> General Discussions
Book of Enoch
cheekie3:
Dennis -
Thank you for Posting this audio:
--- Quote from: Dennis Vogel on November 23, 2016, 06:22:16 PM ---This is one of my favorites: https://youtu.be/hPCKPzKz0yU
--- End quote ---
This too, is one of my favourites, as Ray (despite his suffering and pain) talked about his knowledge and experience of life, and made us all laugh at ourselves.
We can all identify with what Ray said.
Warmest Regards.
George
John from Kentucky:
--- Quote from: cheekie3 on November 24, 2016, 09:10:12 AM ---John -
Thank you for confirming that The Scriptures do not contradict. It is very thoughtful of you; and I wholeheartedly agree with your Scriptural Statements below:
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on November 23, 2016, 09:25:56 PM ---
--- Quote from: cheekie3 on November 23, 2016, 04:42:36 AM ---Pamela -
The Old Testament is much harder to understand than the New Testament:
--- Quote from: Musterseed on November 22, 2016, 10:26:37 PM ---Thank you all for your kind reassurance . I think I was so excited about finally getting on the forum
That I was a little too eager to offer my input. I felt like I had a bunch of friends in my house and I finally could talk to some one, but I realize now that I need to be more quiet and study more and pay attention.You are all so versed in Scripture and although I understand the NT quite well, THe Lord had me read the bible back to front for some reason, and I don't ever question HIm, I am having trouble understanding the OT. For some reason my brain is not wrapping around it. I guess it will come when the Lord is ready, not me. In The meantime everything for me is. "These things must happen." it is Written ", "Thy will be done" and don't answer back to your Father. Lol
So I think I will be posting less and studying more, tonight I studied LOF X11. Thankyou and May
God Bless all of you and your loved ones. Pamela 🙏🏼
--- End quote ---
One of the hardest things I struggle with is that Our God is the same God in both the Old Testament and the New Testament - yet, in the Old Testament, Our God killed a multitude of people, and Commanded the Israelites to kill their enemies (because the other nations obeyed other gods) - whereas, in the New Testament, His Elect are Commanded to love their enemies, and not repay them evil for evil.
He hardened Pharaoh, and He changed Saul (into Paul).
Perhaps, one day, He will reveal and reconcile the Old and New Testaments to me.
I know that He will Save All (and cleanse All) - but I would like to know why killing was Commanded in the Old Testament, and Love is Commanded in the New Testament - especially, as The books of 'Proverbs' and 'Psalms' are full of aspects of 'His Love'.
Warmest Regards.
George
--- End quote ---
There are no true, genuine contradictions with our Great God, which includes His two witnesses, the Old Testament Scriptures and the New Testament Scriptures.
Every human was given life by God and every human's life has been or will be taken by Him. The Scriptures say that birds do not die without his say, much less humans who are his seed and family.
Everyone's path is directed by God. Some are vessels of honor, some vessels of dishonor. All as the Potter decides. Does the thing created tell the Creator, "Why do You do things this way ?"
--- End quote ---
I am not answering back to The Potter - I have, and will continue to Seek His Face, for His Truths (as He is Our Loving Heavenly Father).
Are we not to seek His knowledge, His Understanding and His Wisdom?
Are we not to have answers to questions we are asked, particularly from non believers?
Do not the majority of people not find it hard to fit together segments of The Old Testament with the Teachings of The New Testament?
Although The Same God, does it not appear, that The God of The Old Testament is a 'God of War', whereas The God of The New Testament is a 'God of Love'?
How would you answer a non believer if they were to ask you 'How come your God killed lots of people in The Old Testament, yet in The New Testament He Commands you not to kill, but to love your enemies'?
I have heard some say that it used to be 'an eye for an eye' but no longer, as He will avenge or judge for us.
I personally, do not know how to answer this particular question.
Warmest Regards.
George
--- End quote ---
I would rather have a double root canal than discuss Scriptures with an unbeliever. It is a waste of time. God is not saving the vast majority of mankind at this time, which is why He spoke to them in parables.
