Greetings

[Al]

My name is Al, I am new to this forum. I found Mr. Ray's website while searching for truth And indeed it has been a complete revelation to me. I thank the Father for leading me here.

I just wanted to ask one question if someone can help me understand.  2Thes 2:6-7 speaks of a restrainer. Can anyone one tell me who or what it is? I now believe what Mr. Ray said that the man of sin is me.  But who is doing the restraining?

Thank you all very much

Al

[Dennis Vogel]

Hi Al. Welcome to the forum.

[ML]

Welcome Al! Enjoy your stay here.

[Dave in Tenn]

Good to meet you, Al.

I can't locate a particular quote directly on this passage, but try this link:  http://bible-truths.com/lake14.html

An excerpt:

BEFORE THE DAY OF THE LORD CAN COME TO YOU

Here then is what must be accomplished in your life before you die:

    "Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfill all the good pleasure of His goodness, and the work of faith with power: THAT the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ may be GLORIFIED IN YOU [IN YOU], and YE IN HIM, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ" (II Thes. 1:11-12)!!

How then does our Apostle Paul tell us this MUST be accomplished? What must happen? What must we do? Or rather what must Jesus do IN US? Here is the Scriptural answer:

    "Now we beseech YOU, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him.

    That ye be not soon shaken in mind or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that THE DAY OF CHRIST [The Day of the Lord] is at hand [FOR YOU...].

    Let no man deceive YOU by any means: for that day shall not come [TO YOU...] except there come a FALLING AWAY FIRST [BY YOU...], and the man of sin be revealed the son of perdition [IN YOU...TO YOU...]; Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped [IN YOU...]; so that he as God sits in the temple of God ['which temple YE ARE' II Cor. 6:16] showing himself that HE IS [YOU ARE / I AM] a god

    Remember ye not, that when I was yet with YOU, I told YOU these things?

    And now ye know what withholds [is restraining, is detaining—'the falling away FIRST'] that he ['the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition'—YOU...] might be revealed in his time [in YOU and TO YOU—individually, not collectively] in his time ['his {particular} time']—FOR YOU and FOR ME and for ALL BELIEVERS IN ALL GENERATIONS UNTIL JESUS COMES TO US ALL, COLLECTIVELY, AS THE MANIFEST SONS OF GOD]."

Long before Jesus can have a COMPANY of manifest SONS and DAUGHTERS of God, there has to be individual begettals by the Holy Spirit of God in chosen individuals in every generation leading up to the coming of the Lord at the end of this age.

    "For the mystery [secret, hidden truth] of iniquity [lawlessness] does already work ['is inwardly working' The Emphasized New Testament: A New Translation (J. B. Rotherham)]: only he who now lets will let ['only he who restrains will do so'], until he be taken out of the way.

    And then shall that Wicked [Lawless One] be revealed IN [IN YOU] and TO YOU, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit [breath] of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming;

    Even him [not original], whose coming [the man of sin called son of perdition IN YOU] is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders" (II Thes. 2:1-9).



---------------

Ask yourself what is being "restrained".  When you answer that, it may become apparent who or what is doing the "restraining".

 

[virginiabm]

Hi Al, welcome to the forum. May God bless you with knowledge, understanding and wisdom, as we all are seeking.

[Wanda]

Welcome to BTF Al☺

Others might have a different view, but this is my understanding to your question, after studying  Rays teachings.

All the days of our fleshly existence  we are fighting against these powers the apostle Paul spoke of, and none which we have power over, in and of ourselves.

Ephesians 6:12

12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

Corinthians 10:4-5

4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.

Ephesians 6:10-11:

' Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes."

[Al]

Thank you all for your warm welcome. Indeed, it is a great feeling to be in a place where people are seeking God's truth and are willing to share what Father have revealed to them. I know that unless God opens my eyes and ears I will not understand.  But I do want to thank you all for your dedicated work to shout the truth about our Merciful God that will save everyone of His childreen in due time.

Dave, you wrote: "Ask yourself what is being "restrained".  When you answer that, it may become apparent who or what is doing the "restraining".

Please forgive me if I am wrong and blind!  - I think what is/was being restrained in me was the knowledge/understanding that the man of sin is not someone outside of me. That the man of sin (me) is/was sitting in God's Temple (which Temple I am)  - and that the falling away is part of the process to be able to see the true beast that I am.  However, someone or something is/was doing the restraining so that I could not see that truth -until he is taken out of the way.  I was taught it was the Holy Spirit.  But I don't know

2 Thessalonians 2:7 (NKJV)  For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. [/u]

Something or someone is restraining so that people cannot see the truth?  Could it be and evil spirit from the Lord"

Thank you all

Al

[Dave in Tenn]

You are far from blind, Al. 

I just know this.  It wasn't/isn't lawlessness which is being restrained.  It is/was "the mystery (secret) of lawlessness".   And the one that had/has to be taken away was/is me.

Men will continue under this "mystery of lawlessness" operating within until they don't any more.  They will continue to sit on the throne until they are removed from it. 

     

[Wanda]

Thanks Dave and Al,

Dave, Sometimes your understanding helps me rest in my own, and other times you make me look further inward on a matter.☺

[Al]

Thanks, Dave.

That makes sense. I wondered about that phrase "Mystery of lawlessness" .  Lawlessness is pretty obvious - we see it every day and everywhere. All you have to do is turn the news on.  So how can lawlessness be a mystery or a secret unless it appears as something else? - lawlessness that appears as righteousness!! And the words of Jesus just hit me:  Luke 11:35 (NKJV)  Therefore take heed that the light which is in you is not darkness.

I think that is exactly what the religious system is all about - that is what I was/am - the mystery of lawlessness - darkness that appears as light that is within me.

[Dave in Tenn]

Thanks, Dave.

That makes sense. I wondered about that phrase "Mystery of lawlessness" .  Lawlessness is pretty obvious - we see it every day and everywhere. All you have to do is turn the news on.  So how can lawlessness be a mystery or a secret unless it appears as something else? - lawlessness that appears as righteousness!! And the words of Jesus just hit me:  Luke 11:35 (NKJV)  Therefore take heed that the light which is in you is not darkness.

I think that is exactly what the religious system is all about - that is what I was/am - the mystery of lawlessness - darkness that appears as light that is within me.

Amen.

[Musterseed]

Welcome to BT Al and may God Bless You
Pamela

[Al]

Thank you Pamela.

[Dave in Tenn]

Just a side note:. I think I have about 8 or 10 translations on esword, ranging from thought-to-thought semi-paraphrases to "literal".  The former invariably got it wrong, and the latter were so wonky that they barely made sense in English. 

It's as if the translators themselves can't see the truth of this scripture within "believers" so they don't know how to translate. 

Paul saw it, though.  That's why he could "boast" of his religious credentials--including his blamelessness according to the law--yet know he was chief of sinners--at the same time.

[yello62]

welcome, al.

[Joel]

Welcome Al, glad you are here.

Joel

[Rhys 🕊]

Welcome to the forum Al

Rhys

[Al]

Thank you all

[indianabob]

Welcome Al,

Glad you are with us.
Keep the questions and your comments coming.
The challenge is welcome and we love to share.

Indiana Bob