also, recall the motto of this website, "Exposing Those Who Contradict".

Statements have been made in this thread that do not agree with Scripture.  That they did not eat meat before the flood.  Yet we have Adam's son Abel who was a Shepherd.  He sacrificed the best of his flock to God Who accepted his sacrifice.  So, did Abel raise his sheep as pets.?  Or did he eat their wool?  Or, is it possible, that he killed the sheep he raised and ate their meat to feed himself and others?  Which is what shepherds do.

But the best scriptural proof that it is O.K. to eat meat is that Jesus ate meat.  The best meat.  Good red beef meat.

In Genesis 18, Yahweh  (Jesus) met with Abraham under the oak trees of Mamre.  Abraham fed Jesus a meal of beef, bread, and some kind of cheese or butter dish (animal byproducts).

Abraham not only fed Him the unpardonable beef, but it was young tender beef or veal.

Just think of that.  Mean old Abraham may have taken the young calf from its mother.  Mother cow may have known the baby was taken to be eaten.

The Scriptures do not indicate that Yahweh spit the beef out and upbraided Abraham for feeding Him meat.  Looks like Jesus scarfed all the food down without complaint.

So if Jesus ate red meat, how can it ever be wrong for us to eat red meat?  A question for all the scriptural scholars out there.

I know that Abraham served meat, and meat was eaten - and I know that Cain was a shepherd. I am seeking His Understanding from His Revealed Knowledge about His Wisdom on what is acceptable for us to eat; as He is Our Teacher.

You know full well, that when you actually know a certain Truth, you know you know, and there is nothing that can shake that Truth from you.

I am not certain anymore on what we should eat, for two reasons. Firstly, the way our food is grown (both animal based and plant based), in that we really do not know what we are eating with all that is put in our food to preserve it, etc. Secondly, the growing number of mankind becoming Vegans because of the way our animals, fish and chickens / birds are treated and what they are injected with.

It may be clear to you and others on the Forum on what is acceptable for us to drink and eat, but I am researching this, as it deeply concerns me.

As I said, I used to accept and ate in prayerful thanksgiving in His Faith trusting that He would cleanse all that I drank and ate if it was poisoned or contaminated, and this included meat and fish, and eggs and dairy products.

For the record, I am not offended by anything that has been posted on this topic.

By way of a very silly comparison, I would not drink water that has been affected by whatever chemicals or whatever they put in when 'fracking' for oil, as it is far from clear and looks disgusting; and without being political, I am in full agreement, with the North Dakota native Americans that 'water is life' as there is a very high likelihood that the oil pipe may burst and contaminate their water.

And as I said, I know the spiritual aspects - but I am researching what is good and acceptable for our physical bodies, which affect our physical health and our (hearts and) minds.

What I know as Truth I 'drink and eat' as that is the way I understand it becomes a part of me (permanently).

What I am not certain about, I 'park' until He Confirms The Truth of the matter.

If He Confirms The Truth of this particular matter to me early, all well and good - otherwise, I will continue to 'seek His Face' until He Reveals His Truth to me personally.

Very Kind Regards.

George

 

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John from Kentucky

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Re: Daniel, veganism and meat
« Reply #49 on: October 30, 2016, 04:53:42 AM »

George, 

May God guide your search for the Truth.

John
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cheekie3

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Re: Daniel, veganism and meat
« Reply #50 on: October 30, 2016, 06:52:36 AM »

John -

George, 

May God guide your search for the Truth.

John

Thank you.

I am sure He will in His Own Time.

May He Graciously Grant your mother a full recovery and a very long life.

I understand your pain that you suffered - and May He (if He has not already) build your character to be Perfect (as He is Perfect) so that you are 'Well Able' to take each and every attack and knock, full frontal, and still stand strong in Him.
 
Very Kind Regards.

George

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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Daniel, veganism and meat
« Reply #51 on: October 30, 2016, 01:42:42 PM »

Amen. Amen!
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cheekie3

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Re: Daniel, veganism and meat
« Reply #52 on: December 06, 2016, 12:23:01 PM »

John -

I agree with what you have stated below, regarding the segments I have bolded:

Alex,

Never regret speaking the truth about anything.  Remember Jesus saying that the truth will set us free.  Also, recall the motto of this website, "Exposing Those Who Contradict".

Statements have been made in this thread that do not agree with Scripture.
  That they did not eat meat before the flood.  Yet we have Adam's son Abel who was a Shepherd.  He sacrificed the best of his flock to God Who accepted his sacrifice.  So, did Abel raise his sheep as pets.?  Or did he eat their wool?  Or, is it possible, that he killed the sheep he raised and ate their meat to feed himself and others?  Which is what shepherds do.

But the best scriptural proof that it is O.K. to eat meat is that Jesus ate meat.  The best meat.  Good red beef meat.

In Genesis 18, Yahweh  (Jesus) met with Abraham under the oak trees of Mamre.  Abraham fed Jesus a meal of beef, bread, and some kind of cheese or butter dish (animal byproducts).

Abraham not only fed Him the unpardonable beef, but it was young tender beef or veal.

