Give a witness?

[Pini56]

Hi John,

You Said and I quote: If Jesus could not save anyone.........

This is not True. While he was on the Earth, he saved his Disciples. At pentecost 120 Followers of his were given his 'Spirit"

In other words they had the Seal of Salvation assurance.

When you say "Jesus could not save anyone.........": no matter how it is intended, you are confusing 'Babes' in Christ.

Just because you didn't see Jesus save the way you see it does not mean he didn't.

The Twelve 'Disciples' are His very 'Elect' and they 'Are" Saved (Past Tense Intended). Jesus did 'Save' while he was on this Earth.

And please 'Note': They did not say any 7 second prayer.

This is not meant to be nasty, but to try and explain things in a correct way. We are all trying to seek the truth.

I know Ray has spoken at length on this. I don't know where. Peace to you. Geoff.

P.S. Great Scripture by the way: Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit says the Lord Almighty.  Zechariah 4:6
This same 'Spirit' dwells within us: When we witness as we are told to do, who's at work: The 'Lord's Spirit' in us of course.
The 'Spirit' within us 'Causes' us to witness in many ways. You are in no way 'Carnal' in however way you do it, because it is the 'Will' of 'The Lord'. It is his 'Command'.
Some 'Methods' might be 'Carnal' in Nature, but they 'All' work together to bring about the very 'Plan Of God'. If you need 'Scriptural Proof', just ask me. See Ya. 

[John from Kentucky]

Hi John,

You Said and I quote: If Jesus could not save anyone.........

This is not True. While he was on the Earth, he saved his Disciples. At pentecost 120 Followers of his were given his 'Spirit"

In other words they had the Seal of Salvation assurance.

When you say "Jesus could not save anyone.........": no matter how it is intended, you are confusing 'Babes' in Christ.

Just because you didn't see Jesus save the way you see it does not mean he didn't.

The Twelve 'Disciples' are His very 'Elect' and they 'Are" Saved (Past Tense Intended). Jesus did 'Save' while he was on this Earth.

And please 'Note': They did not say any 7 second prayer.

This is not meant to be nasty, but to try and explain things in a correct way. We are all trying to seek the truth.

I know Ray has spoken at length on this. I don't know where. Peace to you. Geoff.

P.S. Great Scripture by the way: Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit says the Lord Almighty.  Zechariah 4:6
This same 'Spirit' dwells within us: When we witness as we are told to do, who's at work: The 'Lord's Spirit' in us of course.

Hi Geoff, 

You need to read carefully.  I said while Jesus was a human He did not save anyone, which is a true statement if you read and study the Scriptures with care.  Jesus had already been resurrected and ascended to heaven on the Day of Pentecost.  For what it is worth, Ray said the same thing. 

John

P.S.  Be careful of accusing someone of speaking falsely, especially in the off chance that person could be speaking by the Spirit of God.  You could bring judgment on yourself.

[Pini56]

Hi John,

I know that's how you intended it, but it can be construed the wrong way by those who have less knowledge.

Believe me, just trying to be helpful.

Also it's something I won't argue with.  See Ya John.

P.S. This is the Quote: "If Jesus could not save anyone.........":- You said this in your last Post: "I said while Jesus was a human He did not save anyone". You are Deceiving us. You might have meant this but you didn't say it that way in your previous post.

I have already been 'Judged' by the way. Have a good day.

P.S. It was confusing, not to me, but to others that might be reading. To say both those things in the same post can be misleading to some. I 'Quoted' you correctly. Whether Jesus saved on this Earth or not, it is minuscule argument and not worth the time. Bye.

[Dennis Vogel]

No one is saved until they are saved. All the dead are still dead except Jesus.

[John from Kentucky]

Hi John,

I know that's how you intended it, but it can be construed the wrong way by those who have less knowledge.

Believe me, just trying to be helpful.

Also it's something I won't argue with.  See Ya John.

P.S. This is the Quote: "If Jesus could not save anyone.........":- You said this in your last Post: "I said while Jesus was a human He did not save anyone". You are Deceiving us. You might have meant this but you didn't say it that way in your previous post.

I have already been 'Judged' by the way. Have a good day.

P.S. It was confusing, not to me, but to others that might be reading. To say both those things in the same post can be misleading to some. I 'Quoted' you correctly. Whether Jesus saved on this Earth or not, it is minuscule argument and not worth the time. Bye.

I am glad you decided not to argue.

Ray said the same thing I did, namely that Jesus did not save one person while He was a human on the earth.  For those with enough initiative, they can find Ray's statement.  Better yet they can study that point from the Scriptures themselves if they want.