But if pushed into a corner, I would quote the words of that mean Old Covenant God straight out of the Old Testament. "...You shall love your neighbor as yourself..." Lev 19:18
cheekie3:
John -
Thank you for responding to the question I raised:
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on November 24, 2016, 09:08:41 PM ---
--- Quote from: cheekie3 on November 24, 2016, 09:10:12 AM ---John -
Thank you for confirming that The Scriptures do not contradict. It is very thoughtful of you; and I wholeheartedly agree with your Scriptural Statements below:
--- Quote from: John from Kentucky on November 23, 2016, 09:25:56 PM ---
--- Quote from: cheekie3 on November 23, 2016, 04:42:36 AM ---Pamela -
The Old Testament is much harder to understand than the New Testament:
--- Quote from: Musterseed on November 22, 2016, 10:26:37 PM ---Thank you all for your kind reassurance . I think I was so excited about finally getting on the forum
That I was a little too eager to offer my input. I felt like I had a bunch of friends in my house and I finally could talk to some one, but I realize now that I need to be more quiet and study more and pay attention.You are all so versed in Scripture and although I understand the NT quite well, THe Lord had me read the bible back to front for some reason, and I don't ever question HIm, I am having trouble understanding the OT. For some reason my brain is not wrapping around it. I guess it will come when the Lord is ready, not me. In The meantime everything for me is. "These things must happen." it is Written ", "Thy will be done" and don't answer back to your Father. Lol
So I think I will be posting less and studying more, tonight I studied LOF X11. Thankyou and May
God Bless all of you and your loved ones. Pamela 🙏🏼
--- End quote ---
One of the hardest things I struggle with is that Our God is the same God in both the Old Testament and the New Testament - yet, in the Old Testament, Our God killed a multitude of people, and Commanded the Israelites to kill their enemies (because the other nations obeyed other gods) - whereas, in the New Testament, His Elect are Commanded to love their enemies, and not repay them evil for evil.
He hardened Pharaoh, and He changed Saul (into Paul).
Perhaps, one day, He will reveal and reconcile the Old and New Testaments to me.
I know that He will Save All (and cleanse All) - but I would like to know why killing was Commanded in the Old Testament, and Love is Commanded in the New Testament - especially, as The books of 'Proverbs' and 'Psalms' are full of aspects of 'His Love'.
Warmest Regards.
George
--- End quote ---
There are no true, genuine contradictions with our Great God, which includes His two witnesses, the Old Testament Scriptures and the New Testament Scriptures.
Every human was given life by God and every human's life has been or will be taken by Him. The Scriptures say that birds do not die without his say, much less humans who are his seed and family.
Everyone's path is directed by God. Some are vessels of honor, some vessels of dishonor. All as the Potter decides. Does the thing created tell the Creator, "Why do You do things this way ?"
--- End quote ---
I am not answering back to The Potter - I have, and will continue to Seek His Face, for His Truths (as He is Our Loving Heavenly Father).
Are we not to seek His knowledge, His Understanding and His Wisdom?
Are we not to have answers to questions we are asked, particularly from non believers?
Do not the majority of people not find it hard to fit together segments of The Old Testament with the Teachings of The New Testament?
Although The Same God, does it not appear, that The God of The Old Testament is a 'God of War', whereas The God of The New Testament is a 'God of Love'?
How would you answer a non believer if they were to ask you 'How come your God killed lots of people in The Old Testament, yet in The New Testament He Commands you not to kill, but to love your enemies'?
I have heard some say that it used to be 'an eye for an eye' but no longer, as He will avenge or judge for us.
I personally, do not know how to answer this particular question.
Warmest Regards.
George
--- End quote ---
I would rather have a double root canal than discuss Scriptures with an unbeliever. It is a waste of time. God is not saving the vast majority of mankind at this time, which is why He spoke to them in parables.
But if pushed into a corner, I would quote the words of that mean Old Covenant God straight out of the Old Testament. "...You shall love your neighbor as yourself..." Lev 19:18
--- End quote ---
However, if you did quote Lev 19:18 - how does that address the fact that Our God killed people and Commanded the Israelites to kill their enemies in the Old Testament?
