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Author Topic: God PLANNED To Fail!!!  (Read 3232 times)

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SandyFla

  • Guest
God PLANNED To Fail!!!
« on: March 23, 2006, 05:42:46 PM »

Have you ever heard such an insane thing in all your born days???

I was chatting on another message board with some "free will" diehards and told them that Jesus Christ IS the Savior of the world. The moderator asked where it says that in the Bible (she obviously doesn't read it very much). I gave her 2 verses:

* John 4:42 - "And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD."

and

* I John 4:14 - "And we have seen and do testify that the FATHER SENT THE SON TO BE THE SAVIOUR OF THE WORLD."

I told her that if Jesus IS the Savior of the world, then He must actually SAVE the world. That is God's plan of salvation.

She then came back with the most bizarre insult of God I've ever heard - "He planned to fail!" I told her that any person who makes a plan, and then PLANS to fail, is considered a fool, and may God have mercy on her soul for putting God in such a category. Then she said that I had gone too far!!!

How twisted can the carnal mind get?
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roperfam

  • Guest
God PLANNED To Fail!!!
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2006, 05:45:13 PM »

God planned for man to fail, which apparently is a perfect plan. :D  :D
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love_magnified

  • Guest
God PLANNED To Fail!!!
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2006, 05:53:32 PM »

Bingo. False doctrine makes fools of otherwise intelligent people.
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ciy

  • Guest
God PLANNED To Fail!!!
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2006, 06:13:51 PM »

Hey I was there for a long time.  It is strong delusion.  It causes a lot of excess flesh that will have to be burned out, ripped out, or whatever before they will enter into the Kingdom.  

"I saw the light, I saw the light, no more sorrows no more night.  Praise the Lord I saw the light.'  Or something like that.
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rvhill

  • Guest
God PLANNED To Fail!!!
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2006, 06:14:39 PM »

How can anyone read Roman 5. A whole chapter no less and believe in eternal hell, is beyond me.

 (Amplified Bible)
Amplified Bible (AMP)

Romans 5
 1THEREFORE, SINCE we are justified ([a]acquitted, declared righteous, and given a right standing with God) through faith, let us [grasp the fact that we] have [the peace of reconciliation to hold and to enjoy] peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One).
    2Through Him also we have [our] access (entrance, introduction) by faith into this grace (state of God's favor) in which we [firmly and safely] stand. And let us rejoice and exult in our hope of experiencing and enjoying the glory of God.

    3Moreover [let us also be full of joy now!] let us exult and triumph in our troubles and rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that pressure and affliction and hardship produce patient and unswerving endurance.

    4And endurance (fortitude) develops maturity of [c]character (approved faith and [d]tried integrity). And character [of this sort] produces [the habit of] [e]joyful and confident hope of eternal salvation.

    5Such hope never disappoints or deludes or shames us, for God's love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit Who has been given to us.

    6While we were yet in weakness [powerless to help ourselves], at the fitting time Christ died for (in behalf of) the ungodly.

    7Now it is an extraordinary thing for one to give his life even for an upright man, though perhaps for a noble and lovable and generous benefactor someone might even dare to die.

    8But God shows and clearly proves His [own] love for us by the fact that while we were still sinners, Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One) died for us.

    9Therefore, since we are now justified ([f]acquitted, made righteous, and brought into right relationship with God) by Christ's blood, how much more [certain is it that] we shall be saved by Him from the indignation and wrath of God.

    10For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, it is much more [certain], now that we are reconciled, that we shall be saved (daily delivered from sin's dominion) through His [[g]resurrection] life.

    11Not only so, but we also rejoice and exultingly glory in God [in His love and perfection] through our Lord Jesus Christ, through Whom we have now received and enjoy [our] reconciliation.(A)

    12Therefore, as sin came into the world through one man, and death as the result of sin, so death spread to all men, [[h]no one being able to stop it or to escape its power] because all men sinned.

    13[To be sure] sin was in the world before ever the Law was given, but sin is not charged to men's account where there is no law [to transgress].

    14Yet death held sway from Adam to Moses [the Lawgiver], even over those who did not themselves transgress [a positive command] as Adam did. Adam was a type (prefigure) of the One Who was to come [in reverse, the former destructive, the Latter saving].(B)

    15But God's free gift is not at all to be compared to the trespass [His grace is out of all proportion to the fall of man]. For if many died through one man's falling away (his lapse, his offense), much more profusely did God's grace and the free gift [that comes] through the undeserved favor of the one Man Jesus Christ abound and overflow to and for [the benefit of] many.

    16Nor is the free gift at all to be compared to the effect of that one [man's] sin. For the sentence [following the trespass] of one [man] brought condemnation, whereas the free gift [following] many transgressions brings justification ([j]an act of righteousness).