And no, you have not been judged yet.  The Scriptures tell us that judgment is currently upon the House of God.  We are all still a work in process in God's hands, that is for those few who are being judged in this age.

[Pini56]

Hi John,

Unfortunately relating on this Forum is very hard to do. When people read the Words about some ones Experience in life they cannot hope to know the kind of suffering that that caused them. When someone else has the same Experience the suffering can be little bit different but can empathise with that person in some way. No body truly knows deep down how some one has suffered. Only the Lord himself knows.

In saying that, you don't know me and i don't know you, so how can we Judge one another in the first place. Sometimes words can be misleading and sometimes when we put on paper the words needed to convey a certain point, can be misconstrued because what was meant sometimes when read can be confusing to some. We all do it. The only way to truly get to know any body is face to face and taking time to relate on common ground. Did not Paul say that he was 'all things to all people' so that through the common grounds of relating, they may be saved on that 'Day'.

So I apologise if I sounded rude, it was not intended, the statement that Jesus did not 'Save' while he was on this earth as a human is something that I have a different 'Slant' on and is something that is very hard to explain. But I won't because this is not allowed on this Forum. There it ends.

On the Question of Judgement, again I have a very different 'Slant' on that as well and again on this Forum it is not allowed. There it ends.

On the Question of Witnessing, Jesus said 'YOU ARE MY WITNESSES", of what, His LIFE, DEATH and RESURRECTION. This is what gives us HOPE.
This was said to his Disciples back then but is also relevant to us today because this Statement that the Lord "Is, was, and will be", tells us that. When someone asks us about this 'HOPE' because of the example of 'GODLY LOVE' which you conveyed to them. Then you must give 'Answer Too'. This is 'Holy Spirit' Time. Be READY.

I will Leave it at that. I have nothing more to say on these Subjects. Kindest Regards to you. Love to you and yours, Geoff. Bye.

[Dave in Tenn]

Here's the statement: 

Jesus Christ never converted a person in His whole ministry. It's just amazing. If you said that in a church they'd be throwing rotten tomatoes at you. But in His whole ministry Jesus Christ never converted one person! Not one!

The 11 second sinner's prayer... they have not a clue what they are talking about!!

When came around Pentecost time though, a whole bunch of them were converted, about 120 of them. But Christ was leading them up to that. He's probably leading some of us up to that.

I wouldn't bother to quibble, but SALVATION is a word with a meaning, and CONVERSION is a word with a meaning.  They are not the same thing, even if preachers sometimes talk like they are.  So please don't say that Jesus never "saved" anybody in His earthly ministry unless you explain what He never saved anybody FROM.  He saved multitudes from sickness, demons, hunger, and forgave many sins. 

He did NOT however, spiritually convert anybody in His earthly ministry.  When it was ended, they were still "carnal".  Healthier?  Free from demons?  Some raised from the dead, even?  Full of experience?  Sure...but not yet converted. 

There is much we can do in ministry to others, but we cannot convert anybody spiritually.  Not even our own children.  Not even our own selves.

   

[lilitalienboi16]

There is much one can argue about, I suppose, but I'm thinking that it would be rather obtuse to believe that when we speak of being "saved," without qualifiers, that we are speaking of something else other than the process of salvation and its inevitable conclusion.

God bless,
Alex

[John from Kentucky]

Maybe we can all agree that Jesus, our beloved God and King, will judge, convert, and save everyone.

As the Scripture says, "for all will know Me from the least to the greatest."

[Flanagan]

Meanwhile John if I want to give a witness or two that's what I'll do. You can do what you're going to do. I must admit I'm a little set back by your hostility bordering on rudeness. I can get all that I need from unbelievers, but Jesus said you'd recognise his real followers from their intense love for one another. Maybe just tone it down a little John, you're not John Wayne. We really don't know each other well enough to jump to conclusions. Peace Brother

[Pini56]

Hi Flanagan,

RIGHT ON BROTHER. Peace to you. Love Geoff.

[Dennis Vogel]

This criticizing other members publicly is going to stop. If you have a problem with a member PM them.

This is the time of the year when I spend other people's money on Google advertising. I do not want new people coming to this forum and seeing this petty nonsense.

Trust me, I have a ban button and I will use it.

[mikeincanada]

Geoff, it seems both these topics of being saved on past tense or that judgement is NOW on the house of God were explained scripturally by Ray, I'm not sure what the debate is

Mike

[Flanagan]

My Apologies Dennis and Brothers and Sisters.