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Author Topic: Our Days are numbered  (Read 1457 times)

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Terry

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Our Days are numbered
« on: October 30, 2016, 11:52:11 AM »

I was telling a friend that the days of our life are numbered nothing we can do to add or take away from that, he sais he didn't agree and gave me this verse

Exo 20:12  Honor thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

He thinks if we don't Honor our parents we can shorting our life

I need help understanding this

Terry
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Terry

flaviomusico

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Re: Our Days are numbered
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2016, 02:09:32 PM »

It looks like a contradiction right?
My brother gave the same verse when talking  about the subject,
Here is what i told him:
A person will live to be 90 ,but will look back in his life and say
Man i wasted most of my life doing he wrong things over and over,
Another man will live to be 33 and in that lifespan did more to others than we can't even begin to imagine,
Now ask your self,  WHO GOT TO LIVE THE LONGEST?

Piece  be with you friend.
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John from Kentucky

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Re: Our Days are numbered
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2016, 02:35:52 PM »

Hi Terry,

Your friend is ignorant of the Scriptures.  Unless God is guiding him and opening his heart, he cannot understand scriptural truth.  It will be like talking to a wall.  I will do just about anything to avoid discussing scriptural topics with people.

First, your friend would need to understand the Two Witnesses.  You need at least two Scriptures to establish a truth.  The Many will have one Scripture, but they cannot produce two Scriptures that are accurate and on the point.  This biblical requirement is violated all the time, which is why Revelation tells us the Two Witnesses are killed and left for dead on the streets of Jerusalem (the false church).

Second, your friend quotes from the ten commandments, which no longer apply to God's Elect as a law code.  The ten commandments were the heart of the Old Covenant and kept in the Ark of the Covenant.  The Old Covenant is no longer in effect.

If your friend thinks the ten commandments still apply, does he obey the 4th commandment and not work on the 7th day?

Also, if you closely read the Scripture quoted, it says their life will be long in the land God is giving them.  Which refers to the promised land the Israelite were going to.

Several other points, but I have to go somewhere.  But your friend will not understand what I said above.  It will only produce more argument.  There are only a small, small few who have any understanding of these things at this time.

John
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lilitalienboi16

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Re: Our Days are numbered
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2016, 03:35:14 PM »

To add to JFK's post, here are the witnesses, the multitude of counselors in who's numbers there is safety;

Job 7:1 Is there not an appointed time to man upon earth? are not his days also like the days of an hireling?

Job 14:5 Seeing his days are determined, the number of his months are with thee, thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass;

Job 14:14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.

Ecclesiastes 3:1-2 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

Ecc 8:8 8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it.

Psalm 139:16 Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them.

Examples of people in scripture having appointed times to enter into rest,

King David

2 Sam 7:12"When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom.

Moses

Deuteronomy 31:16
The LORD said to Moses, "Behold, you are about to lie down with your fathers; and this people will arise and play the harlot with the strange gods of the land, into the midst of which they are going, and will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them.

Paul

2 Timothy 4:6 For I am already being offered, and the time of my departure is come.

Jesus

John 12:23 And Jesus answereth them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.
John 12:27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour. But for this cause came I unto this hour.

I'm sure there is more examples of appointed times and numvered days but that's what I've got.

God bless,
Alex
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1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

lostANDfound

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Re: Our Days are numbered
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2016, 03:57:57 PM »

I think JFK and Alex are right, and I add that IF you do honour your father and mother THEN it was God's will according to His plan and the length of your days in the land were already determined according to your eventual choice.  I imagine JFK was going to say something along those lines if he had time.

Even before there is a word on my tongue, behold, oh Lord, You know it all. Psalm 139:4

I hope alls well with your mom JFK!
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Learning, learning.  Ever so slowly.

Terry

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Re: Our Days are numbered
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2016, 06:12:50 PM »

 I will do just about anything to avoid discussing scriptural topics with people.
Good advice John thanks

Thanks Alex, you are always helpful

To add to JFK's post, here are the witnesses, the multitude of counselors in who's numbers there is safety;

Job 7:1 Is there not an appointed time to man upon earth? are not his days also like the days of an hireling?

