Luke 19:11-27

[seriousaboutsalvation]

Hi, Luke 19:11-27.  Can someone help me to understand this?   

Thanks so much,  Daniel

[Mickiel]

Hi, Luke 19:11-27.  Can someone help me to understand this?   

Thanks so much,  Daniel

Greetings,

My understanding of it is that Christ gives an individual certain gifts , or a certain thing to do, and he expects them to do it; no matter what they think about it. The thing he gave me to do , I remember getting tired of doing it at times. I am a bit different, I don't stay put on one site, I go everywhere and spread this truth, because that is what he put on my heart to do.  For 26 years I have shared this marvelous truth, and all kinds of people reject it, but some have seen it. I often get tired of being rejected and called blasphemus, and being banned. And in these verse Christ is serious about this, you know, what he gave you and what he wants you to do. Jesus seems , at the end, to even be threatening those gifted.

I know a few years ago I had my fill of it, and I just stopped doing it. Even those called of God rejected me, and I was tired of walking alone. Well next thing you know my brother had cancer, and the next several months I got cancer; lung cancer, I used to smoke. A year later the cancer went terminal, and they gave me 6 months to live, which was last November. So the gift God gave me, ( or the coins), I began to not use them; I stopped growing. Its as if Jesus was saying to me, either you use your gifts, or I am going to remove your life from this planet! So I got back on the internet and resumed telling this truth everywhere. Its a very hard thing to do, and a very lonely existence. I never meet anyone called, hardly ever. And for some reason, when I go to sites of called people, its as if they fear me. Like I am going to hurt them or something. Which makes me feel unwanted, like I don't fit. Which tempts you to not use your gift.

So I think it means to simply use your gifts, because if you keep it to yourself, that angers Christ.

[cheekie3]

Daniel -

Hi.

Regarding your enquiry about:

Hi, Luke 19:11-27.  Can someone help me to understand this?   

Thanks so much,  Daniel

Luke 19:11-27J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)

11 Then as the crowd still listened attentively, Jesus went on to give them this parable, For the fact that he was nearing Jerusalem made them imagine that the kingdom of God was on the point of appearing.

12-24 "Once upon a time a man of good family went abroad to accept a kingdom and then return. He summoned ten of his servants and gave them each ten pounds, with the words, 'Use this money to trade with until I come back.' But the citizens detested him and they sent a delegation after him, to say, 'We will not have this man to be our king.' Then later, when he had received his kingdom, he returned and gave orders for the servants to whom he had given the money to be called to him, so that he could find out what profit they had made. The first came into his presence, and said, 'Sire, your ten pounds have made a hundred pounds more.' 'Splendid, my good fellow,' he said, 'since you have proved trustworthy over this small amount, I am going to put you in charge of ten towns.' The second came in and said, 'Sire, your ten pounds have made fifty pounds.' and he said to him, 'Good, you're appointed governor of five towns.' When the last came, he said, 'Sire, here are your ten pounds, which I have been keeping wrapped up in a handkerchief. I have been scared—I know you're a hard man, getting something for nothing and reaping where you never sowed.' To which he replied, 'You scoundrel, your own words condemn you! You knew perfectly well, did you, that I am a hard man who gets something for nothing and reaps where he never sowed? Then why didn't you put my money into the bank, and then when I returned I could have had it back with interest?' Then he said to those who were standing by, 'Take away his ten pounds and give it to the fellow who has a hundred.'

25-27 "'But, sire, he has a hundred pounds already,' they said to him. 'Yes,' he replied, 'and I tell you that the man who has something will get more given to him. But as for the man who has nothing, even his "nothing" will be taken away. And as for these enemies of mine who objected to my being their king, bring them here and execute them in my presence.'"

I do not understand all of this Parable - in that:

A. The Master was a hard man (and as this represents 'The Most High', perhaps, it refers to the fact that 'He does not permit any shortcuts', as we must all 'go through the fire' as 'He Directs' - and during these times 'Life is extremly hard and very painful'?).

