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Paul,Apostle of Christ
indianabob:
Dear friend Largeli,
Your comment gives pause to my all encompassing statement.
You make a valid point.
I should not group all members of the forum together or even all humans together as if God was granting progress to all in this age.
After some thought I will defend myself just a little.
I used to belong to Worldwide church and observed the seventh day sabbath as well as the "Jewish" holy days and some of the commandments that Jesus observed during his time on earth. The challenges I faced with my family during that time were unnecessary for those who believe in grace as opposed to keeping the law, but of course I did not know any better until God opened my eyes. So it was after my eyes were opened that God began to grant me progress in the right direction.
I don't believe that God always sends deceivers to trip up those elect that God has called according to His purpose. My thought is that God allows His chosen to be drawn away by their own human weaknesses in order to "compel" them to recognize their limitations and weaknesses and to seek God's help and strengthening.
So in that situation God is like a good sports coach who tests a team member to show them their limitations and to help them recognize that no matter how strong and talented they think that they are they still NEED God and always will.
I hope that this response may better explain my understanding.
Correction of the moderators is welcome. Indiana bob
Dave in Tenn:
--- Quote from: largeli on March 14, 2018, 10:29:16 AM ---Is it even possible to progress at all without discerning between good and evil?
--- End quote ---
Discerning BETWEEN good and evil is actually the easy part. It can be "done" by the heathen, the godless, and by any spiritual "minor".
Gen_2:16 And Jehovah God commanded the man, saying, Eating you may eat of every tree in the garden;
Gen_2:17 but of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil you may not eat, for in the day that you eat of it, dying you shall die.
The Knowledge of both GOOD and EVIL was in the fruit of the tree. There isn't the fruit of the knowledge of evil on one branch, and the fruit of the knowledge of good on the other. When Adam ate, he ate the knowledge of them both in the same fruit. You can't have one without the other.
Paul put it this way:
Heb_5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Both good and evil. Both.
This can't be done by the heathen, the godless, and by spiritual "minors". "Heb 5:13 ...for everyone partaking of milk is without experience in the Word of Righteousness, for he is an infant." They may "know" their milk is "good" and may even "know" that other "milk" is evil, but that's the limit of their "knowledge". And it's difficult at best to talk to them like you would "them that are of full age."
lareli:
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on March 14, 2018, 05:25:09 PM ---
--- Quote from: largeli on March 14, 2018, 10:29:16 AM ---Is it even possible to progress at all without discerning between good and evil?
--- End quote ---
Discerning BETWEEN good and evil is actually the easy part. It can be "done" by the heathen, the godless, and by any spiritual "minor".
Gen_2:16 And Jehovah God commanded the man, saying, Eating you may eat of every tree in the garden;
Gen_2:17 but of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil you may not eat, for in the day that you eat of it, dying you shall die.
The Knowledge of both GOOD and EVIL was in the fruit of the tree. There isn't the fruit of the knowledge of evil on one branch, and the fruit of the knowledge of good on the other. When Adam ate, he ate the knowledge of them both in the same fruit. You can't have one without the other.
Paul put it this way:
Heb_5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Both good and evil. Both.
This can't be done by the heathen, the godless, and by spiritual "minors". "Heb 5:13 ...for everyone partaking of milk is without experience in the Word of Righteousness, for he is an infant." They may "know" their milk is "good" and may even "know" that other "milk" is evil, but that's the limit of their "knowledge". And it's difficult at best to talk to them like you would "them that are of full age."
--- End quote ---
Bare with me Dave.. I know I’m missing something here..
You started by saying that discerning between good and evil can be done by the heathen, the godless, etc.. but then your last statement says that discerning both good and evil can’t be done by the heathen, etc..
It looks like you’re making a distinction between the words “between” and “both” but I don’t see how they are different in the sense of “discerning between/both good and evil”??
Dave in Tenn:
It looks like I'm making that distinction because I am. I don't doubt the value of discerning between good and evil (remembering that the word "evil" carries no explicit moral connotation). Some people don't get that far. Understanding what an EVIL is and what a GOOD is is fine, though even that much takes the refining fire of God to perfect.
Can you name me one event, or situation, or condition that actually IS both Good and Evil? Or one that produces both good and evil? Or requires both good and evil? Scripture seems to me full of them, and so does life. These are waters too deep for minors. Minors want things cut and dried.
lareli:
--- Quote from: Dave in Tenn on March 15, 2018, 02:50:58 PM ---It looks like I'm making that distinction because I am. I don't doubt the value of discerning between good and evil (remembering that the word "evil" carries no explicit moral connotation). Some people don't get that far. Understanding what an EVIL is and what a GOOD is is fine, though even that much takes the refining fire of God to perfect.
Can you name me one event, or situation, or condition that actually IS both Good and Evil? Or one that produces both good and evil? Or requires both good and evil? Scripture seems to me full of them, and so does life. These are waters too deep for minors. Minors want things cut and dried.
--- End quote ---
Nicely put.
To answer those questions.. the movie ‘Paul, Apostle of Christ’ ;D
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