bible-truths.com/forums

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Forum related how to's?  Post your questions to the membership.


.

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 [10] 11 12 13 14 15   Go Down

Author Topic: End Time Prophecies  (Read 11078 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Musterseed

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 435
  • God is Love
Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #180 on: December 13, 2018, 06:08:53 PM »

Maybe this will help Porter, I just finished reading it .
From one of Rays emails posted by Arc.   # 108 Strange Visit

God frames evil, you know what it is when you put a frame around something. You know,
Frame it. He frames evil so it won’t go totally out of control. What appears to be totally out of control today in the world, is actually framed. God knows how far it’s going , nothing is out of control.
I know that God, at the flick of a switch can expand that frame at anytime if I get to sure of myself. Yet, He is saying,,Quote “ You see, you’ve only experienced life from your perspective.
And that’s not enough. Now, if you’re going to be a king and rule the world under Christ,
you’ve got to have a broader perspective of everything and everybody.”

This post was about suffering. I agree with you about this being a parable for the elect,
the few chosen . Is not the whole bible ia giant parable as Ray said, for the admonition of
the called and chosen, or am I not understanding correctly. It is Spiritually decerned by
those whom God chooses to be reigning with Him , yes?


Those are awesome scriptures Porter.

1Corth. 2:9
But as it is written, eye has not seen, nor ear heard, nor have entered into the heart
of man. The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.

Eventually, everybody will love Him.    In Christ, Pamela






Logged
" No man can come to me,except the Father draw him"
                                   (John 6: 44)

Johnny70

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 42
Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #181 on: December 13, 2018, 10:09:02 PM »

Hi Porter,
You seem to be on to something in part Porter - the days are shortened for the sake of the elect. Is this the meaning suggested here - saying only the elect - that the days are shortened for and not any other none elect persons? You say that this could be "an end to MY TRIBULATION". Interesting view of these texts. Pamela, is right they are awesome scriptures.

John
« Last Edit: December 13, 2018, 10:11:54 PM by Johnny70 »
Logged

Dave in Tenn

  • Administrator
  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4091
    • FaceBook David Sanderson
Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #182 on: December 13, 2018, 10:49:07 PM »


Please forgive the incoming wall of text.

This is where I believe I have seen these scriptures, Dave. There seems to be a deep meaning revealed? What do you think?

Matthew 24:21-22 Modern English Version (MEV)
21 For then will be great tribulation, such as has not happened since the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever shall be.
22 Unless those days were shortened, no one would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.
Mark 13:19-20 Modern English Version (MEV)
19 For in those days there will be distress as has not been from the beginning of the creation which God created to this time, nor ever shall be.
20 “Except the Lord shortened the days, no flesh would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days.

Remembering Christ's words are spirit, I can't help but to think that this is a parable of the "few chosen".

Joh_16:33  These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

1Th 3:3  That no man should be moved by these afflictions: for yourselves know that we are appointed thereunto.
1Th 3:4  For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know. 

If I was an Elect, how merciful of Him would it be if He shortened the days of MY "great tribulation"? I believe the tribulation of the Saints is related to judgment, because it teaches Godly character. Judgment through tribulation is training.

Rom 5:3  And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
Rom 5:4  And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

Some would say it's always been this bad, and even worse at other times in history, but when God opens your eyes, it's not only to spiritual truth and it becomes impossible to doubt that the decay of morality is at an all time high, as well as declining rapidly. I can see an escalation of decline as a daily norm at this point and conditions in the world are like a run away train   with no hope of rescue, but seeing Gods plan at work is the hope of assured rescue.
I can attest to this.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the birth pains Jesus talks about.

Mar 13:8  because nation will rise up in arms against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be earthquakes and famines in various places. These things are only the beginning of the birth pains.

1Th 5:3  When people say, "There is peace and security," destruction will strike them as suddenly as labor pains come to a pregnant woman, and they will not be able to escape.

Joh 16:21  When a woman is in labor she has pain, because her time has come. Yet when she has given birth to her child, she doesn't remember the agony anymore because of the joy of having brought a human being into the world. 



There is nothing new under the sun. Disasters and bad behavior have always been with us.

I like this guy's take on natural disasters despite the fact he doesn't understand that ultimately all is of God. I mean, we are where we are because of God right?

Anyhow, here's a link and a couple points that he made which got me thinking. Tell me what you think.

https://www.iflscience.com/environment/are-natural-disasters-rise/

Potentially hazardous events do not need to end in a disaster. Disasters occur because of the intersection of hazard with exposed people and assets that are vulnerable to the hazard. They are characterised by a lack of resilience and poor capacity to cope and respond in the affected area. Without vulnerability there can be no disaster.

For me, disasters are a social construct and are about people. I make no apologies for taking such an anthropocentric view.

The big question is does this trend represent a statistical change in the physical occurrence of natural disasters or an increasingly vulnerable global population (or both)?

--------------------

Are people really getting worse? Or is there just more people? If torturing someone is one of the worst things you can do, well then that has been around for thousands of years. Sad I know, but true.

I'm pretty sure your Scriptural quotes are parables also. A woman giving birth is often used in Scripture to represent a Church birthing like children.

