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Author Topic: Eating from the beginning until after the flood  (Read 5719 times)

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Brenda

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Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« on: May 11, 2017, 03:36:18 AM »

I found this written by KAT on 17 September 2016 - But what most cannot see is that there are two separate seeds that are in the world from this account, one of the seeds is from Adam and Eve, God's chosen and the line that would continue all the way to Christ's birth. While there is another real physical/literal seed spoken of... if you cannot see that the "serpent" was not a snake, but a living human and could only be those people living at the time Adam was formed and brought to life, then you cannot understand this.

My question here is, is Satan a man, and if so, where in Scripture do we find this description of Satan?
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stello

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2017, 01:09:00 PM »

Good morning Brenda,

As far as i know, there is no account of a man being possessed by another man. Scripture shows however, that men have been possessed by demons.

Luke 22:3 "Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve."
 
Luke 8:29, 30 "29 For Jesus had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. Many times it had seized him, and though he was bound with chains and shackles, he had broken the chains and been driven by the demon into solitary places"

I don't think i read that post from Kat that you referenced, but nonetheless i'm unsure if the serpent was a man in the strictest sense. I am more inclined to believe it was a man possessed by a demon (Satan in particular).

Luke 10:17,18 "17 The seventy-two returned with joy and said, Lord, even the demons submit to us in Your name. 18 So He said to them, I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven."

Would be hard to imagine Satan being a man. For one thing he would have died a long time ago. Another, as a man he would have no power to tempt Jesus. Third, it would be difficult for a man to go through the earth seeking people to "devour".

Just my 2 cents.

Stello
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Extol

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2017, 01:16:06 PM »

Brenda,

I don't believe Kat meant that Satan was/is literally a man; she meant the serpent/Satan entered a human, as in the Scripture Stello referenced ("Satan entered Judas..."). Also, Matthew 16:23: "Jesus turned and said to Peter, 'Get behind me, Satan!...'" Peter was not literally Satan.
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Brenda

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2017, 10:46:28 AM »

Thank you so much for your guidance.  I thought that much, that Kat was most probably just using this example but referring to a person rather than Satan.  Sometimes, Satan can be very sly, trying to confuse our little brains.
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indianabob

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2017, 04:03:57 PM »

Hi Brenda,

Also from the Strong's concordance 5172 & 5175 the word translated serpent or snake
can mean "hiss" or "whisper" or "enchanter/enchanted".
So could it be that Eve heard a whisper in her mind and was enchanted by that means to take it upon herself to disobey.
Since Satan is invisible and spiritual why did she have to "see" a serpent a physical manifestation.
Perhaps a thought just formed in her mind, put there by Satan that made her curious.
Then she thought further and heard what she took to be an answer.
Especially considering that the Bible says she was deceived whereas Adam was not deceived.

Thanks for the question, Indiana Bob
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lareli

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2017, 12:16:06 PM »

Hi Brenda,

Also from the Strong's concordance 5172 & 5175 the word translated serpent or snake
can mean "hiss" or "whisper" or "enchanter/enchanted".
So could it be that Eve heard a whisper in her mind and was enchanted by that means to take it upon herself to disobey.
Since Satan is invisible and spiritual why did she have to "see" a serpent a physical manifestation.
Perhaps a thought just formed in her mind, put there by Satan that made her curious.
Then she thought further and heard what she took to be an answer.
Especially considering that the Bible says she was deceived whereas Adam was not deceived.

Thanks for the question, Indiana Bob

That's interesting Bob. That is, that "serpent" can be translated as "hiss" or "whisper".

But then again, Kat was quoted as saying that there were two seeds in the garden. Two real physical literal seeds. Could that be true if the serpent was only a thought/whisper in Eves mind? 

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cheekie3

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2017, 03:31:36 PM »

Brenda -

Regarding who Satan is:

I found this written by KAT on 17 September 2016 - But what most cannot see is that there are two separate seeds that are in the world from this account, one of the seeds is from Adam and Eve, God's chosen and the line that would continue all the way to Christ's birth. While there is another real physical/literal seed spoken of... if you cannot see that the "serpent" was not a snake, but a living human and could only be those people living at the time Adam was formed and brought to life, then you cannot understand this.

My question here is, is Satan a man, and if so, where in Scripture do we find this description of Satan?

Here is the teaching from Ray that may help you find what you are looking for:

https://bible-truths.com/lake9.html

Warmest Regards.