Job 14:5 Seeing his days are determined, the number of his months are with thee, thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass;

Lostandfound just after i posted i thought of the very same thing,if some one honors their parents or anything else it was Gods will

I think JFK and Alex are right, and I add that IF you do honour your father and mother THEN it was God's will according to His plan and the length of your days in the land were already determined according to your eventual choice.  I imagine JFK was going to say something along those lines if he had time.

Even before there is a word on my tongue, behold, oh Lord, You know it all. Psalm 139:4

I hope alls well with your mom JFK!

Thanks all
Terry

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Terry

cheekie3

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Re: Our Days are numbered
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2016, 07:35:22 AM »

Alex -

To add to JFK's post, here are the witnesses, the multitude of counselors in who's numbers there is safety;

Job 7:1 Is there not an appointed time to man upon earth? are not his days also like the days of an hireling?

Job 14:5 Seeing his days are determined, the number of his months are with thee, thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass;

Job 14:14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.

Ecclesiastes 3:1-2 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

Ecc 8:8 8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it.

Psalm 139:16 Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them.

Examples of people in scripture having appointed times to enter into rest,

King David

2 Sam 7:12"When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom.

Moses

Deuteronomy 31:16
The LORD said to Moses, "Behold, you are about to lie down with your fathers; and this people will arise and play the harlot with the strange gods of the land, into the midst of which they are going, and will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them.

Paul

2 Timothy 4:6 For I am already being offered, and the time of my departure is come.

Jesus

John 12:23 And Jesus answereth them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.
John 12:27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour. But for this cause came I unto this hour.

I'm sure there is more examples of appointed times and numvered days but that's what I've got.

God bless,
Alex

Excellent Scriptural Witnesses and examples.

If I am not mistaken, I believe Ray would probably have said 'You have book ended this, Alex'.

Kind Regards.

George

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The Acts of The Apostles 1:8 (NIBEV) "But you shall receive power when His Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

cheekie3

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Re: Our Days are numbered
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2016, 09:05:48 AM »

Hi Terry,

Your friend is ignorant of the Scriptures.  Unless God is guiding him and opening his heart, he cannot understand scriptural truth.  It will be like talking to a wall.  I will do just about anything to avoid discussing scriptural topics with people.

First, your friend would need to understand the Two Witnesses.  You need at least two Scriptures to establish a truth.  The Many will have one Scripture, but they cannot produce two Scriptures that are accurate and on the point.  This biblical requirement is violated all the time, which is why Revelation tells us the Two Witnesses are killed and left for dead on the streets of Jerusalem (the false church).

Second, your friend quotes from the ten commandments, which no longer apply to God's Elect as a law code.  The ten commandments were the heart of the Old Covenant and kept in the Ark of the Covenant.  The Old Covenant is no longer in effect.

If your friend thinks the ten commandments still apply, does he obey the 4th commandment and not work on the 7th day?

Also, if you closely read the Scripture quoted, it says their life will be long in the land God is giving them.  Which refers to the promised land the Israelite were going to.

Several other points, but I have to go somewhere.  But your friend will not understand what I said above.  It will only produce more argument.  There are only a small, small few who have any understanding of these things at this time.

John

John -

Thank you for your very helpful Post:

1. Regarding two or three Witnesses - I believe Alex has kindly provided ample Scriptural Witness and examples.

2.1. I know we have on numerous occasions discussed 'The Law' and 'The Old Covenant' - and I agree that 'The Old Covenant' is dead - and I may be wrong, but I believe that 'The Law' has not be done away with (as it was always a Spiritual Law - and indeed Jesus enhanced 'The Law' by stating that even if a man lust after a woman he had already committed sin in his heart). My understanding is that 'The Works of The Law' (or ordinances - or outward physical Commandments) have been abolished, as He writes 'His Law' in the hearts and minds of 'His Elect' in this Age of Grace under 'The New Covenant':

Ephesians 2:15 (KJV):
having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

2.2. I know that there is a New Testament Scripture that states that 'The Law' was meant for the unrighteous, and not the righteous - and this still puzzles me - although it does make sense if these Scriptural Witnesses were referring to 'The Works of The Law', rather than 'The Law'. But I do not want to make any Scripture fit into any false doctrine:

