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Book of Enoch
cheekie3:
All -
I found the answer I was looking for in an old thread on this Forum:
http://forums.bible-truths.com/index.php/topic,2965.0.html
Fot those that do not have the time to go through all four (4) pages of this particular Thread, please note that the answer I was looking for, is from Eric Steven in Post 65 (repeated below):
ericsteven
Guest
Re: kill or don't kill - does God change?
« Reply #65 on: January 09, 2007, 04:12:15 AM »
Hi all,
My name is Eric, and I am new to the forum. I have enjoyed very much reading everyone's insights into this as well as other topics on the sight. I’d thought I’d perhaps share my thoughts and/or insights on this topic.
Sorin acknowledges in his post that he understands “that God is God and He does as He pleases, He can create life and He can kill it and there's nothing we can do about it anymore than there's something we can do about being born or not.” And most if not all who have responded agree. God’s sovereignty is not in doubt. The question is why would God seemingly contradict himself by saying “Thou shalt not kill” and then commanding the Israelites to kill their neighbors?
The verses that Sorin quoted in his initial post are from Duet 20.
First of all, when going to war against their enemies, the Lord commanded them:
Deut 20:10ff:
When you march up to attack a city, makes its people an offer of peace. 11 If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you.
Sounds pretty reasonable to me. It is only if the people do not accept the offer of peace and then go ahead and engage the Israelites in battle, that the Lord (verse 13) “delivers it into your hand, [putting] to the sword all the men in it.”
In regards to the belief that when the scripture says in Deut 20:14, “but the women….take unto thyself,” that God is commanding the Israelite men to rape them, we only need to look back a few chapters to Deuteronomy 12:10 to see how God command the Israelites to treat their female captives.
Deut 12.10ff:
When you go to war against your enemies and the LORD your God delivers them into your hands and you take captives, 11 if you notice among the captives a beautiful woman and are attracted to her, you may take her as your wife. 12 Bring her into your home and have her shave her head, trim her nails 13 and put aside the clothes she was wearing when captured. After she has lived in your house and mourned her father and mother for a full month, then you may go to her and be her husband and she shall be your wife. 14 If you are not pleased with her, let her go wherever she wishes. You must not sell her or treat her as a slave, since you have dishonored her.
There is nothing is this command that convinces me that what God was referring to in Deut 20:14 was rape or adultery.
Now the above commands only apply to the nations that God is not giving the Israelites as an inheritance. In regards to the cities of the nations that God is giving to the Israelites as an inheritance, God commands the Israelites to completely destroy them in Deut 20:17. We only need to look to the following verse to understand why God gave this command.
Deut 20:18
Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the Lord your God.
and also Deut 18:14
The nations you will dispossess listen to those who practice sorcery or divination. But as for you, the Lord your God has not permitted you to do so.
So it’s clear, at least to me, that God has given them the Ten Commandments telling them what not to do. And in order to keep them from falling into sin, it is imperative to annihilate these people.
But of course, we know that they failed miserably with this command, which is why they were more often than not, it seems, looked at unfavoringly by the Lord.
I don’t know if this was helpful, but I would like acknowledge one more thing that Sorin said in one of his follow up posts. He said that he “is OK with being confused with the topic.” I, too, am perfectly Ok with being confused or being in the dark on certain things relating to how God works the way he does. I take comfort from one of Peter’s final moments with Jesus as recorded in the Book of John. After Jesus predicts the manner in which Peter would endure death to glorify God, Peter turns and sees John following them. Peter turns to Jesus and asks, “Lord, what about him?” To which Jesus responds, “If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? You must follow me.” In other words, (and I pray that I’m not “putting words” in Jesus’s mouth) Don’t worry about how I choose to glorify myself in others, which I would think includes our enemies. Just focus on the work that I have called you to do. That will be enough.
God's blessings to everyone,
Eric
I encourage you all to read all of the Posts on this Thread, as a lot of valuable 'Truth' nuggets are in there; and some are from Kat.
Warmest Regards.
George
lilitalienboi16:
I would also add that killing by God is not a sin. God alone has the power to make alive therefor it would seem to me that when He kills it is lawful and right.
Deuteronomy 32:38-40
39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
40 For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever.
Also Hannah herself by inspiration of God speaks these same words:
1 Sam 2:6 6 The Lord killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up.
Remember that the days of our lives are numbered and the boundaries of our habitations have been established by God. We cannot go beyond them. Is it so shocking then that we should live or die by His command?
God is the original cause of all things. He needs no excuses or justifications. His plan is perfect and I have no doubt He will succeed in all He does. He gives life to all and is in the process of transforming His race into His very image that we, like Him, may inherit all things. A small price to pay for the glory that is to come.
Romans 8:16-21
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
God bless,
Alex
cheekie3:
Alex -
Thank you for sharing this about Our Loving Heavenly Father, and that All that He Does is Perfect and Always Right:
--- Quote from: lilitalienboi16 on November 25, 2016, 12:31:20 PM ---I would also add that killing by God is not a sin. God alone has the power to make alive therefor it would seem to me that when He kills it is lawful and right.
Deuteronomy 32:38-40
39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
40 For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever.
Also Hannah herself by inspiration of God speaks these same words:
1 Sam 2:6 6 The Lord killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up.
Remember that the days of our lives are numbered and the boundaries of our habitations have been established by God. We cannot go beyond them. Is it so shocking then that we should live or die by His command?
God is the original cause of all things. He needs no excuses or justifications. His plan is perfect and I have no doubt He will succeed in all He does. He gives life to all and is in the process of transforming His race into His very image that we, like Him, may inherit all things. A small price to pay for the glory that is to come.
Romans 8:16-21
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
God bless,
Alex
--- End quote ---
Warmest Regards.
George
Joel:
The way I see it, God the creator set everything in motion by saying,"Let there be", and the evidence of that command is seen in Ecclesiastes 3:1-8. To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven.
Note verse 8; A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
The time of peace that is coming, will far out weigh all the other things that we view as negative.
Joel
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