Why God commanded the killing of infants?

[Nelson Boils]

1 Sam 15:3
"Go now and put Amalek to the sword, putting to the curse all they have, without mercy: put to death every man and woman, every child and BABY AT THE BREAST, every ox and sheep, camel and a@@."

How would you try explain why God commanded the Israelites to kill infants?

[AwesomeSavior]

I would keep four things in mind:

1) God is holy and righteous. Any command He gives is righteous. Is anyone going to tell God that He was wrong? haha

2) God dealt with carnal minded people differently in Old Testament times, before Grace and Truth came in Jesus Christ.

3) Romans 13:4 "For the one in authority is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God's servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer". Saul was King (in authority), a ruler who did bear the sword, and was God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment.

4) Many people cannot handle these truths.  God's will be done.

Dean

[lareli]

I guess the answer to your question, "How would you try explain why God commanded the Israelites to kill infants?"  Could be that the infant Amalekites grow into adults and repopulate and end up corrupting the Israelites.. or they could seek vengeance for the killing of their people..

But I think your question is in regard to the morality of God commanding the killing of infants, yes?

[Wanda]

God knew that the Amalekites would always oppose Israel, that the children of the Amalekites would do it when they grew up, and their descendants too; as we see with Haman in the book of Esther.


Amalekites are not simply threatening a people group with their determination to wipe out Israel, but they are a threat to the salvation plan of God for all other nations.

They weren’t Canaanites. Israel was not a threat to them; Israel was not going to take their land. Israel’s relationship to the Amalekites was like their relationship to the other Edomites when Israel said,

“Please let us pass through your land. We will not pass through field or vineyard, or drink water from a well. We will go along the King’s Highway. We will not turn aside to the right hand or to the left until we have passed through your territory.” (Num 20:17)

First up, who were the Amalekites? What made them so bad?

The Amalekites were the descendants and followers of Amalek, grandson of Esau, brother of Jacob also known as Israel. As such, the Amalekites weren’t total foreigners to God. Esau was the one who had sold his birthright and his part in God’s promise. He had been part of God’s covenant people, but he valued his own appetites more. So the Edomites (Esau’s descendants, including the Amalekites) were people who had opted out en masse
of the covenant which defined God’s people.

But the Amalekites really really didn’t like Israel. At the very birth of the nation of Israel, when they came out of Egypt and were at their most vulnerable, before they even got to Sinai and when they didn’t even have any water, the Amalekites came and attacked them. Israel were forced to fight their very first battle, fighting for their lives against the Amalekites, under the leadership of Moses. After God gave Moses an amazing victory,

Exodus 17 says this...

Then the Lord said to Moses, “Write this as a memorial in a book and recite it in the ears of Joshua, that I will utterly blot out the memory of Amalek from under heaven.” And Moses built an altar and called the name of it, The Lord Is My Banner, saying, “A hand upon the throne of the Lord! The Lord will have war with Amalek from generation to generation.” (Exod 17:14-16)

The Amalekites attack Israel though.

In Numbers 14:45, they attack Israel again while they are still in the desert.

In Judges 3:13 they join in with the Moabites in attacking Israel.

In Judges 6:3, they invade Israel “whenever the Israelites planted their crops”, and together with the Midianites “devour the produce of the land… and leave no sustenance in Israel and no sheep or ox or donkey” (6:4).

Later in Judges 6 and 7 they invade again and are fought off by Gideon.

looks very much as if it was the Amalekites who were at war with God.  Israel has a lot of wars between the time of Moses and the time of Saul, but they never once attack the Amalekites.

Durring all of these attacks on Gods people, were they not killing the children and babies?

The Amalekites show that generation after generation, they are at war with Israel and with God.


The Amalekites are like the bad Terminator in Terminator II – you’ve got to finish the job or he’ll re-form and keep coming after you.

The complete Sovereignty of God...He gives life he takes life and he restoreth life, all for the good of ALL.

Praise God Almighty for your righteous ways and love for us all, in spite of our sinful carnal condition!

[Nelson Boils]

"..morality of God..."Really?
No!

God does for a reason,so I would've like to know why would infants be killed.

According to Google,the meaning of infants:"a schoolchild between the ages of about four and eight."

Other bible translations use "infants," whereas the above translation uses "baby at the breast."

