Even our thoughts couldn't have been otherwise?

[pg-91]

Proverbs 16:1 "The plans of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the Lord."
Proverbs 16:9 "The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps."
Proverbs 19:21: "Many are the plans in the mind of a man, but it is the purpose of the Lord that will stand."

I'm wondering whether it's the same for our thoughts as for the events of our lives. All of the toughts we'll ever experience couldn't   be other thoughts? I'm thinking a lot about this recently, because I'm suffering from OCD and intrusive thoughts, it would be good to see more clearly in this topic.

Best regards, Gyula

[Porter]

Yes I think you got that right Gyula. If God causes/creates the circumstances which causes our thoughts then it couldn't possibly be any other way regardless if we can detect the cause and circumstance.


I've heard Ray say that the heart is accessed through the mind, and the Spirit confirms it for me through my own personal studies.


Pro 23:7  For as he THINKS in his heart, so is he.

[cheekie3]

Gyula -

You raise a fundamental point:

Proverbs 16:1 "The plans of the heart belong to man, but the answer of the tongue is from the Lord."
Proverbs 16:9 "The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps."
Proverbs 19:21: "Many are the plans in the mind of a man, but it is the purpose of the Lord that will stand."

I'm wondering whether it's the same for our thoughts as for the events of our lives. All of the toughts we'll ever experience couldn't   be other thoughts? I'm thinking a lot about this recently, because I'm suffering from OCD and intrusive thoughts, it would be good to see more clearly in this topic.

Best regards, Gyula

One of my brothers once said to me 'God cannot hear my thoughts' - and I replied 'God not only hears what your thoughts are, but He knew what those thoughts were before they entered your mind - otherwise He is not God'.

Anyway, this is something that I too have been thinking about a lot - and I have actually challenged a lot of people about 'thoughts'.

I have asked:

1. Are the thoughts that enter your mind, you?
2. If the thoughts are you, then who is it that monitors and filters these thoughts?

To me it takes three to give life to a child, the father, the mother, and God who gives spirit (or the breath of life) to the new life.

When we die, our physical body dies, and the 'spirit' He gave us at conception, goes back to 'Him who gave it to us - with all that is 'us' within that particular spirit'.

We are born, we live, we learn, then He drags some of us (in this Age of Grace) out of the world to train them as His Elect.

I believe that both our hearts and our minds are within our own unique 'God Given spirit'; and both our hearts and our minds are 'spiritual', and process 'thoughts and desires'.

I further believe that 'our hearts and our minds' instruct our physical brains - and our physical brains, instruct and control what we say and do.

So getting back to these thoughts that enter us.

Do these thoughts enter our hearts, or our minds, or both.

I recollect that Ray taught that everything starts from our hearts, then go to our minds - and from there, we speak or action.

I personally believe that His Elect think and act differently to others, as He 'Graces His Elect with a 'new heart', and He instructs His Elect to 'have the mind of Christ', and He 'writes His Laws on both the hearts and the minds of His Elect'.

So I will focus on His Elect regarding these thoughts; and speak from my own experience.

As I 'ate and drunk of his flesh and his blood' or 'His Word', 'His Truths' started to become a part of me.

So the way I desired anything or thought changed significantly.

So let us imagine that a thought came into my heart (which is part of my own unique spirit Given to me by Him), which can think and analyse things - and let us say it is this particular thought:

"Your wife is cheating on you".

What would I do?

Firstly, I would challenge this thought.

I know my wife very well, and I know that she would never, ever, under any circumstances cheat on me, as she is like me, and she trusts m, and I trust her.

Then, I would ask Him, why this thought was given to me - and I would wait for His answer.

Some say that the 'spiritual battleground' is in our minds - but I believe it is in both our hearts and also in our minds.

I believe that is why He Graces His Elect with a new heart to desire 'His Righteousness', and no longer desire the things of this world, 'The Lust of the eyes, the Lust of the flesh, and the Pride of life'. He Blesses us with this new heart so our internal desires change from 'selfish' to 'selfless' - and we truly learn 'it is better to give, than to receive'.

So that leaves our minds.

We are to challenge all things to ascertain 'the truth of things', and we are to test all 'spirits' to see if there are of 'His Holy Spirit' or not.

