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Author Topic: Billy Graham  (Read 6840 times)

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lauriellen

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Billy Graham
« on: February 21, 2018, 07:41:26 PM »

All the locals are gushing over Billy Graham today. All I can think of is that he probably did more to spread the lie of hell than almost anyone who has ever lived.
Lauriellen.
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Stacey

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Re: Billy Graham
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2018, 12:25:40 PM »

Seems he changed his way of thinking somewhat later in life. I read this on another forum.


“Billy Graham, as he aged, seems to have done what the Apostle Peter admonished Christians to do, “grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ” (II Peter 3:18). He apparently grew so much that he became what has been called an “inclusivist.” This term means that all people, who lived up to the spiritual light they had, even if they never heard of salvation in Christ before dying, will be saved, because God will impute Christ’s righteousness to them. Consequently, many Fundamentalists have called him a heretic, due to believing in Universalism, the belief that all people will be saved. No, Graham, was not a Universalist, just, as an inclusivist, almost one.”
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Stacey

indianabob

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Re: Billy Graham
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2018, 01:48:40 PM »

Seems he changed his way of thinking somewhat later in life. I read this on another forum.


“Billy Graham, as he aged, seems to have done what the Apostle Peter admonished Christians to do, “grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ” (II Peter 3:18). He apparently grew so much that he became what has been called an “inclusivist.” This term means that all people, who lived up to the spiritual light they had, even if they never heard of salvation in Christ before dying, will be saved, because God will impute Christ’s righteousness to them. Consequently, many Fundamentalists have called him a heretic, due to believing in Universalism, the belief that all people will be saved. No, Graham, was not a Universalist, just, as an inclusivist, almost one.”
Hi Stacey,

Isn't it still the case that one needs to "believe" in order for God to impute righteousness?
So then a person who had never heard could not be a believer in something that they had not heard. Romans 10:14

Mr. Graham was still in error whether or not he knew it.

Indiana bob
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Musterseed

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Re: Billy Graham
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2018, 01:56:57 PM »

Philippians 4:8
“Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely,
whatever is admirable,,,,, if anything is excellent or praiseworthy,,, think about such things”


IS HELL ANY OF THESE THINGS?
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" No man can come to me,except the Father draw him"
                                   (John 6: 44)

Wanda

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Re: Billy Graham
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2018, 02:41:25 PM »

4. Matthew 15:14

so ignore them.They are blind guides leading the blind, and if one blind person guides another, they will both fall into a ditch


9. 2 Corinthians 11:14

But I am not surprised! Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.

16. 1 Corinthians 1:21

or since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.

2 Corinthians 4:3

3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing.

2 Corinthians 3:16-18

16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory,are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.





« Last Edit: February 22, 2018, 03:04:01 PM by Wanda »
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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

ZekeSr

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Re: Billy Graham
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2018, 05:14:26 PM »

Here is a quote from Ray in one of his emails:

"Paul said that there were those in his day that were preaching Christ for the WRONG reasons. He nonetheless said that Christ was at least being preached to some degree.   

There have been many people who have come to Jesus Christ through churches or ministries that are totally out of step with the Scriptures.  Many of these people write to me and tell me that although they found Christ in this or that church or ministry, that they were unfulfilled until God showed them His real plan of salvation for all. And that's one way in which God works through His own enemies of the Cross."

Mike
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Stacey

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Re: Billy Graham
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2018, 05:55:54 PM »

Indianabob, yes we have to believe and yes he was still in error.
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Stacey

indianabob

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Re: Billy Graham
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2018, 11:46:56 PM »

Thanks for the reply Stacey,
True, there are millions of people out there who would be great neighbors and yet they remain uninterested in further knowledge.
I know quite a few of them here in my home town. We meet at the local coffee shop once a week.
People who would always come to your aid if you needed them. :D
= =
So our task it seems to me is to be the best example that we can be and wait upon God's timing for their enlightenment.
When God puts a desire in their heart they will be after us with more questions that we can handle.
Indiana bob
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arion

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Re: Billy Graham
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2018, 01:01:29 PM »

I won't speak ill of the dead although find it interesting that he hob-knobbed with every President since Truman and had access to all of them.  A man of God would have something to say to men who practice evil as part and parcel of their business and Billy probably wouldn't of been invited back.  Ray did have a few things to say about him though;


/snip
BILLY GRAHAM AT THE NATIONAL CATHEDRAL, WASHINGTON, D.C.