Ok Wanda,thanks for that info.
By the way,1 Sam 15:3 states the Israelites attacking the Amalekites

A child between 4 and 8 is surely not a "baby at the breast."perhaps Google has its definition incorrect.

[Wanda]

"..morality of God..."Really?
No!

God does for a reason,so I would've like to know why would infants be killed.

According to Google,the meaning of infants:"a schoolchild between the ages of about four and eight."

Other bible translations use "infants," whereas the above translation uses "baby at the breast."

Ok Wanda,thanks for that info.
By the way,1 Sam 15:3 states the Israelites attacking the Amalekites

A child between 4 and 8 is surely not a "baby at the breast."perhaps Google has its definition incorrect.

And Samuel said to Saul, "The Lord sent me to anoint you king over his people Israel; now therefore listen to the words of the Lord. Thus says the Lord of hosts, 'I have noted what Amalek did to Israel in opposing them on the way when they came up out of Egypt. Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.'" (1 Sam 15:1‑3)

God is stating what Amalek did to Israel in opposing them on the way when they came up out of Egypt. 

He is more than justified in his actions to defend his people against these people and their relentless opposition to his purpose,  for the complete salvation of ALL!

[John from Kentucky]

Another subtle attack on God from you know who.  Seen this many times before.

Brings to mind what Paul wrote.  My paraphrase from memory.

"Who are you O  man!  Does the thing created say to the Creator, 'What are You making?' "

[Wanda]

Yes, the killing of children and suckling babes is one of the most deplorable acts for us to consider, but you cannot look at this honestly, unless you can accept the complete sovereignty of God. This is where all truth is to be found.

John 8:31-33

31Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If you continue in my word, then are you my disciples indeed;32And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how say you, You shall be made free.

To me the kind of freedom Jesus is speaking of here, is just about the greatest gift of Gods mercy and Grace, we could ever have.

Allowing us to know him, love him and accept he is in control of EVERYTHING! In a world gone insane. For me, this is HUGE. If he has used his  sovereinty for the good of all his glory,  I'm totally on board.

[Porter]

God uses evil for our ultimate good. All the combined evil experiences of mankind cannot compare to the glory He has in store when this journey is finished.


Heb 9:27  And just as it is appointed for people to die once--and after this, judgment--


This includes everyone, men, women and children too. It's been this way from the beginning and will continue this way till the end after which the suffering, death and evil will finally be done away with and destroyed. However, the knowledge of evil we had gained through experience will stay with us for the ages.


This evil experience is pretty rough, and just trusting that God knows what He is doing has been pretty rough for me as well.

[Nelson Boils]

Ok,Wanda,I see what you saying.I didn't read the whole and build up to that verse.

Thanx.

[Wanda]

Ok,Wanda,I see what you saying.I didn't read the whole and build up to that verse.

Thanx.

All is good my brother, hope it helped in some way.

[indianabob]

Friends,

I think that I see the concern for "innocent" children in this assignment given to Israel, but I have a statement and a question. It is appointed unto all men to die once so what does it matter when we die?
We send our young men and women into battle with pride and yet we concern ourselves that they die too soon. While we don't seem as concerned about the grief of the parents of those they killed in battle.

This seems to me a little hypocritical. If parents and loved ones don't believe in a resurrection then I can understand the concern and pain that those who grieve are having. But we who know God's will to bring all into His family should perhaps have a more understanding view.

What choice really did Israel have in the heat of battle? Were they going to start an orphanage for thousands of babies and juveniles so they wouldn't starve? Or were they going to adopt them into their own family and deal with the obvious difficulty of defending what they had done to the natural parents of these kids? Wouldn't those children have resented being forced to live with Israel? Wouldn't it have brought trouble to both groups as the months and years passed? God loves us all but God has chosen to lead a chosen few both then and now in this era and knew that they could not be mixed and obey successfully.
Erasing the whole population and reserving them to a better time when Lord Jesus is ruling was the better choice for all concerned was it not?
Indiana Bob

[Musterseed]