Unless I am missing something, I do not see how this would answer the question; as it would leave the unbeliever even more confused - as 'how can you love your neighbour' yet 'kill them at the same time' - and we are told in the New Testament that our neighbour is everyone, which includes our enemies.
Kind Regards.
George
Extol:
Dear George,
Do not be troubled by this hypothetical unbeliever. If an unbeliever is demanding an explanation for old Testament violence, he is almost certainly not interested in the truths of God. If he doesn't accept your explanation, so what? Having a satisfactory answer for old Testament violence isn't going to transform him into one of the elect of God, when he isn't even one of the called.
You ask--or the hypothetical unbeliever asked --how you can love your neighbor and kill him. Hasn't God done that throughout the ages? God is love, and he has killed many many people. The God who commanded the Hebrews to kill and said "love your enemies" is the same God who sends judgment and kills today. If you believe God is sovereign, even when something like WW2 happens, why is it so inconceivable that God would kill a relatively small nation of wicked humans a few thousand years ago? Sometimes he sends a flood, sometimes he has other humans do it.
This is not to say I take pleasure in this...and God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked either. But the wages of sin is death--that's God's word-- and sinners have to die. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Sometimes sinners die peacefully in their sleep....other times they suffer terrible deaths. We can't possibly know every man's story, nor is it our business to know why and how and when they die. However it's done, they all have to die...and they all have to come back to life. That's God's word too.
cheekie3:
Jesse -
Thank you for pointing out that Our God is Love and killing is part of life, as is sin and death - and also, that there will be given By Him, new life to all:
--- Quote from: Extol on November 25, 2016, 04:58:41 AM ---Dear George,
Do not be troubled by this hypothetical unbeliever. If an unbeliever is demanding an explanation for old Testament violence, he is almost certainly not interested in the truths of God. If he doesn't accept your explanation, so what? Having a satisfactory answer for old Testament violence isn't going to transform him into one of the elect of God, when he isn't even one of the called.
You ask--or the hypothetical unbeliever asked --how you can love your neighbor and kill him. Hasn't God done that throughout the ages? God is love, and he has killed many many people. The God who commanded the Hebrews to kill and said "love your enemies" is the same God who sends judgment and kills today. If you believe God is sovereign, even when something like WW2 happens, why is it so inconceivable that God would kill a relatively small nation of wicked humans a few thousand years ago? Sometimes he sends a flood, sometimes he has other humans do it.
This is not to say I take pleasure in this...and God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked either. But the wages of sin is death--that's God's word-- and sinners have to die. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Sometimes sinners die peacefully in their sleep....other times they suffer terrible deaths. We can't possibly know every man's story, nor is it our business to know why and how and when they die. However it's done, they all have to die...and they all have to come back to life. That's God's word too.
--- End quote ---
I do not want to make more of this than the simple question - which is simply this - God's People were Commanded to kill their enemies in the Old Testament, and God's People are Commanded to 'Love' and 'do Good' to their enemies in the New Testament.
I know He is Our God in both Testaments, and in all time.
I understand that the Old Covenant was changed into the New Covenant, because God proved that, by ourselves and without His Holy Spirit, not one of us can by our own works 'do Right'.
I have to date not found the answer to this particular question - and I know that some believe that the reference that Jesus made when He said 'you have heard of old that you must kill your enemies - but I say unto you that you must love your enemies, and do good to them' was referring to what people said, rather than His Commandments - but we have Scriptural references of God Himself killing people (including Israelites) and where He Commanded His People to kill their enemies.
I have asked this question directly to Our Heavenly Father, and to me, there must be a reason for the 'change' in His Commandment(s) regarding His Peoples' enemies; and why His People (Natural Israel) were then Commanded to kill their enemies, and now His People (Spiritual Israel) are Commanded to 'Love' their enemies and to 'do Good' to them (and not to do 'Evil' to them).
Warmest Regards.
George
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