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Punishment of evil minded preachers/theologians
Wanda:
Ray is telling us we won't believe it, because their sin is so great in the eyes of God , that we're expecting the punishment to fit the crime, but are our sins any less offensive?
The answer is in his teaching on Repentance and Guilty of all, if you read the transcript, from...
HELL IS THE ULTIMATE BLASPHEMY
To the end of the transcript, he leaves no question as to their punishment.
GUILTY OF ALL
What I want you to see today is, that you are no better than this Hansan guy [when the audio began Ray was already talking about this guy] who killed and raped these little children. You're no better. Now I know you didn’t do it, but you are no better. That might be hard to believe, but I am going to try and show it to you.
You know the scripture.
1Cor 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
Well, we go to Matt. 7 and we read this, “judge not.”
Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Is that a contradiction? “Know ye not that we shall judge the world and judge angels?” “Judge not.” Jesus Christ says.
John 8:15, I judge no man.
He is the righteous judge of the world, but “I judge no man.” And in John 12;
John 12:46 I have come as a Light into the world, so that whoever believes on Me should not remain in darkness.
v. 47 And if any one hears My Words and does not believe, I do not judge him, for I do not come to judge the world, but to save the world.
Well, how’s He going to judge the world if He says, I don’t judge any man? I didn’t come to judge the world... and you should judge not. How does that fit? Does anybody have any ideas, are these contradictions? Actually they are not.
As you judge... as you condemn... That sometimes, the same word can be used with two slightly different connotations. Though judgment can mean to do good and to set right, it can also mean to render a sentence. Whatever you think you're going to render, it could be bad, because there’s always two possible sentences to be rendered. Innocent and guilty, right? Judgment means to render a sentence. It has no bias as to which way it renders the sentence, it just means to render a sentence. It could be guilty and it could be innocent. But this verse does not stand alone.
THE BEAM THAT IS IN YOUR OWN EYE
Matt 7:1 Judge not, that you may not be judged.
v. 2 For with whatever judgment you judge, you shall be judged; and with whatever measure you measure out, it shall be measured to you again.
v. 3 And why do you behold the mote that is in your brother's eye, but do not consider the beam that is in your own eye?
CORRUPT MANKIND
Isn’t it easy to condemn this Hansan guy for killing and raping these little children. Isn’t it easy to almost want to spit in his face. Isn’t it easy.
This says, "for you to judge you do the same thing." Oh come on, I never raped or killed any little children, has any body else here? None of you have done that. But it says...
Rom 2:1 Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; you judge another you do the same things.
v. 2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things.
v. 3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God?
Twice he mentions it, “You judge another you do the same things.” How can this be? I mean come on, I never raped a child, how can this be? Alright let’s go back to chapter 1.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of MEN…
That word "men" means humans, human kind or mankind, you could almost put the human race there.
Rom 1:18 …who by their unrighteousness suppress (means hold back) the truth.
v. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.
Repentance And Guilty Of All...
https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,3709.0.html
Wanda:
In the last part of the transcript, Ray shows the complete sovereignty of our Lord in this matter.
IF YOU BREAK ONE, YOU'RE GUILTY OF ALL!
Now let’s just think about this a little bit. We always thought about this verse on a level about here. You know you break one, you’re guilty of them all. We thought like, 'well I guess if you committed adultery and God said you shouldn’t, so I guess you dishonor God and so you break the first commandment or something like that.'
But does this verse mean what it says, if you break one, you’re guilty of all? Are you ahead of me yet? Do you know where I’m going with this? Some are figuring it out.
If you break one point of God’s royal Law, you are guilty of all!
Maybe you're going to see something here that you never conceived of before. That is if you break one point of His law... we’re not talking about the spiritual law here. You know how Christ made the law so much higher than Moses' law. One says don’t commit this sin, Christ said don’t even THINK it, okay. Much higher law. If you break one point, your GUILIY of all! Now back to Romans.
Rom. 2:1 Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.
How can Paul say that everybody in here is a child molester and a murderer? How can he say that? Because if you break one point of the law you’re guilty of all!
The only reason we haven’t literally molested little children and cut their head off, is because GOD PREVENTS IT! One scripture says God frames evil (Jer 18:11). You know what it is when you put a frame around something, you know frame it. He frames evil, so it won’t go totally out of control. What appears to be out of control today in the world, is actually framed. God knows how far it’s going. Nothing is out of control.
So don’t take credit for the fact that you didn’t molest children and kill them. You weren’t lead down that evil alley. You weren’t born into the family that would cause you to go down that alley. You weren’t always frustrated to the point where you were just hell bent on just doing some evil foul thing like that. God prevented it.
God makes vessels of honor and dishonor. He makes vessels of dishonor and then has mercy on the other vessels. Some He hardens and some He has mercy on. He has had mercy on everybody in this room. If you have never killed anybody or molested children or done any of these horrendous things. He has great mercy on your life. Now we need to be thankful for that and not assume we don’t have very much to repent of. We have to repent of what? "O man," that’s what we have to repent of.
Whatever "O man" is. That’s what we are, because "O man" is Adam. "O man" came out of Adam. Where did you come from, some place else? We’re all out of Adam. What does Adam do? "Being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness, full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters" and on and on (Rom 1:29-31). Wow! This is "O man" out of Adam. This is what he does and only by the grace of God, some of us didn’t have to go that route.
ZekeSr:
Personally, I'm not sitting in judgment. I am well aware of the fact that I am guilty of crucifying Christ and guilty of all. It is one of the reasons why I have frequently pondered Paul's adversity. It makes me wonder: What is the suffering that will I need to endure in this age or the next. There was a time when I thought sure I would be among the chosen. How pathetic I was to even entertain the thought. I agonize over the notion that I once saw myself as "not such a bad person compared to most." Now, I only hope for mercy. No one knows if they are among the chosen until that day. But that does not change the fact that we can recognize blatant iniquities among those who claim to be shepherds. Perhaps I did not get that across properly. And I do realize that we have to be very very very careful with this subject. And perhaps it should be dropped. But you must also remember that Rocco was only working off his curiosity over Ray's comment concerning this.
Mike
Wanda:
--- Quote from: ZekeSr on February 07, 2018, 06:36:19 PM ---Personally, I'm not sitting in judgment. I am well aware of the fact that I am guilty of crucifying Christ and guilty of all. It is one of the reasons why I have frequently pondered Paul's adversity. It makes me wonder: What is the suffering that will I need to endure in this age or the next. There was a time when I thought sure I would be among the chosen. How pathetic I was to even entertain the thought. I agonize over the notion that I once saw myself as "not such a bad person compared to most." Now, I only hope for mercy. No one knows if they are among the chosen until that day. But that does not change the fact that we can recognize blatant iniquities among those who claim to be shepherds. Perhaps I did not get that across properly. And I do realize that we have to be very very very careful with this subject. And perhaps it should be dropped. But you must also remember that Rocco was only working off his curiosity over Ray's comment concerning this.
Mike
--- End quote ---
Mike... I should have worded that differently, so I did edit my post.
I remember the first time I listened to the audio and read the transcript, I too had my curiocity piqued about that same thing, and looked for further information from Ray.
I continued to read the transcript many more times before it became clear to me. Sorry if it sounded like I was being judgemental, it was not my intention.
In Christ's love
Dave in Tenn:
Rocco, briefly, I don't think Ray ever made public a specific answer to your question. I don't think we are left in the dark, however. We have to put Scripture together. Others (as well as Ray--thanks, Wanda, for those quotes) provided some.
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