> Off Topic Discussions
ARE HUMANS TO EAT MEAT?
John from Kentucky:
"For the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit."
Romans 14:17
StevenL:
Well, I just perused through 100 pages of archived emails to Ray to see if he touched on this. Apparently the topic of what God allows humans to eat was not big on his radar. If one of those emails was about this, I missed it. He may have touched on it within the body of one of his writings, but I'll be hanged if I can find it.
I just eat what I feel like eating at the time while trying to be mindful of nutritional needs. And ( I ) as a human am to eat meat. ;D No idea what Ray ate... I know he liked his wife's spaghetti.
Dave in Tenn:
LITV:
Rom 14:1 And receive the one who is weak in the faith, not to judgments of your thoughts.
Rom 14:2 One indeed believes to eat all things, but being weak, another one eats vegetables.
Rom 14:3 The one eating, do not despise the one not eating. And the one not eating, do not judge the one eating, for God received him.
WEAK:
G770
ἀσθενέω
astheneō
Total KJV Occurrences: 42
weak, 21
Act_20:35, Rom_4:19, Rom_8:3, Rom_14:1-2 (2), Rom_14:21, 1Co_8:9, 1Co_8:11-12 (2), 1Co_9:22 (3), 1Co_11:30, 2Co_10:10, 2Co_11:21, 2Co_11:29 (2), 2Co_12:10, 2Co_13:3-4 (2), 2Co_13:9
sick, 17
Mat_10:8, Mat_25:36, Mar_6:56, Luk_4:40, Luk_7:10, Luk_9:2, Joh_4:46, Joh_11:1-3 (3), Joh_11:6, Act_9:37, Act_19:12, Phi_2:26-27 (2), 2Ti_4:20, Jam_5:14
impotent, 2
Joh_5:3, Joh_5:7
diseased, 1
Joh_6:2
made (weak), 1
Rom_14:21
----------------------------------------------------------------
2Co 12:9 And He said to me, My grace is sufficient for you, for My power is perfected in weakness. Therefore, I will rather gladly boast in my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may overshadow me.
2Co 12:10 Because of this, I am pleased in weaknesses, in insults, in dire needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for the sake of Christ. For when I may be weak, then I am powerful.
WEAK:
G770
ἀσθενέω
astheneō
Total KJV Occurrences: 42
weak, 21
Act_20:35, Rom_4:19, Rom_8:3, Rom_14:1-2 (2), Rom_14:21, 1Co_8:9, 1Co_8:11-12 (2), 1Co_9:22 (3), 1Co_11:30, 2Co_10:10, 2Co_11:21, 2Co_11:29 (2), 2Co_12:10, 2Co_13:3-4 (2), 2Co_13:9
sick, 17
Mat_10:8, Mat_25:36, Mar_6:56, Luk_4:40, Luk_7:10, Luk_9:2, Joh_4:46, Joh_11:1-3 (3), Joh_11:6, Act_9:37, Act_19:12, Phi_2:26-27 (2), 2Ti_4:20, Jam_5:14
impotent, 2
Joh_5:3, Joh_5:7
diseased, 1
Joh_6:2
made (weak), 1
Rom_14:21
WEAKNESSES:
G769
ἀσθένεια
astheneia
Total KJV Occurrences: 24
infirmities, 10
Mat_8:17, Luk_5:15, Luk_8:2, Rom_8:26, 2Co_11:30, 2Co_12:5, 2Co_12:9-10 (2), 1Ti_5:23, Heb_4:15
infirmity, 7
Luk_13:11-12 (2), Joh_5:5, Rom_6:19, Gal_4:13, Heb_5:2, Heb_7:28
weakness, 5
1Co_2:3, 1Co_15:43, 2Co_12:9, 2Co_13:4, Heb_11:34
diseases, 1
Act_28:9
sickness, 1
Joh_11:4
--------------------------------------------
G769 ἀσθένεια astheneia is a NOUN.
I note that G770 ἀσθενέω astheneō is actually a VERB, though it seems every KJV translation (and every other one I checked) almost always translate it with an adjective. I wonder how it might be translated with a VERB? Romans 14:21 gives a possible way in the KJV-- ...is made weak., and in the Concordant--...is being...weakened.
I won't swear that's the only way it could be done. Could be the VERB is simply TO BE WEAK.
Anyway. Just wanted to delve a little deeper so Scripture says what it says. For me, it's one thing to glory in "weaknesses" as Paul did, and quite another thing to glory in being "weak in the faith". Yet since it is the Lord who gives both the "measure" of faith according to His own will and the "increase" of faith, it is no less improper and prideful to glory in being strong in the faith. We are simply what we are according to His will, purpose, and counsel.
Dave in Tenn:
--- Quote from: indianabob on January 17, 2017, 03:22:14 AM ---
Wasn't another spiritual reason for the vision to teach Peter that gentiles were being called of God and receiving God's spirit as well as Jews?
Moderators please help.
Indiana Bob
Act 11:11 And, behold, immediately there were three men already come unto the house where I was, sent from Caesarea unto me.
Act 11:12 And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house:
Act 11:13 And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
Act 11:14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.
Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Act 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
Act 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
--- End quote ---
Bob, it's true that the the vision was to teach Peter that gentiles were being called of God and receiving God's spirit as well as Jews. But the result of that "encounter" was the letter drafted by the Apostles and Elders to the Gentiles. Look it up. It's mentioned several times in Acts and "alluded" to many times in Paul's writings. Because of what HAPPENED, I don't think it's wise at all to stop dead and put a period after what you shared.
Colin:
Hi everybody
In his letter to the Romans, Paul addresses the topic of being critical of another person in the matter of what he/she chooses to eat and draws attention to its importance by linking it to Isaiah 45:23. Paul also repeats that in Philip. 2:10.
We can become very self-centred and self-assured by using disparaging remarks or displaying a belittling attitude in our remarks on the forum. That will be included when we all bow the knee.
Before we launch into discussing what Paul said in Romans 14:17, or using that verse unkindly as a “dagger”, it is wiser to read the first verse of that chapter, followed by verses 3 and 4. That will then provide us with the correct frame of mind/spirit from which to further any discussion.
People who are vegetarians do so for their own personal reasons, whether it be from viewing the killing of animals as undesirable, for dietary preference, or whatever else. A vegetarian or vegan diet does not kill people, however many have suffered food poisoning from certain meaty foods which have been contaminated, or have spoiled rapidly in humid conditions.
I avoid eating those “foods” which are listed as unclean in Leviticus 11 as they are not only a “word to the wise” from our Creator, but any health inspector will aver that they are the most likely to cause diarrhoea or nausea. Indeed, as Jesus said, they do not defile a person spiritually, but they do “come out in the draught”….sometimes quite speedily!
For similar reasons, I follow the guidelines about sanitary practices given in Leviticus 13, as do all hospital staff when it comes to hygiene and quarantining contagious diseases. It’s common sense.
We can ignore the risks and suffer at our own hands and tastebuds….the choice is ours. But we cannot say we weren’t warned.
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