Movie

[Bob]

Last night my wife and I were asked to go with visiting relatives to a movie theater. They are Baptist and we had spent the previous evening discussing the subject of hell. Naturally as most of us on this forum who have studied the "lake of fire series" by our beloved Ray, our former views on this subject have done a one eighty. Reluctantly I went along to see the movie " The Shack". I would be interested to know if any one on our forum has seen it and if you have any comment on it. If you haven't go see it. Those of us who have studied Ray's writings and are able to get past the obvious, like the depiction of the trinity etc, may be surprised.
After our discussion  the night before between our views and theirs on hell, I don't think they were prepared for what they saw. Especially after sharing our belief and Ray's teaching that Jesus really is the Savior of the World, the WHOLE WORLD.   Bob 

[lareli]

I read the book when it first came out. I don't remember exactly what the theology of the book was but I remember having peace about who God was and why evil things happen after reading it. I don't remember why exactly. I had recently had my daughter at the time that book came out so it was especially hard for me to read the opening chapters (I cried a LOT). But like I said, by the end of the book I felt like I had learned something true about God and/or forgiveness that gave me peace.

I saw a preview for the movie a few weeks ago and I was thinking that I would check it out once it came to theaters just to see how my new understanding of God would change how I understand that book/movie. I did not realize it was already out.

[lareli]

Just did a search on the forum and found two threads in regards to the book. The forum members did not like it, to say the least. I can understand why. But I'm curious to see the movie and see if there is good/truth mixed in with the evil/falsehood..

[Dennis Vogel]

Trailer: https://youtu.be/CL0yUbSS5Eg

[RogerH]

I saw the movie Bob and I loved it.  I also read the book many years ago and the posts in this forum concerning the book. 

All I have to say is the book "The Shack" is what God used to start me on my journey OUT of a religion I was totally entrenched in for 30+ years.  I don't have anything bad to say about it and would like to take many, many folks I know to see it.   Of course we all know it would do no good if God isn't ready to use it in their lives like He was in mine.

[Bob]

Roger H.  I share your opinion on this movie
I had never heard of the book "The Shack" which is no surprise as reading was never part of my leisure activity. The "lake of fire" series changed all that.  The thought of seeing this movie after being told how God was depicted and the trinity being three persons certainly was not appealing. Some time into the movie, being able to set aside my objection to it, the spiritual aspect of what I learned on this site came alive in my mind. Watching it then became a confirmation of all I believe. I can't say for certain my relatives had a change of heart on their belief regarding hell. But he asked me to make copies of  a study I had prepared a few years ago from Ray's teaching on the subject for him. Bob

[indianabob]

The book The Shack, seems in many ways to try to substitute itself for the Bible as true and useful theology.
I don't believe that we should search around for an easier to understand than scripture substitute for scripture.
Rather we should patiently struggle to be guided by God's spirit as God determines that we are ready for deeper truths.
Everyone having been given a taste of God's truth desires more of the same, and desires to share the small taste they have been given, but God determines when we are ready. I think that God who knows our mind so much better than we do is better able to determine how much understanding we can handle in our personal and family and social lives.

I would be very cautious about sharing the theology of the Shack with our loved ones who may only be further confused by its humanly designed illustrations of the One God.

Respectfully offered, Indiana Bob

[octoberose]

I see the wisdom in what you are saying Indiana, but the fact is that God used this forum to teach me what I couldn't see in the Bible for thirty plus years. His Word is not ink on a page, it is the Truth of Who He is and how we relate to Him. Without reading Ray's words I would have been wandering around with my infernal questions that were never ever getting answered. Someone had to say, in a manner of speaking, "here's the door, open it and smell the Reconciliation! Open it and Look at My Will and not your little bitty baby will. Open it and embrace that the dead are dead but I will resurrect them at the proper time!" I needed someone else to show me the way and the Way was easy to embrace to believe.

[octoberose]

Oh, and I read the book years ago and look forward to the movie. I may have even sent the author of the book a link to this website when the book came out. I think I did as a matter of fact- God  knows if he ever gave us a look.

[StevenL]

Well, I've been trying to determine how this movie became an item of comparison with Ray's teachings. But since it has been, here's all I can come up based on my extremely limited lack of knowledge (or interest in) the movie:

Ray refuted the doctrine of the trinity. The movie seems to be based largely on the idea of the trinity.