Four days after the terrorist attack on the World Trade Center, Billy Graham addressed an audience of distinguished members of the United States Government, the citizens of America, and the people of the world.

Now I don't mean to single out Mr. Graham above other celebrity preachers, but he just happens to be the man responsible for the following "smooth and deceitful" rhetoric against which Isaiah so forcefully warned:

    "But how do we understand something like this? Why does God allow evil like this to take place? Perhaps that is what you are asking now. You may even be angry with God."

COMMENT: You would think Mr. Graham never read the Bible. "WHY does God allow evil like this to take place? Unbelievable! WHY? Here's why:

https://bible-truths.com/towers.htm
/snip


He had a lot more to say about him and little of it was positive.
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microlink

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Re: Billy Graham
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2018, 01:49:07 PM »

Ray had a few comments about Billy Graham. Following up on Arions post, in number 10 of the Lake of Fire series is an section - BILLY GRAHAM DEFENDS GOD AGAINST EVIL. A major error in Billies thinking.

http://bible-truths.com/lake10.html
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arion

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Re: Billy Graham
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2018, 02:20:02 PM »

I watched a bit of the service and if I was still in Christendom I would of been enthralled.  I have no doubt that Billy, his late wife and children do love the Lord with the limited understanding that they have and that we all had at one point.  But for them it still comes down to respond to an altar call and pray a prayer and presto chango your immediately saved.  I do wonder however as Billy approached the end of his life if he ever questioned any of the doctrines that he espoused.

For the heck of it I went to their website to look at their statement of faith.  In the past I would of seen nothing wrong with it and now error after error.  I.E.; 

We believe the Bible to be the inspired, the only infallible, authoritative Word of God revealing the love of God to the world.

Umm, the scriptures and not the bible are infallible otherwise what particular bible do they consider infallible?


We believe that there is one God, eternally existent in three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit

Since when is the spirit of God a separate person from the Father and Son?  It's like introducing yourself to someone 'Hello, my name is Doug and this is my spirit Fred'.


....Furthermore we believe that God will reward the righteous with eternal life in heaven, and that He will banish the unrighteous to everlasting punishment in hell.

Did Billy believe at the end of his life that although God is love and love never fails but yet the God of loved he preached for 70 years is going to torture the vast majority of his creation in real fire for all eternity?  We are commanded to love our enemies but apparently by their theology God's love turns to incredible hatred when the sinner dies.  Did he still believe all that with no qualms? 


We believe in the resurrection of both the saved and the lost; the saved unto the resurrection of eternal life and the lost unto the resurrection of damnation and eternal punishment


What do they need a resurrection for because as they said in the service Jesus was already waiting for Billy and now Billy is alive and in heaven seated at Jesus feet?  How can a man serve God for 70 years and still believe all the contradictions?  It was a nice service with all the nice touches and accolades but I wonder how many of them have ever been confronted with the beast within and come face to face with the real enemy?  I'm glad that God has taught me some of these lessons on this side of the veil instead of on the other side in the 2nd resurrection.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2018, 02:22:18 PM by Arion »
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Billy Graham
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2018, 03:08:41 PM »

And all those things make perfect sense as long as your eyes are clouded.  That's why they made perfect sense to me and others of us until they began to not make sense at all. 

I'd have to be a pretty hardhearted so-and-so to not acknowledge that there have been many individuals whose "present" lives (these lives as grass) have been positively effected through ministries such as Graham's--and even of others far worse than him, just as many were healed and raised from the dead before Pentecost. 