Hi I-Bob, hope you are well my friend and everyone on BT.
I was looking at the verse Sam. 15:3 and I'm thinking ,,,,,this is no different than battles all over the world, now. I'm sure G. Bush wasn't the least bit concerned about the children when they destroyed Iraq or any other war then and now. The sacrifice of children is ongoing in many ways.
A subject I'd like to discuss. Another time. Anyway, I have another question after reading this
book of 1 Samuel.
Sam. 4-7
So Saul summoned the people and numbered them in Telaim(why number them)? two hundred thousand men on foot and ten thousand men of Judah.
5-And Saul came to the city of Amalek and (lay in wait) in the valley.
6- Then Saul said to the Kenites. (Go , depart; go down from among the Amaleikes, lest I
destroy you with them for (you showed kindness )to all the people of Israel when they came up
out of Egypt.So the (Kenites) departed from among the Amaleikes etc,'

I could be totally confused but this reads like a parable of the many and the few to me.Also
Who are the Kenites and why did Saul give them a heads up before he attacked . By doing this
maybe a lot of the people , including children were spared. IDK, I'm thinking the Amaleikes
are a symbol for the many and the Kenites a symbol for the Few. Plus The Kenites showed the people of Israel kindness( does this mean they believed in Israel?
If this is not correct and someone out in BT land knows, please shut me down before I continue studying on this subject so I can get on the right path as the OT is a challenge for me.Thanks and God Bless,,,,,Pamela ❤️

Ray said "when we read about Israel, we read about Jesus, and when we read about Jesus we read obout us".     Does this apply here?

[arion]

How would you try explain why God commanded the Israelites to kill infants?

Simple.  He is God and we are not.  If there was a better way for him to accomplish his will for all humanity then he would of done it that way.  IF this life was all that there is with no resurrection then I would be tempted to say that it is unjust for God to have issued such a command.  But that isn't the case now, is it?  A thousand years in his sight is as a day and a day as a thousand years.  Even if a man lives to a ripe old age it's only the blink of an eye on God's timeline.  All will be resurrected, all will be judged and all will be made into his express image in his time.  All those who have died including infants will be resurrected and learn the truths of God.  I'm a simple man and when questions happen that I don't understand why God did something a certain way I return to this often.

If there was a better way for God to accomplish his will for humanity then he would do it that way.

I rest fully in that.  It is enough.

[Dave in Tenn]

Hi I-Bob, hope you are well my friend and everyone on BT.
I was looking at the verse Sam. 15:3 and I'm thinking ,,,,,this is no different than battles all over the world, now. I'm sure G. Bush wasn't the least bit concerned about the children when they destroyed Iraq or any other war then and now. The sacrifice of children is ongoing in many ways.
A subject I'd like to discuss. Another time. Anyway, I have another question after reading this
book of 1 Samuel.
Sam. 4-7
So Saul summoned the people and numbered them in Telaim(why number them)? two hundred thousand men on foot and ten thousand men of Judah.
5-And Saul came to the city of Amalek and (lay in wait) in the valley.
6- Then Saul said to the Kenites. (Go , depart; go down from among the Amaleikes, lest I
destroy you with them for (you showed kindness )to all the people of Israel when they came up
out of Egypt.So the (Kenites) departed from among the Amaleikes etc,'

I could be totally confused but this reads like a parable of the many and the few to me.Also
Who are the Kenites and why did Saul give them a heads up before he attacked . By doing this
maybe a lot of the people , including children were spared. IDK, I'm thinking the Amaleikes
are a symbol for the many and the Kenites a symbol for the Few. Plus The Kenites showed the people of Israel kindness( does this mean they believed in Israel?
If this is not correct and someone out in BT land knows, please shut me down before I continue studying on this subject so I can get on the right path as the OT is a challenge for me.Thanks and God Bless,,,,,Pamela ❤️

Ray said "when we read about Israel, we read about Jesus, and when we read about Jesus we read obout us".     Does this apply here?

For what it's worth, I agree with you.  And it's not the only foreshadowing of the many/few, called/chosen in the OT.  I also agree that the OT is a challenge.  We are to compare spiritual with spiritual.  For me, that "ends" a ton of otherwise fruitless speculation.  The New is not the Old. 