The head member of the movie trinity, representing God, the Father, is represented by a woman. While I'm sure the term 'Father' for the one true God is probably a metaphor in itself (the Words are spirit), the Scriptures pretty clearly, to me, represent Him as a Father. Not possible to make this connection with a female, especially since the female is commanded by the apostle not to be exercising authority over the male and even to remain quiet in the assemblies. The world has been and especially these days, is, engaged in open hostility to this concept. But, however much one may like it or hate it, it is a Scriptural principle. Mother God? I'm not going there. If someone else wants to, none of my business except to point to the danger.

The publishers, two 'pastors', sued the writer over an $8 million disputed amount owed for something or another. Didn't Paul tell believers not to be pursing law suits in the worldly courts among one another but rather to let yourself be wronged instead? So these people are dragging the Name of God and the teachings of the apostle through the mud over ....  Money. Weren't 'the many' peddlers of the word? Weren't these to be avoided by the called-out?

Since it is with great difficulty that humans can discern Truth through the layer of symbolic teaching in the actual Scriptures, how much harder will it be to grasp it through an added layer of carnally-produced 'symbolic teaching', even IF somewhat relevant, on top of the Scriptural teaching? Can people acquire truth through a vehicle that mixes HUGE untruths (Lies) with Scriptural Truth? In my opinion, no. I'm with Bob with regard to the warning.

So the only other relation I can see to Ray's teachings is the fact of God's ultimate reconciliation of all. Well, that's not really Ray's teaching though is it? It's just Scripture. But many have believed the Scripture through Ray's presentation of the Truth. But like I said, presenting the same Truth using unscriptural lies and by watering down the Truth into carnal reasonings, however heart-warming, does no service to the Good News of God nor to Ray Smith's teachings on this website.

This looks to me like the enemy in the temple of God is just getting bolder to the point of actually approaching some of the greatest truths of the Good News, but with a great web spun around it to ensure the deception. Pretty crafty! You have to admire the genius of it. But of course, God is behind the genius, even of the enemy.

These are only my opinions and I hope to have not offended anyone. Of course, the moderators are welcome to remove this post at their pleasure.

Ecc 12:11  The words of the wise are like goad points, And like imbedded bolts for the possessors of gathered sayings They are given by one shepherd."
Ecc 12:12  Yet furthermore, my son, from adding to these, be warned; Of the making of many scrolls there is no end, And much study is weariness to the flesh."

1Ti_4:7  But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.

2Co 2:17  For we are not as the majority, who are peddling the word of God, but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God in Christ, are we speaking."

1Co 6:7  Already, indeed, then, it is absolutely a discomfiture for you that you are having lawsuits among yourselves. Wherefore are you not rather being injured? Wherefore are you not rather being cheated?
1Co 6:8  But you are injuring and cheating, and this to brethren!"

1Co 11:3  Now I want you to be aware that the Head of every man is Christ, yet the head of the woman is the man, yet the Head of Christ is God."

Gal_1:3  Grace to you and peace from God, our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ

[lareli]

Good and evil, truth and deception... they both serve a purpose.

Heb 5:14
But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

Be it a movie, church service, or some other means of data being presented to us.. some will be able to discern the good from the evil and perhaps be blessed. Some will not be able to discern the good from the evil and may end up worse off and further deceived.

[StevenL]

Good and evil, truth and deception... they both serve a purpose.

Absolutely! And since we, hopefully, are vessels for honor and not dishonor, our purpose is for the good.

Out There in the kosmos, we don't have anything to do with what is presented to people for consumption. In Here, within the temple of God, those who love the Truth and contend for the faith, strive to present the things of God to others in such a way that they don't have to strain out evil and deception to consume it.

I think we are told to:  Tit 1:9  upholding the faithful word according to the teaching, that he may be able to entreat with sound teaching as well as to expose those who contradict." For many are insubordinate, vain praters and imposters, especially those of the Circumcision, who must be gagged, who are subverting whole households, teaching what they must not, on behalf of sordid gain."