I also have to acknowledge that those whom the Lord is choosing/carving out/separating and undergoing Judgement in the Fire of God in this life as grass are not some breed apart, but come from (and out of) the masses represented and led by these preachers.  This is a strange work the Lord is doing and we had no real say in any of it.  Nor do we now.  It's all of Him.  Some know that, and many have yet to learn it.  But their salvation is as sure as yours and mine.

   
« Last Edit: March 04, 2018, 12:00:04 AM by Dave in Tenn »
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Wanda

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Re: Billy Graham
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2018, 07:23:35 PM »

This is my second go round at being drawn to the truth, Im one blessed son of a gun. First it was as a JW, our slogan, "The Truth" we were Gods chosen people, heck he even gave us his name so there would be no doubt in our minds, and most importantly, signifying our seperation from the world. That's an honor of the highest importance, with expectations that were even higher. God fearing people, with lives devoted to serving him under very strict and rigid observance.  This was Gods will for me then, and it's his will for those still there.

It was by his grace I was given this indescribable freedom of his truth. Drawing from experience and God's word,  I feel a sense of sadness for those God has neither called or chosen. I just can't wrap my head around why he called me. I was no better than my fellow believer, and in some ways I was worse.

Who was Billy Graham?

A man who was respected by many, believers and non believers as well.
A man who never had one public report of imorality brought against him,  to bring shame and dishoner to himself or his family.
A man who believed he was doing the will of the Father
A man who lived a rather modest and simple life
A gentle and loving father and husband, inspired by his love and devotion to God.
A man who could only do the will of God
Because God willed it so.

I watched a video of Mr. Graham when he was 96. He was at his home, sitting in his wheelchair, speaking of his deep reflection into the things of God since retiring.  He had come to understand hell was not a litteral place of fiery torment, but rather a state of being cut off from God for eternity. He said he could not think of a worse torment than that.

He truly believed he was going home to God when he died. Maybe this was God's mercy and Mr. Graham's ignorant bliss.






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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

Dave in Tenn

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Re: Billy Graham
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2018, 09:08:09 PM »


Who was Billy Graham?

A man who was respected by many, believers and non believers as well.
A man who never had one public report of imorality brought against him,  to bring shame and dishoner to himself or his family.
A man who believed he was doing the will of the Father
A man who lived a rather modest and simple life
A gentle and loving father and husband, inspired by his love and devotion to God.
A man who could only do the will of God
Because God willed it so.

I watched a video of Mr. Graham when he was 96. He was at his home, sitting in his wheelchair, speaking of his deep reflection into the things of God since retiring.  He had come to understand hell was not a litteral place of fiery torment, but rather a state of being cut off from God for eternity. He said he could not think of a worse torment than that.

Some of those might be true, depending on what standard of measure you use.  Even the heathen can manage some of those.

I'll bet you if he had thought about it long enough, he could have thought of a worse torment than that.  That bit of twaddle is more at the heart of blaspheming God than what kind of "hell" you preach is.  "Hell light" might sound more pleasing to the ear than "Hell heavy" to a softhearted listener, but if "Separation from God for all eternity" (even though this is such an impossible a state as can enter the soft-headed imagination) is truly "the worst torment he could think of", then he has condemned himself with his own words.

He was as fine a man as many of the godless, an inspiring and influential minister of Satan preaching an impossible gospel, and he raised a son worse than himself.  I don't know what glories God may have revealed to him in the waning years of his thinking life, but if the above is the end of it, then that's not the end of it.



       

     
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Wanda

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Re: Billy Graham
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2018, 09:31:31 PM »

The saintly attributes are courtesy of the media,  and their porttraial  of him throughout his life.  I never followed his ministry,  and know zilch about the man he was. He could have been a wonenizer, child molester or drunk for all I know. I wasn't singing his praises,  just not judging him.

I don't know how much thinking went into that bit of twaddle, ☺ apparently very little.
Graham also believed there was life on other planets, and this one,  was the only one rebelling against God.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2018, 09:49:20 PM by Wanda »
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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12
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