Just think of that.  Mean old Abraham may have taken the young calf from its mother.  Mother cow may have known the baby was taken to be eaten.

The Scriptures do not indicate that Yahweh spit the beef out and upbraided Abraham for feeding Him meat.  Looks like Jesus scarfed all the food down without complaint.

So if Jesus ate red meat, how can it ever be wrong for us to eat red meat?  A question for all the scriptural scholars out there.


The Scripture you quoted from Genesis 18 is after the flood of Noah, and not before.

The issue I have is this, certainly Abel was a Shepherd, and did indeed offer the best of his Flock to YahWeh - but, did YahWeh Command mankind to eat the meat of any animal before the flood? I have searched and researched, and I cannot find any Commandment from YahWeh that mankind before the flood were to eat the meat of animals, or for animals to eat the meat of other animals - as ALL were Commanded to eat of the green of the land (plants, berries, vegetables, fruit, nuts, etc).

And the reason I have an issue with this, is that we must not assume anything, and have at least two Scriptural Witnesses to prove any Truth in The Holy Scriptures.

I do not want to be a pain and go on and on - but, I at least, find it difficult to accept that animals and mankind ate the meat of animals, birds, fish, or bugs before the flood; otherwise, why did YahWeh after Noah's flood state that mankind can eat the flesh of animals etc, if mankind already did eat the flesh of animals:
 
Genesis 9:3 (KJV):
Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

Perhaps, this was YahWeh reasserting an earlier Commandment to eat the flesh of living animals / birds / fish / bugs - and if so, how can YahWeh reassert something if there is only an assumption that mankind and animals already ate the flesh of animals / birds / fish / bugs?
 
Maybe it is just me, but I need a couple of Holy Scriptures before I will accept any of His Truths.

Warmest Regards.

George

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Musterseed

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Re: Daniel, veganism and meat
« Reply #53 on: December 06, 2016, 03:04:16 PM »

Well now, what a wonderful discussion. We are being taught today about many things. Food, Medicine, Forgiveness, Compassion, Humility, Patience, and mostly Love.
The Lord is teaching us how to grow, to not be so easily offended, how to walk in Our brethrens shoes and as His children, to play nice. I think we make Our Lord proud with our learning abilities and our true feelings for one another. We lift each other up.Most playgrounds are full of bullies. We are Blessed to have our very own secret playground. What a wonderful gift from Our Father. Thank you Lord. John, it's nice to hear your mom is feeling better, George, I hope your brother gets well.
I believe the health care system everywhere is stressed to the max and some lose compassion or administers just tie their hands. I worked in a hospital for thirty years, and I avoid them as much as possible.Alex , I love reading your posts, they keep my old brain focused and challenged and isn't that what we are supposed to do, if we all agreed on everything,we would be like boring sheep 🐑 hehe.Guess what, I quit smoking. Five months now. I was a pack a day smoker for over thirty years and I prayed to God to please help me quit, I was so sick of its slavery. Two months later, not only did I quit but my husband also, cold turkey. Ahh the Lord is so good and I'm pretty sure he's always looking into the school window to see how His students are doing. He just says"Follow Me"
And we drop everything and run to Him.   In Christ Our Lord, 🙏🏼 Amen.          Pamela

BTW.  I believe New Jerusalem will be vegetarian, no more slaughter of animals. Just my Hope.
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cheekie3

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Re: Daniel, veganism and meat
« Reply #54 on: December 06, 2016, 04:06:45 PM »

Pamela -

Well Presented:

Well now, what a wonderful discussion. We are being taught today about many things. Food, Medicine, Forgiveness, Compassion, Humility, Patience, and mostly Love.
The Lord is teaching us how to grow, to not be so easily offended, how to walk in Our brethrens shoes and as His children, to play nice. I think we make Our Lord proud with our learning abilities and our true feelings for one another. We lift each other up.Most playgrounds are full of bullies. We are Blessed to have our very own secret playground. What a wonderful gift from Our Father. Thank you Lord. John, it's nice to hear your mom is feeling better, George, I hope your brother gets well.
I believe the health care system everywhere is stressed to the max and some lose compassion or administers just tie their hands. I worked in a hospital for thirty years, and I avoid them as much as possible.Alex , I love reading your posts, they keep my old brain focused and challenged and isn't that what we are supposed to do, if we all agreed on everything,we would be like boring sheep 🐑 hehe.Guess what, I quit smoking. Five months now. I was a pack a day smoker for over thirty years and I prayed to God to please help me quit, I was so sick of its slavery. Two months later, not only did I quit but my husband also, cold turkey. Ahh the Lord is so good and I'm pretty sure he's always looking into the school window to see how His students are doing. He just says"Follow Me"
And we drop everything and run to Him.   In Christ Our Lord, 🙏🏼 Amen.          Pamela

BTW.  I believe New Jerusalem will be vegetarian, no more slaughter of animals. Just my Hope.

And I too in The New Jerusalem desire all His Creatures to live in Love, Joy and Peace with each other.

My brother has got better - thank you - and is still not yet 100% back to his normal self.

Congratulations to both your husband and you, for overcoming the desire to keep on 'smoking'.

Warmest Regards.

George


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