[Dave in Tenn]

For what it's worth, I plan to go see it tomorrow evening.  It's "in the culture" and is based on a best-seller.  (I never read the book, and have no remorse over that).  I'd like to at least see what is presented if for NO OTHER REASON, to be able to discuss it.  I trust I'll be able to discern any "allegory" for what it is, and compare it with Truth.  The same thing happened with a documentary on spider monkeys a few months ago.     If Paul had no knowledge of the things he warned against, he never would have warned against them.

Actually, I agree very much with the major thrust of StevenL's post and with Largeli's after it.  But if I were to name all the things that God used to prepare me to believe, you'd think I was crazy and most would tell me never to do those things.  I myself would tell people never to do the things I did, yet I did and here I am  Jesus is Lord.   

I have no intention of endorsing it or telling anybody else to see or not see it.  MY role in all this is to BE THERE for people coming into sight.  I've had my Saul of Tarsus experience.  Now I feel more "called" to help explain what is already happening to a few as I "meet" them.  I think I might  be better prepared having seen this movie.  And if I'm wrong, I'm wrong.  He doesn't change. 

     

[John from Kentucky]

I agree with you I-Bob.

Religious people, churches, movies, books, Bible studies-----they all bore me.  Rather have a root canal.

[dave]

I read the book when it first came out and did not really like it. I had forgot about it until this big noise about it. I will probably see the movie and maybe re read the book.

[Musterseed]

I read this book when I was ignorant of the truth. The trinitarians and free willers will love it.
The book never would have been written or the movie made if it did not serve a purpose in
Our Lords Master Plan. Like StevenL said, it's genius. All is of God. He has a reason for everything.
This movie is already stirring up controversy and getting people's attention, even the atheists
are weighing in. Somewhat like the foolishness of preaching IMHO. The followers of Jesus could pick that movie apart in a split second, but not them. Oprah endorsed this book and put it in her
book club. Did she understand it, I doubt it. She got her cut, and so will all of the peddlers of Gods word. God is using them too. But for us.

"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel
contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed." ...Gal. 1:8

[Bob]

Thanks everyone for your comments. Our conversation with my relatives before seeing the movie was only about the prospects of hell and not all being saved. From a purely spiritual position according to what Ray taught us about both subjects, and putting aside the obvious spurious portrayals, I couldn't help smiling as we left the theater.  Thanks, Bob

[RogerH]

Why do we always, in our arrogance, try to limit God to working within the boundaries that we set up within our own minds?  Can He not, in His infinite wisdom, use whatever or whomever He wants to teach and reach those whom He chooses?  God chose to use just two points from this book to completely CHANGE my life.  Those two points were the concepts of "hell" and "universal reconciliation".

So many people get completely caught up in finding the "errors" of the faith (their faith, not God's) that they miss any good that might be included in the message.  For instance....... I hear many people who absolutely condemn the portrayal of God the "Father" as a woman in the book and movie, but here's what I got from it........

The woman first showed up as the kind neighbor lady who knew what was going on in the boy's life.  She understood the turmoil and trauma he was involved in at home, and reached out to him with unconditional love.  She chose to do this even though it was in no way required of her and basically had nothing to do with her.

I don't know about any of you, but that comes across to me as God portraying Himself to a troubled soul as someone who loves him unconditionally and cares about him greatly, just like the woman did in his youth.  When he questioned the appearance of God as a woman, she remarked that she (God) didn't think he (the man) was capable of seeing God as a "fatherly" figure (because of the stormy relationship he had with his earthly father).

I know God has always reached out to me in ways that I could relate to, and I see this portrayal of God as doing the same thing in this man's life.  To me, that shows His ultimate love.  In fact the MAIN point I got from reading the book, and watching the movie was not the rebuttal of the "hell message" or the message of "universal reconciliation" or the many "violations of the word of God", but I came away with a much better understanding of God's overwhelming message of unconditional LOVE, not only for me, but for ALL of His creation.

I thank God that He used this book and movie in that way in my life.  I would like to take hundreds of people to see this movie if only He would reveal the same to them!!!!!!!  Sorry, I can't find fault with any of that.

[Bob]

AMEN

[John from Kentucky]

All of the talk about this Satan inspired book and movie, brings to mind a Scripture from Amos 8:11.

"Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord GOD,
That I will send a famine on the land,
Not a famine of bread,
Nor a thirst for water,
But of hearing the words of the LORD."