I used to have very strange thoughts like 'I wanted to punch someone' who was speaking to me a load of rubbish', or because they were my work manager, and I knew they lied to me about something. I meditated on why I was having these thoughts, and I concluded that these were not me, and these were not my thoughts. This did not happen a lot, but it did happen, and over a period of time say over three years, I may have had these thoughts about ten times. Then they did not appear in my mind anymore.

I personally believe that when we are all born, and he Gives us 'spirit', we know 'right from wrong'. A case in point, is that when anyone of us, first lied to our parents, we all knew before we lied, that we were going to lie, and that lying is wrong. I believe this is our conscience, and some believe that 'some people have no conscience' - and that is why they do bad things without feeling guilty - well I cannot see that this can be 'True', and our enemy Satan is the one who makes us feel guilty when we do something wrong.

So, today, I have crystal clear thinking all day long, in both my heart and mind - and at very few times, this may change for a small period of time - like yesterday for no apparent reason I felt very, very sad. I did not know why, so I told my wife. I believe He shared the pain and sadness of one of my sons with me, so I would know the intent of their hurt, and pray for them 'In His Holy Spirit'.

I feel compelled to share this with you, but I do not know why (as it is not about thoughts); if I found myself in a position whereby a very beautiful young lady offered herself to me, I would firstly think that I would be betraying my wife and my three sons, and most importantly 'My Heavenly Father', and I would know that I would have to make the choice that my 'lust' is more important to me than 'My wife, my sons and My Heavenly Father', and I would know that I am guilty even before I do such a thing if I desired to do this. I know that I would never do such a thing, because of two reasons. Firstly, He has Graced me with a new Heart not to desire such things and given me the ability not to give in to such temptations. Secondly, I put my 'Our heavenly Father, my wife and three sons' above such foolishness.

So, if anyone has any issues with thoughts that 'should not be', I believe we should 'test these thoughts' to ascertain if they are 'Right and True'.

Off course He is totally responsible for everything that happens to us, including all thoughts that are presented to us.

I hope, I have given you some 'food for thought', and that I have not confused you, and perhaps, have helped you a little.

Warmest Regards.

George

[cheekie3]

Porter -

I recollect that Ray many times quoting it all starts from our hearts (Psalm 23:7):

Yes I think you got that right Gyula. If God causes/creates the circumstances which causes our thoughts then it couldn't possibly be any other way regardless if we can detect the cause and circumstance.


I've heard Ray say that the heart is accessed through the mind, and the Spirit confirms it for me through my own personal studies.


Pro 23:7  For as he THINKS in his heart, so is he.

That is why He Gives His Elect a New Heart to replace the old heart that lusts and is full of pride:

Ezekiel 18:30-32 (KJV):
30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord God. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord God: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

Ezekiel 36:26 (KJV):
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Matthew 15:19
For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

Mark 7:20-22 (KJV):
20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:

2 Corinthians 1:22 (KJV):
who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

2 Corinthians 3:3 (KJV):
forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

Galatians 4:6 (KJV):
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Philippians 4:7 (KJV):
And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

1 Timothy 1:5 (KJV):
Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

Hebrews 4:12 (KJV):
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

1 Peter 3:4 (KJV):
but let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

Warmest Regards.

George

[pg-91]

Thank you Porter and George for your answers, I will think about these things and give a longer answer when I'll be home.

Best regards, Gyula

[pg-91]

I have asked:

1. Are the thoughts that enter your mind, you?
2. If the thoughts are you, then who is it that monitors and filters these thoughts?

I have read about things like this a lot. What is maybe an interesting opinion or viewpont about this is something like this: The brain as a physical organ organizes data and presents it to the mind. The mind filters,rejects etc. the data it has received. And the one who observe this process in your mind is as you called it George, a "God given spirit". This makes much sense to me.

Yes, you gave food for thought, George. Thanks, again for your very detailed answer. I have some difficulty with this mind-heart question, a lot of times these are basically translated as synonyms, at least in Hungarian. I have to get a greater understanding on that topic as well.

It's good that we agree on the thing, that all of our thoughts are the same as every other thing in our lives, God is responsible and nothing couldn't have been otherwise.

Best regards, Gyula