    17For if because of one man's trespass (lapse, offense) death reigned through that one, much more surely will those who receive [God's] overflowing grace (unmerited favor) and the free gift of righteousness [putting them into right standing with Himself] reign as kings in life through the one Man Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One).

    18Well then, as one man's trespass [one man's false step and falling away led] to condemnation for all men, so one Man's act of righteousness [leads] to acquittal and right standing with God and life for all men.

    19For just as by one man's disobedience (failing to hear, [k]heedlessness, and carelessness) the many were constituted sinners, so by one Man's obedience the many will be constituted righteous (made acceptable to God, brought into right standing with Him).

    20But then Law came in, [only] to expand and increase the trespass [making it more apparent and exciting opposition]. But where sin increased and abounded, grace (God's unmerited favor) has surpassed it and increased the more and superabounded,

    21So that, [just] as sin has reigned in death, [so] grace (His unearned and undeserved favor) might reign also through righteousness (right standing with God) which issues in eternal life through Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One) our Lord.
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Mickyd

  • Guest
God PLANNED To Fail!!!
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2006, 06:18:02 PM »

Here are afew more verses you can smack um with...

"For the CREATURE was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the CREATURE ITSELF also SHALL BE DELIVERED from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the WHOLE CREATION groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body." Rom 8:20-23

"Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that CHRIST JESUS CAME INTO THE WORLD TO SAVE SINNERS; of whom I am chief." 1 Tim 1:13-15

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; WHO WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." 1 Tim 2:3-6

"This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, WHO IS THE SAVIOR OF ALL MEN, SPECIALLY OF THOSE WHO BELIEVE. These things command and teach." 1 Tim 4:9-11
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ciy

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God PLANNED To Fail!!!
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2006, 06:37:47 PM »

RV especially Romans 5:12-21 which says several times that through one all sin and through one all are saved.
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orion77

  • Guest
God PLANNED To Fail!!!
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2006, 06:48:14 PM »

God gave us a great example of His love through us becoming parents and raising children.  Which one of us, fathers or mothers, ever condemn one of our own children to burn in hell forever?  So, how can they turn God into a monster!  Never ceases to amaze me.  The love of God and love for ones neighbor is what it is all about, nothing more and nothing less.

God Bless,

Gary
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jerry cabral

  • Guest
take the fall
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2006, 10:15:52 PM »

Planing to fail, and taking the fall or two different things.  The fall and fire that our Lord took, from the beginning.  To truly just begin to know what makes Him worthy like John said he wasnt even worthy to untie his shoe and that was before the birth to the Blessed Mother Mary.  Such negativity from the children of man and men.  A victorous King, yea what a failure.  Seek out of the Box, or rather flesh.
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zander

  • Guest
God PLANNED To Fail!!!
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2006, 11:15:10 AM »

Yup, been there Sandy.  I got kicked out of a forum for the same thing. The anger in their posts was quite shocking.  But drove home even further the nail in the church's coffin.
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SandyFla

  • Guest
God PLANNED To Fail!!!
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2006, 01:34:39 PM »

Quote from: rvhill
How can anyone read Roman 5. A whole chapter no less and believe in eternal hell, is beyond me.


They believe it is written to Christians--only those who believe. Sadly, the rest of the world supposedly are not included.  :(
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SandyFla

  • Guest
God PLANNED To Fail!!!
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2006, 01:42:25 PM »

Quote from: Mickyd
Here are afew more verses you can smack um with...

"For the CREATURE was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, Because the CREATURE ITSELF also SHALL BE DELIVERED from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the WHOLE CREATION groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body." Rom 8:20-23

"Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that CHRIST JESUS CAME INTO THE WORLD TO SAVE SINNERS; of whom I am chief." 1 Tim 1:13-15

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; WHO WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time." 1 Tim 2:3-6

"This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptation. For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, WHO IS THE SAVIOR OF ALL MEN, SPECIALLY OF THOSE WHO BELIEVE. These things command and teach." 1 Tim 4:9-11


Excellent verses, Mickyd, but as in my post above, sadly, they believe that only refers to Christians.

I even brought up Colossians 1:20 that says: "And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him TO RECONCILE ALL THINGS UNTO HIMSELF; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven."

They said that was written to Christians, so the "all things" REALLY means "all believers." I pointed out to them that "all things" actually means "all things." That's hardly rocket science; a 2-year-old can tell you what "all things" means.

Throughout the discussion, I backed up everything with Scripture; they gave me only Christian talking points. Yet, they had the nerve to say my argument is not with them but with God! HUH???   :shock:

Sandy
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