[Wanda]

Hi I-Bob, hope you are well my friend and everyone on BT.
I was looking at the verse Sam. 15:3 and I’m thinking ,,,,,this is no different than battles all over the world, now. I’m sure G. Bush wasn’t the least bit concerned about the children when they destroyed Iraq or any other war then and now. The sacrifice of children is ongoing in many ways.
A subject I’d like to discuss. Another time. Anyway, I have another question after reading this
book of 1 Samuel.
Sam. 4-7
So Saul summoned the people and numbered them in Telaim(why number them)? two hundred thousand men on foot and ten thousand men of Judah.
5-And Saul came to the city of Amalek and (lay in wait) in the valley.
6- Then Saul said to the Kenites. (Go , depart; go down from among the Amaleikes, lest I
destroy you with them for (you showed kindness )to all the people of Israel when they came up
out of Egypt.So the (Kenites) departed from among the Amaleikes etc,'

I could be totally confused but this reads like a parable of the many and the few to me.Also
Who are the Kenites and why did Saul give them a heads up before he attacked . By doing this
maybe a lot of the people , including children were spared. IDK, I’m thinking the Amaleikes
are a symbol for the many and the Kenites a symbol for the Few. Plus The Kenites showed the people of Israel kindness( does this mean they believed in Israel?
If this is not correct and someone out in BT land knows, please shut me down before I continue studying on this subject so I can get on the right path as the OT is a challenge for me.Thanks and God Bless,,,,,Pamela ❤️

Ray said “when we read about Israel, we read about Jesus, and when we read about Jesus we read obout us”.     Does this apply here?

Pamela I'm in agreement with you as well.

As for the numbering of the troops...

This was another disobedience to God Saul displayed.

The primary reason in the Old Testament for taking a census was to know the size of a nation's army and its ability to win wars against other people (Numbers 1:1-4, see also verse 19)!

A man only had the right to count or number what belonged to him. Israel did not belong to David; Israel belonged to God. In Exodus 30:12 God told Moses, “When you take a census of the Israelites to count them, each one must pay the LORD a ransom for his life at the time he is counted. Then no plague will come on them when you number them.” It was up to God to command a census, and if David counted he should only do it at God’s command, receiving a ransom to “atone” for the counting. This is why God was angry again with Israel and is also why David was “conscience-stricken” after he counted

Numbers signifies power in this regard. Saul was puffed up with pride because he had a mighty army, giving mo credit to God nor trusting in him to lead them in battle.

Who were the Kenites...You are right they were spared because of their kind dealings with the Israelites.

They were an ancient people living near the land of Canaan around the time of Abraham (Genesis 15:18–21). The Bible mentions several dealings between the Israelites and the Kenites, who were always on friendly terms with each other.

Moses eventually Married  one of them, a woman named Zipporah (Exodus 2:16–21) and thus married into the Kenite tribe. Moses lived among the Kenites for many years before God called him as the one to deliver the Israelites from their enslavement in Egypt.

seems that the Kenites in Midian knew enough about the one true God to maintain a priest. The name Reuel means “friend of God.” After the exodus, Reuel’s knowledge of God dramatically increased, and he joined Moses and Aaron in bringing a burnt sacrifice and other offerings before the Lord to worship Him (Exodus 18:9–12).

I don't have an answe for your last question, but Ray did say on a few occasions ...It's all one thing and I see that more everyday.

[octoberose]

I don't think we can presume to know the motives of G.Bush or anyone. And as a retired soldiers  wife, I can tell you the last thing they want to do is kill innocents.

[Nelson Boils]

I wonder how did the Israelites feel when God gave them that commandment.Did they think "whoa!Kill suckling babies?"

I think it must've been difficult for them to follow through..

Perhaps it may have been a test on whether they will OBEY God above everything.Reminds me of whomever loves brother,mother,sister more than Jesus,is not worthy to be his disciple.

His commandments are difficult to follow!

[ZekeSr]

Sometimes I have a hard time reading many of the things in the OT. And when I ask, "Why?," I have to turn to the New Testament in order to regroup my thoughts. So, I have nothing to add to this discussion in the way of explanation.
But consider this: Since 1973 Roe vs Wade, we as a so-called Christian nation have slaughtered 50 million (and counting) of our own innocents for no good reason.

Mike

[lareli]

I don't think we can presume to know the motives of G.Bush or anyone. And as a retired soldiers  wife, I can tell you the last thing they want to do is kill innocents.

That's a nice sentiment and before the internet existed I probably believed it. But the internet has brought more truth to light then has ever been before...