B. I thought 'usury' / 'interest' is an abomination to The Most High.

The way I have understood the main part of this Parable is that when The Most High gifts a member of His Elect and Called and Chosen, they must 'act' upon it - and this equates to 'Works' as 'Faith without Works, is dead' - but this 'Faith' and this 'Works' is 'Christ in you' - as it is He that doeth these 'Works' by 'His Holy Spirit' in order to fulfill the 'intention' of The Most High.

With regards to these specific coins / talents / 'gifts' - from my own personal experience, these are in the main twofold:

I. When He puts you through the fire (as He is a consuming Fire) and tries you - by refining you as silver - in order to build His Character in you - which are the 'Fruit of the Spirit (which are His Characteristics - namely - Love, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Gentleness and and Self-Control)' - which I find most find 'Patience' or 'Long-suffering' and 'Self-Control' being the hardest to deal with. I personally, rightly or wrongly, put 'Self-Control at odds with Self-Defense' - and I may be wrong about this particular aspect.

II. When 'He Direct the member of His Elect to do His Works' through 'Christ Jesus, and by 'His Holy Spirit' - whereby it may seem that the member of His Elect is both 'the active part' and also 'an observer' of what 'He is doing through them'.
   
I hope this helps you a little.

I am sure others on this Forum will correct me if I am wrong about this; and perhaps enlighten us on the 'interest' and 'hard man' aspects of this Parable.

Warmest Regards.

George

[seriousaboutsalvation]

Thank you so much everyone. Lord willing , I will keep reading Rays teaching.  I so much LOVE it!!!!

Daniel

[John from Kentucky]

How refreshing.  Someone actually asking what Ray had to say.

We have many among us woefully ignorant of the Scriptures, but who want to teach us their opinions.  How boring.

Ray already has done the heavy lifting on the subject of parables with numerous supporting Scriptures.

All parables are about the same thing.  If you understand one parable, then you understand them all.

For those who really want to learn something, go to the 1st page of this website, just below the Lake of Fire articles, the 3rd article down is "12 Truths to Understanding His Word".  Read all 12 items, but especially truths 2, 3, and 4 to obtain fundamental truths about parables.

If you can stand more truth, locate the section on more of Ray's teachings, 2nd article down is one of Ray's bible studies called Foundational Truths Feb 2008, which has a section on parables.

One other thing needed is the Holy Spirit, without which you will not understand, no matter how hard you try, for your time has not yet come.

[Mickiel]

How refreshing.  Someone actually asking what Ray had to say.

We have many among us woefully ignorant of the Scriptures, but who want to teach us their opinions.  How boring.

Ray already has done the heavy lifting on the subject of parables with numerous supporting Scriptures.

All parables are about the same thing.  If you understand one parable, then you understand them all.

For those who really want to learn something, go to the 1st page of this website, just below the Lake of Fire articles, the 3rd article down is "12 Truths to Understanding His Word".  Read all 12 items, but especially truths 2, 3, and 4 to obtain fundamental truths about parables.

If you can stand more truth, locate the section on more of Ray's teachings, 2nd article down is one of Ray's bible studies called Foundational Truths Feb 2008, which has a section on parables.

One other thing needed is the Holy Spirit, without which you will not understand, no matter how hard you try, for your time has not yet come.

In my view, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a believer sharing their opinion about God, Christ or the bible. And if it does not match yours, then so be it; that does not make them some kind of outcast. This site may reject them, but not Christ. I am not ashamed of my ignorance, because I know God will lovingly fix that in his time. John the Baptist did not frequent all those churches of God, he walked alone and preached and taught people in the wilderness. And I am sure his understanding was differing than the church. Paul's understanding was differing from the church. Isaiah had a far different understanding. And David's understanding was ground breaking as well.

Christ does not base his judgment of an called individual based on this site.

[Dennis Vogel]

How refreshing.  Someone actually asking what Ray had to say.