1 Timothy 1:7-9 (KJV):
7: desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
8: But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9: knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

1 Timothy 1:8-11 (J.B. Phillips New Testament):
We know, of course, that the Law is good in itself and has a legitimate function. Yet we also know that the Law is not really meant for the good man, but for the man who has neither principles nor self-control, for the man who is really wicked, who has neither scruples nor reverence. Yes, the Law is directed against the sort of people who attack their own parents, who kill their fellows, who are sexually uncontrolled or perverted, or who traffic in the bodies of others. It is against liars and perjurers—in fact it is against any and every action which contradicts the wholesome teaching of the glorious Gospel which our blessed God has given and entrusted to me.

1 Timothy 1:9 (Common English Bible):
We understand this: the Law isn’t established for a righteous person but for people who live without laws and without obeying any authority. They are the ungodly and the sinners. They are people who are not spiritual, and nothing is sacred to them. They kill their fathers and mothers, and murder others.

2.3. We know that there was a change in the Priesthood from the tribe of 'Levi' to the tribe of 'Judah'; but I do not believe this means that 'The Law' itself was changed or done away with:

Hebrews 7:12 (KJV):
For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

3. I agree that this does indeed refer to 'The Israelites, and their land'.

Kind Regards.

George

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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Our Days are numbered
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2016, 09:54:20 PM »

George, I haven't studied "the law portions" of the scripture, as Ray put it, with much diligence.  But let me ask, taking just one example:  If there was no law against murdering one's mother, would a righteous man murder his mother? 

Like I said, I don't know for sure if there IS a law specifically against murdering one's mother in the Old Testament.  But whether there is or not, is it necessary for a righteous man to have a law that forbids it?  I'm going with NO--ABSOLUTELY NOT.  A righteous man will not murder anybody, much less his mother.  He doesn't even need the Ten Commandments to tell him not to murder. 

Take that thought to the first chapters of Romans.

If he needs a law and thinks he is justified by obeying it, he has fallen from grace.  If he needs a law to steel himself from acting on his desires to murder his mother, he's not thinking righteously.  And if he thinks he's righteous yet murders his mother, he's very wrong about doing righteousness.

That's about as succinctly as I can put it.



« Last Edit: October 31, 2016, 10:05:31 PM by Dave in Tenn »
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Our Days are numbered
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2016, 10:18:29 PM »

I'll tack this on.  I said this several years ago, and still believe it to be true:  For the righteous man, no law is necessary.  For the sinner, no law is sufficient.
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

cheekie3

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Re: Our Days are numbered
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2016, 05:02:36 AM »

Dave in Tenn -

Thank you for this very interesting perspective:
 
George, I haven't studied "the law portions" of the scripture, as Ray put it, with much diligence.  But let me ask, taking just one example:  If there was no law against murdering one's mother, would a righteous man murder his mother? 

Like I said, I don't know for sure if there IS a law specifically against murdering one's mother in the Old Testament.  But whether there is or not, is it necessary for a righteous man to have a law that forbids it?  I'm going with NO--ABSOLUTELY NOT.  A righteous man will not murder anybody, much less his mother.  He doesn't even need the Ten Commandments to tell him not to murder. 

Take that thought to the first chapters of Romans.

If he needs a law and thinks he is justified by obeying it, he has fallen from grace.  If he needs a law to steel himself from acting on his desires to murder his mother, he's not thinking righteously.  And if he thinks he's righteous yet murders his mother, he's very wrong about doing righteousness.

That's about as succinctly as I can put it.

I have often stated, that whoever you are, in whatever culture or belief system you live in - that the first time you were about to lie to your parents, you knew you were about to lie and that it was wrong - and even while you lied to them - you still knew it was wrong.

Now, suppose this happened in some remote culture who had not heard of Jesus Christ - this would still be true.

This is covered I believe in Romans, where The Scriptures state that whether you did right according to law or without law - it is still right.

How do we all know right and wrong? Who put that understanding in each of us? Is it our conscience? Is it something else?