George
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The Acts of The Apostles 1:8 (NIBEV) "But you shall receive power when His Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

lareli

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2017, 06:14:24 PM »

As far as I've seen so far, Ray did NOT teach the 'serpent's seed' doctrine nor the 'pre-Adamic race' doctrine. I've examined both of these along the way, tossed both aside, and would have picked up on it had Ray gotten into it.

I won't argue for or against either here.

Won't be much help to you if I can't remember the exact YouTube video (so I apologize in advance) but I do recall a YouTube video where Ray was talking about Cain and Abel and how after God exiled Cain for murdering Abel, Cain complained that anyone who found him would kill him.. I can't remember Rays exact words but In the teaching he used Cains words to show that there may have been "others" on the earth at that time... but even if there were "others" at the time of Caines exile; I suppose that doesn't mean that those "others" were there pre-Adam. Dunno.
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Dennis Vogel

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indianabob

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2017, 02:14:31 PM »

Hi Folks,
If the Adam that God used as the progenitor of descendants leading to Christ was not the first, how do we reconcile the blood line of Jesus the second Adam?

Were those others created as a group similar to a group of Elk or Bears or as pairs of adults but in various locations throughout the earth?
Was the male created first and the woman taken out of it for spiritual reasons or did that not matter for the others who came before?

Regarding the animal population: since they reproduce very rapidly with minimal gestation periods and rapid sexual maturity in temperate climates such as earth was near the equator why could not Adam have begun counting and naming them sometime after the first birthing season just as he is assumed to have done with his own children later in his life. After all wasn't Adam alive for some time before Eve was produced and prior to the birth of his perhaps hundreds of children, grandchildren?
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2017, 03:25:17 PM »

You have problems with what Ray mentions in the above video.

Who was going to kill Cain if the only other two persons on earth were his parents? Unless you believe his parents would kill him which seems very unlikely considering their relationship with God. And if they did intend murder Cain do you think it would not be worthy to be recorded in the scriptures?

Where did Cain's wife come from?

Seth, Adam and Eve's third child is recorded.

Did Eve have other children who were not deemed important enough to be recorded?

Gen 4:16  And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

Where did Nod come from? Adam and Eve's unrecorded children?

Gen 3:20  And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

But Eve was not the mother of Adam was she? And Adam was one of the living.

Perhaps something special and spiritual started with Adam and Eve that continues to this day.

If Adam and Eve lived about 6000 years ago and they were the first humans, why is there proof that people inhabited this planet 50,000 to 100,000 years ago?
« Last Edit: May 16, 2017, 03:46:06 PM by Dennis Vogel »
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indianabob

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2017, 08:58:43 PM »

Thanks Dennis,
I don't have an answer except to say that the Bible doesn't seem to limit Adam's progeny to a certain time frame prior to the murder of Abel by Cain.
Could it have been after each of them had extensive families and these two old guys had been competing for decades? Didn't it take quite a bit of time for each of them to learn their animal husbandry or crop skills and to build a family? I cannot find any reference to Cain's length of life, but many of that day lived for centuries and scripture doesn't say for example after two years this happened it only says what happened next that was important enough to record. Gen 5:1 says that Seth didn't come along until Adam was 130 years old, plenty of time for a large population to have accumulated wasn't it? I think we may assume that Eve remained fertile up until that event when a son that resembled Adam was produced. Gen 5:3 says in Adam's likeness.
I do realize that some events are not explained to our human satisfaction and we will have to wait a little longer to learn the whole story.  :D

Thanks for your reply,
Regards, indiana bob
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2017, 06:23:21 AM »

Gen 5:1 says that Seth didn't come along until Adam was 130 years old, plenty of time for a large population to have accumulated wasn't it?

Here is the first mention of Seth:

Gen 4:25  And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

You would think if "God had appointed" Eve dozens of other "seeds instead of Abel" who established new cities, etc., they would have been mentioned and their descendants recorded just like Seth's descendants. Especially if any of them were male.

After this Seth is barely mentioned other than having children and how long he lived.

Gen 5:3  And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

Were all these other phamtom "seeds instead of Abel" that preceded Seth not "in his own likeness, after his image"?

And the above verse does not say Seth came along when Adam was 130 years old. It simply says "Adam lived an hundred and thirty years."

Gen 5:1  This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

There is no mention of these phantom children of Eve in "the book of the generations of Adam."