We have many among us woefully ignorant of the Scriptures, but who want to teach us their opinions.  How boring.

Ray already has done the heavy lifting on the subject of parables with numerous supporting Scriptures.

All parables are about the same thing.  If you understand one parable, then you understand them all.

For those who really want to learn something, go to the 1st page of this website, just below the Lake of Fire articles, the 3rd article down is "12 Truths to Understanding His Word".  Read all 12 items, but especially truths 2, 3, and 4 to obtain fundamental truths about parables.

If you can stand more truth, locate the section on more of Ray's teachings, 2nd article down is one of Ray's bible studies called Foundational Truths Feb 2008, which has a section on parables.

One other thing needed is the Holy Spirit, without which you will not understand, no matter how hard you try, for your time has not yet come.

In my view, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a believer sharing their opinion about God, Christ or the bible. And if it does not match yours, then so be it; that does not make them some kind of outcast. This site may reject them, but not Christ. I am not ashamed of my ignorance, because I know God will lovingly fix that in his time. John the Baptist did not frequent all those churches of God, he walked alone and preached and taught people in the wilderness. And I am sure his understanding was differing than the church. Paul's understanding was differing from the church. Isaiah had a far different understanding. And David's understanding was ground breaking as well.

Christ does not base his judgment of an called individual based on this site.

No, but we judge what goes on this forum to keep the piece. http://bible-truths.com/video/NoTeaching.mp4

About 15 years ago as an experiment I created a board to let anyone say anything and it turned into something very ugly with a lot of name calling, etc.

Anyone is entitled to their opinion. But if Ray has not touched on a subject then it's best to not bring it up. Else the moderators will have to click the ban button, which none of us like to do.

[Mickiel]

How refreshing.  Someone actually asking what Ray had to say.

We have many among us woefully ignorant of the Scriptures, but who want to teach us their opinions.  How boring.

Ray already has done the heavy lifting on the subject of parables with numerous supporting Scriptures.

All parables are about the same thing.  If you understand one parable, then you understand them all.

For those who really want to learn something, go to the 1st page of this website, just below the Lake of Fire articles, the 3rd article down is "12 Truths to Understanding His Word".  Read all 12 items, but especially truths 2, 3, and 4 to obtain fundamental truths about parables.

If you can stand more truth, locate the section on more of Ray's teachings, 2nd article down is one of Ray's bible studies called Foundational Truths Feb 2008, which has a section on parables.

One other thing needed is the Holy Spirit, without which you will not understand, no matter how hard you try, for your time has not yet come.

In my view, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a believer sharing their opinion about God, Christ or the bible. And if it does not match yours, then so be it; that does not make them some kind of outcast. This site may reject them, but not Christ. I am not ashamed of my ignorance, because I know God will lovingly fix that in his time. John the Baptist did not frequent all those churches of God, he walked alone and preached and taught people in the wilderness. And I am sure his understanding was differing than the church. Paul's understanding was differing from the church. Isaiah had a far different understanding. And David's understanding was ground breaking as well.

Christ does not base his judgment of an called individual based on this site.

No, but we judge what goes on this forum to keep the piece. http://bible-truths.com/video/NoTeaching.mp4

About 15 years ago as an experiment I created a board to let anyone say anything and it turned into something very ugly with a lot of name calling, etc.

Anyone is entitled to their opinion. But if Ray has not touched on a subject then it's best to not bring it up. Else the moderators will have to click the ban button, which none of us like to do.

Well I understand if a person is being disruptive and un peaceful, but if they have not read the volumes of Rays writing how can they know they be blamed for having crossed some site line? I don't know everything Ray wrote. Its the same with the volumes of the bible, if a new person that believes has not read the entire bible, are we to judge them on that? How we understand the bible is more important than how we understand Ray; and that is not meant to belittle Ray, he was a great teacher, but he was not Christ. I mean but its your website, if you think its best to limit knowledge here to just Rays knowledge, then that is how you see it best, and I take no issue with it; I have seen stranger things.