The point about 'Law' and 'Transgression', is that without 'Law' there could not be any conviction of 'Transgression'.

I believe a fundamental point for His Elect is that He writes 'His Law' within their hearts and minds - and enables them to obey His Commandments. If His Law is part of each one of His Elect, there are in a Very Good Place. 

I personally believe that every man, woman and child know 'right and wrong' - which means that we must all have His Law within us somehow. I do not know if this is 'the knowledge of good and evil', and whether we know some or all of it when we are born, and whether we learn from our parents and others as we grow. From my own experience, I did not need anyone to tell me me what was 'right and wrong', I already knew it deep inside my being.

So perhaps, we are all born with the knowledge of 'His Law' within us - and that is most certainly my own experience.

I am a very odd man though, as I have always studied my own behaviour, especially when I was accused of doing wrong; as there is something deep within me, that makes me evaluate my own behaviour, and the attitude of others. I know how to find out the fruit of any man, woman and child - but I always look for the root cause, and invariably the root cause is revealed to me.


How does His Holy Spirit convict us of sin, if His Law is not within us?


Perhaps, others on This Forum, may have similar or other perspectives.


Kind Regards.

George

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cheekie3

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Re: Our Days are numbered
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2016, 05:37:45 AM »

Dave in Tenn -

I'll tack this on.  I said this several years ago, and still believe it to be true:  For the righteous man, no law is necessary.  For the sinner, no law is sufficient.

I humbly cannot agree with you on this - as my understanding is that He speaks all that was created and made into existence - and He sustains it all by His various Laws (including His Law(s) for mankind).

Some who have studied The Holy Scriptures have stated that they are not about religion but all about 'Law', and that all laws in each country are based on The Holy Scriptures.

The New Testament is full of Scriptures about 'Law'.

My heart's desire is to please Him - and I can only do this if I know Him; and He Has provided us with His nine fold fruit of His Spirit (or His characteristics) - and He has declared that His Law(s) is / are to be written in both our hearts and minds - so that in all that we are, we are in a position to obey Him - which is True Worship. He does not need us to adore Him, but to be like Him.

If a righteous man does not need His Law - why does He state that He will write His Law(s) in His Elects' hearts and minds?

I personally believe 'His Law' is the most significant aspect for our lives; as I do not believe Our Heavenly Father does anything without 'Law'. After all, is He not 'The One and Only True Lawgiver' for His Creation and living beings or creatures? Is not everything alive in Him (including the stars, which He knows by name) governed by His Laws?

I cannot fathom any time in the near or far future that we will live without 'His Law(s)', even when all of us are purified and cleansed righteous spiritual beings in spiritual bodies.
 
Kind Regards.

George
 
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The Acts of The Apostles 1:8 (NIBEV) "But you shall receive power when His Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

Dave in Tenn

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Re: Our Days are numbered
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2016, 06:06:57 PM »

That's fine, George.  I wasn't making such a deep statement about all "law".  I was talking about the more limited set of "thou shalts" and "thou shalt nots". 
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

John from Kentucky

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Re: Our Days are numbered
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2016, 10:45:14 PM »

This Law thing is really not all that complicated.

The Scriptures say Love does no harm, thus Love is the fulfillment of the Law.

The question then is, do we cause harm in our thoughts, words, or actions?
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Flanagan

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Re: Our Days are numbered
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2016, 11:05:42 PM »

Does anyone know what is meant in Ec 9:11 when it say's " But time and chance happen to them all" ?  Also does anyone know where Brother Ray spoke on this subject concerning " our days are numbered" ?
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cheekie3

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Re: Our Days are numbered
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2016, 06:28:08 AM »

Dave -

That's fine, George.  I wasn't making such a deep statement about all "law".  I was talking about the more limited set of "thou shalts" and "thou shalt nots".

I agree with you, in that, these were all part of the Old Testament outward physical ordinances (or works of The Law) - and not part of His New inward Begotten Children of His Holy Spirit (or His Spiritual Law).

Kind Regards.

George

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The Acts of The Apostles 1:8 (NIBEV) "But you shall receive power when His Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."
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