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cheekie3

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2017, 07:24:11 AM »

All -

Genesis 1 (KJV):

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Genesis 2 (KJV):

1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. 2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. 3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens, 5 and every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. 6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. 7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

As Genesis 1 is the full Creation, and then God Rested from all his work on the seventh day - and Adam and Eve were then made after the full Creation (and after He Created Mankind) - does this mean that God continued His Work of Creation after the six days?

Kind Regards.

George
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The Acts of The Apostles 1:8 (NIBEV) "But you shall receive power when His Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

Dennis Vogel

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2017, 10:41:01 AM »

God put things into motion.

Grass still grows and multiplies but that does not mean God is creating grass everyday.
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lareli

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2017, 03:08:24 PM »

God put things into motion.

Grass still grows and multiplies but that does not mean God is creating grass everyday.

Would this apply to all living things or just some? I know Ray wrote that God does create people. Not just putting the human race into motion by creating the originals. Are humans the only living things that God creates?

From the Lucifer Hoax Paper:

ARE BABIES BORN, OR DOES GOD CREATE THEM?

Whether one is born of a woman or created directly out of the dust of the ground as was Adam, they are both "creations of God." Here is Scriptural proof that created can be applied to those born of a woman:

"But now thus says the Lord that created thee, O Jacob, and He that formed you, O Israel..." (Isa. 43:1).

"...bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth; Even every one that is called by My name: for I have created him; yea, I have made him" (Isa. 43:6-7).

"Thus says the Lord God concerning the Ammonites... I will judge you [Ammonites] in the place where you were created..." (Ezek. 21:28 & 30).

"Have we not all one father? Has not one God created US [ALL mankind]" (Mal. 2:10).
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lareli

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2017, 03:20:02 PM »

So it would seem to George's question

As Genesis 1 is the full Creation, and then God Rested from all his work on the seventh day - and Adam and Eve were then made after the full Creation (and after He Created Mankind) - does this mean that God continued His Work of Creation after the six days?

The answer would be "yes" because God is still creating (unless I'm misunderstanding what Ray wrote)... or perhaps are we still in the 6th day?
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2017, 07:06:57 PM »

God has a plan:

Isa 46:10  Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

Eph 1:4  According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Eph 1:5  Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, 

Before the foundation of the world includes Adam and Eve.

Ecc 3:11  He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.

Everything in God's plan has and is coming true.

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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2017, 10:55:02 PM »

Steven, I hope I can rest your mind by saying that Ray did NOT go into any theological tangents regarding who this "serpent" was, even though he did teach that there were people before "Adam". 

I've gone back and forth and here and there on this matter (an all related to it).  From my perspective, it is MOST important to remember (and learn if we have not) that no scripture is it's own interpretation.  I've said on this forum before that my "faith" is not in any creation "explanation".  I simply wasn't there, and I have great biblical company in that.  My "faith" is in Jesus Christ.

I can't trace my lineage back further than a handful of generations.  Few of us can do much better.  All I know is that all of "my people" were sinners, and that all but my mother are dead.  I really don't care much about "Adam" or "Eve" or Cain and Abel, or Seth...or the Serpent.  What they represented (whether in history or in inspired literature) is true, true, true.

It's is GRACE which is "super-abundant" over anything and everything that flowed from Genesis 3.  I don't care much what anybody's "opinion" is on these matters.  As long as they don't tell me that "the bible says" what the "Bible doesn't say" in support of their imaginings.   
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Eating from the beginning until after the flood
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2017, 11:08:32 PM »

Largeli, I'm too busy to do a proper word study on that English translation.  But let me say this with a clear head:  YOU were created in the womb.  The proof is that YOU are YOU and not anybody else, and nobody else is YOU.  But remember that not even the heavens and the earth were created out of nothing.

YOU were also formed in the womb, as were all of us.  It was the "forming" that made you what you were in the beginning.  What you are now is from a different sort of forming, in measure.

"But now thus says the Lord that created thee, O Jacob, and He that formed you, O Israel..." (Isa. 43:1).

"...bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth; Even every one that is called by My name: for I have created him; yea, I have made him" (Isa. 43:6-7).

"Thus says the Lord God concerning the Ammonites... I will judge you [Ammonites] in the place where you were created..." (Ezek. 21:28 & 30).

"Have we not all one father? Has not one God created US [ALL mankind]" (Mal. 2:10).

Well, hasn't HE?  If I could trace my lineage back to "Adam" and "Eve", I've STILL not gone back far enough, according to Scripture.
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.
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