I used to think everyone called understood the exact same thing, but that is just not true; I think it safe to say they see the basic things the same. How do you see 1 Corinth. 12:4-11? " 4, - Now there are diversities of Gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God that works it all. But the manifestation of the spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

One person given this, another that, to some more faith, some can even heal, to others prophecy, to another interpretation of things. But all those things work by the one same spirit, dividing to every man as God wills. I can't get jealous or unbelieving if a person has a gift of discerning spirits, and I don't. Or if one sees things that my group does not. If I am in a group that wants no new knowledge, from what ever source, I think something is wrong with that; oh so we now are  to stay stuck in the past and not advance in the knowledge of God? Spiritual knowledge advances beyond just what Ray taught, it does not stop with one man. It does not stop with any biblical writer, even Paul mentioned that it was his " Present knowledge" that he had, boy I can't find that scripture. But in 1Corinth. 13:12 he said now we see through a glass darkly, that means we all miss things that are true.

But anyhow, far be it from me to try and change anyone. I just don't get it, I guess that is why I have never fit in with the people of God. They just do things that I just don't understand.

[Dennis Vogel]

Why No Teaching On This Forum (transcript)

You know, because sometimes these discussions get a little out of hand... basically we teach that you are not suppose to 'teach' on the forum. The main reason for that is, many times it turns into heresy... but people can't always distinguish what is or what isn't heresy. Therefore they give their opinions and if somebody reads it on our forum, they say 'well this is what they teach on Ray's forum.' Yea, but Ray doesn't teach that on Ray's forum... somebody else does and we don't always agree. It's like these disclaimers for people on television, 'not everything said here today'... or whatever.

[Dave in Tenn]

The links John mentioned above.

http://bible-truths.com/twelve.htm

https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,6452.0.html

I hope those are helpful.

[Porter]

Daniel,

It's true, all parables mean the same thing as in "many are called, but few are chosen". I think the main thrust in all of this (at least to me) is the absolute sovereignty of God in deciding who will reap the benefits of His Spirit (minas) which is a down payment on His Kingdom to come.

Eph 1:11  In Him we were also made His inheritance, predestined according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will,
Eph 1:12  so that we who had already put our hope in the Messiah might bring praise to His glory.
Eph 1:13  In Him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation--in Him when you believed--were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
Eph 1:14  He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory. 

The ones who gave interest back are the chosen, the one who did not give interest back was only called. Both groups were caused by God to do or not do what they did according to His purpose. Ultimately it was God who made it grow.

1Co 3:7  So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
1Co 3:8  Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

I found it interesting that the one who made no interest was afraid and unbelieving which Christ warned against for those who will be chosen.

Joh 14:27  Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. 

Whats even more interesting is how much I've personally struggled with fear and unbelief lately. So studying this and sharing helps. Thanks Daniel.

I hope I wasn't out of line here, but if it wasn't for Ray's teachings which God gave him to share I'd still be in dark about this. This is after all why we are here; to discuss what we have learned from Ray at bible truths. I think it's worth repeating that Ray was right in that it's all One.

[Mickiel]

I often wonder about knowledge, and if God will only reveal it from one source? Well, I can't find that in scripture, believers learned from many prophets and apostles and deacons ; along with learning from women, who gave much money to Christ ministry. In Prov.1:5 " A wise man will hear, and will increase learning." It does not matter where he hears it; from a book , a website, a science article, or an old believer. Its as if the bible is suggesting that we seek knowledge, look for it where ever. In Prov. 15:14, "The heart of him that has understanding, seeks knowledge." You go out and look for it. It does not suggest that we sit in one place and hope to receive knowledge only there.

Hey its not even that important, because soon what we learned will pass away. 1Corinth. 13:8'" Charity never fails, but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail,  whether there be tongues, that shall cease, whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away." Because we have far more to learn in the Kingdom of God, what we learn here on earth will vanish. Its nothing to cherish. Not in the long run, or eternity. Knowledge will be increased in the end, Daniel 12:4, not just spiritual knowledge, but all knowledge. What do you think about Isaiah 9:7? Of the " Increase of his government and peace, there shall be no end." The government of God includes knowledge, understanding, love, joy, all the fruits of the spirit; those all will never stop increasing.

Real knowledge never stops increasing, with any church, any leader, or any group; knowledge cannot be limited, which is trying to limit God really. I say this in all seriousness and humble in spirit, I mean absolutely no insult to anyone. And if these be my last words here, then peace to you all. I hope the best for all of you.

[lareli]

I often wonder about knowledge, and if God will only reveal it from one source? Well, I can't find that in scripture, believers learned from many prophets and apostles and deacons ; along with learning from women, who gave much money to Christ ministry. In Prov.1:5 " A wise man will hear, and will increase learning." It does not matter where he hears it; from a book , a website, a science article, or an old believer. Its as if the bible is suggesting that we seek knowledge, look for it where ever. In Prov. 15:14, "The heart of him that has understanding, seeks knowledge." You go out and look for it. It does not suggest that we sit in one place and hope to receive knowledge only there.

Hey its not even that important, because soon what we learned will pass away. 1Corinth. 13:8'" Charity never fails, but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail,  whether there be tongues, that shall cease, whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away." Because we have far more to learn in the Kingdom of God, what we learn here on earth will vanish. Its nothing to cherish. Not in the long run, or eternity. Knowledge will be increased in the end, Daniel 12:4, not just spiritual knowledge, but all knowledge. What do you think about Isaiah 9:7? Of the " Increase of his government and peace, there shall be no end." The government of God includes knowledge, understanding, love, joy, all the fruits of the spirit; those all will never stop increasing.

Real knowledge never stops increasing, with any church, any leader, or any group; knowledge cannot be limited, which is trying to limit God really. I say this in all seriousness and humble in spirit, I mean absolutely no insult to anyone. And if these be my last words here, then peace to you all. I hope the best for all of you.

I understand what you're sayin brother.

If one can discern between good and evil (Hebrews 5:14) One can learn something new and true from almost anyone and anything.. even from unbelievers or a deceived Christian.. God can speak truth to us through nature or even through the mouth of a donkey if He wants to.

[John from Kentucky]

Just curious.

When we all joined this Forum, we agreed to follow the Forum rules.  There is an article under the Forum rules, which says "Read this before joining and posting on the Forum."

My question is, why do some of you lie and not follow the Forum rules?  What spirit leads you to lie?

Also, we come here as a place of refuge to rest in God's Truth.  If we wanted to read a bunch of false religious opinions, we could go to thousands of religious sites on the Internet.  That is if we first get a spiritual lobotomy and have most of our spiritual brains removed.

[Stacey]

"How we understand the bible is more important than how we understand Ray"

Mickiel,

We are not here to understand L Ray Smith. We are here to learn, study and discuss Ray's teachings/papers.

Understanding the bible is what Christendom tries to do on Sunday morning and evening and Wednesday nights.

Understanding Scripture is what Ray studied and has passed on to us.

I dont always agree with threads getting locked or members getting banned but I do understand completely the need to enforce the BT forum rules.

There are numerous sites to discuss what we have learned, how we have learned or who we learned knowledge from but this is not that kind of site. However, there is the option here to chat it up about anything through PM.

[Dennis Vogel]

I understand what you're sayin brother.

If one can discern between good and evil (Hebrews 5:14) One can learn something new and true from almost anyone and anything.. even from unbelievers or a deceived Christian.. God can speak truth to us through nature or even through the mouth of a donkey if He wants to.

And God can turn you into a singing teapot if He wants to. Meaningless statement because God can do anything.



Instead of what God can do, how about what God has to say about unbelievers?

2Co 4:4  In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

2Co 6:14  Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

2Co 6:15  And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

2Co 6:16  And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

2Co 6:17  Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

You mentioned Heb 5:14

Heb 5:14  But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Think about what I underlined.

[Mickiel]

"How we understand the bible is more important than how we understand Ray"

Mickiel,

We are not here to understand L Ray Smith. We are here to learn, study and discuss Ray's teachings/papers.

Understanding the bible is what Christendom tries to do on Sunday morning and evening and Wednesday nights.

Understanding Scripture is what Ray studied and has passed on to us.

I dont always agree with threads getting locked or members getting banned but I do understand completely the need to enforce the BT forum rules.

There are numerous sites to discuss what we have learned, how we have learned or who we learned knowledge from but this is not that kind of site. However, there is the option here to chat it up about anything through PM.

Greetings,

Well I am not a Christian , and I totally disagree with Christianity. Neither am I a trouble maker, but I am only conscious of , those things I am conscious of, and I do not  invade sects or groups off to themselves. I came here because I miss being with people of like minds, only I am not limited to learning from just one source. And if that be rejected, then so be it. I like and agree with Rays teachings, he had an incredible mind.  But I am not into locking myself to one teacher; I just don't understand that. It reminds me of the scripture that says come out from among them; and some , in my view, just take that too far. When God and Christ return, they will find me spreading this truth everywhere, and if they are against that I will be surprised and ask them why they put it in my heart to do so. But I know they are not, because this gospel of the Kingdom will go out all over this world, ; but anyhow peace to you; I love people who understand universal salvation, and its just a shame that I cannot get along with them; so I walk alone. And its better for me to leave, than to endure this kind of narrow vision.

Goodbye and peace on this journey.

[Dennis Vogel]

I just posted another talk where Ray tells us why no teaching.  https://youtu.be/kicm_Gnj-Mo

[Rick Longva]

Mickiel

I too understand what you are saying, but I also agree with the forums rules. These are Ray's teachings, teachings he had found through much study, and I am sure much prayer. So on his site it is his teachings that are discussed. When Ray was alive, I emailed him personally and asked questions, or questioned a finding of his (not to criticize), and he was very gracious in his reply. I had/have much respect for the man. I, like some, do not agree with some of his findings, and I know this is not the place to discuss my differences. I have been on other sites, and when there is a difference of opinion, as Dennis wrote, it gets ugly. So when someone new comes on board, or someone who wants to show others (not registered on the forum) how divided these people are in their understanding of the scriptures, they will use these divisive sites to show how Christ is parted, which in turn discredits much of the teachings. Just the other day I was told I was going to hell because I do not believe in hell, I was directed to a site that claims people actually went to hell and came back to warn us all of hell. I went on the site and read for about a minute and left. I could have joined the forum, but why, they would not listen to what I had to say, no more than I would listen to what they had to say. I didn't fit there. Here, at times, I feel I don't fit, as I said, I don't agree with all the teachings, but I know these people here believe in the reconciliation of all, they are brothers and sisters, that is what keeps me coming back, we have common ground. Also, there is much truth to be gleaned here.

If this is not allowed, please remove it.

There are sites which allow others to place articles on, after they pass the moderators inspection. I won't name them here (not allowed), but if you want to know just get a hold of me.

[lareli]

I understand what you're sayin brother.

If one can discern between good and evil (Hebrews 5:14) One can learn something new and true from almost anyone and anything.. even from unbelievers or a deceived Christian.. God can speak truth to us through nature or even through the mouth of a donkey if He wants to.

And God can turn you into a singing teapot if He wants to. Meaningless statement because God can do anything.



Instead of what God can do, how about what God has to say about unbelievers?

2Co 4:4  In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

2Co 6:14  Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

2Co 6:15  And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

2Co 6:16  And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

2Co 6:17  Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

You mentioned Heb 5:14

Heb 5:14  But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Think about what I underlined.

Not sure what your point is dennis... are you saying that deceived Christians or unbelievers can't teach something true? Because we've been over this and Ray plainly said otherwise.