Rom 8:19  For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20  For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Rom 8:21  Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom 8:22  For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

It's always about the "many called" or the "few chosen" and depending on which you are or what you believe, your "mother" will either be the bondmaid or freewoman.

Gal 4:22  For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
Gal 4:23  But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
Gal 4:24  Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
Gal 4:25  For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
Gal 4:26  But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Gal 4:27  For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children (many called) than she which hath an husband (few chosen).

Earthquakes, famines, disasters, nations and kingdoms fighting wars, these things have always been with us in a literal sense, so I'm not so sure that these words of Christ and His Apostles are teaching us about literal things. These "events" have got to be happening in the realm or heaven of my heart and mind.

It feels like a literal war sometimes where everything I was is crumbling and falling apart and I'm just screaming NO, STOP IT LEAVE ME ALONE! I'm such a terrible sinner. Who will save me?

Rom 7:23  But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24  O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Rev 12:7  And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8  And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

Sorry for going on like this, but spiritually speaking, it's been rough. I don't know ( I really don't) if God is saving me, but if He is then Ray wasn't lying when he said it would be the hardest thing I will ever do. This on top of some of the most disgusting physical ailments I must endure, makes me wish I were dead.

One thing I think about a lot is that if He is not saving me at this time and I find myself in the resurrection to judgment, what could I possibly say? Talk about being between a rock and a hard place. I would have no excuse.

Sorry for the wall of text and going off topic a bit there, but it seemed like what I said was related to "end times prophecies" and what I perceive to be a major upheaval in my life, physically and possibly spiritually. Maybe I'm looking for some confirmation or even a little encouragement, I don't know. My house built on sand in the wilderness is falling greatly and I can't say I like it. Feels like the end times for sure lol.

You sure saved me a lot of typing.  How's that?
Logged
Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Wanda

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 496
  • I leave with you my peace
Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #183 on: December 14, 2018, 03:30:31 AM »

Hi Wanda,

We have similar understanding.
O. K. but after the great war who will remain alive and mortal to be governed?
Will there be a remnant?
I'm sure that the world's banks will be kaput and their leaders removed,
but if all the means of business and production of food is gone how will people survive?

Inquiring minds would like to know...

If I'm understanding Isaiah 65:17-25 there will be people alive when and after Jesus returns Bob. I don't see an instant change into perfection as some might, but an ongoing process. I used to wonder why Satan was being confined if no one was alive to temp and deceive.

As for food, how do you feel about manna☺
Seriously, I really haven't ever given that much thought.
Logged
I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

indianabob

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1718
Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #184 on: December 14, 2018, 03:08:56 PM »

Hi Wanda,

All throughout the scriptures in every circumstance or catastrophe God said a remnant was reserved. Sometimes 7000, sometimes 8 souls, but God leaves a mortal witness to His miracles.  :)

Indiana Bob
Logged

Wanda

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 496
  • I leave with you my peace
Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #185 on: December 14, 2018, 03:33:45 PM »


Quote
Please forgive the incoming wall of text.

I very much enjoyed your post Porter.

I 've endured great tribulation in my life and at times I felt I was bordering on the state of insanity, but by the mercy and purpose of God's will for me, by cutting those days short I was spared that horror.

I can now say I'm blessed to have experienced such tribulation because on the other side of it I was given so much more. I don't know the tribulation that yet awaits me, but I feel confident I will survive it, through life or death.

Logged
I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

Dennis Vogel

  • Administrator
  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2888
Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #186 on: December 15, 2018, 12:16:06 AM »

Hi Wanda,

We have similar understanding.
O. K. but after the great war who will remain alive and mortal to be governed?
Will there be a remnant?
I'm sure that the world's banks will be kaput and their leaders removed,
but if all the means of business and production of food is gone how will people survive?

Inquiring minds would like to know...

If I'm understanding Isaiah 65:17-25 there will be people alive when and after Jesus returns Bob. I don't see an instant change into perfection as some might, but an ongoing process. I used to wonder why Satan was being confined if no one was alive to temp and deceive.

As for food, how do you feel about manna☺
Seriously, I really haven't ever given that much thought.

Wanda is correct.

1Co 15:25  For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

This proves those remaining are not instantly changed into perfection. Else Christ would have to reign just for an instant.
Logged

Wanda

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 496
  • I leave with you my peace
Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #187 on: December 15, 2018, 03:17:47 PM »

Quote
1Co 15:25  For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

This proves those remaining are not instantly changed into perfection. Else Christ would have to reign just for an instant.

It's because of this scriptural truth,  I must question the timeline many hold fast to on the second resurrection.  From verse 12 which is after this great battle, where God devours them,  we can see the dead standing before God for judgement. If this is the order of things to come then I must contend the second resurrection occurs at the end of the thousand years, otherwise I am left with scriptural contradictions.

Rev 20 KJV

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Now he has truly conquered all of his enemies.

1 Cor
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

In addition, if the resurrection happened at the  beginning of the next age, it really makes no sense, to me anyway, why God would let Saten loose to temp those he had resurrected,  judged and made Righteous at the white thrown.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2018, 05:44:26 PM by Wanda »
Logged
I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

Dennis Vogel

  • Administrator
  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2888
Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #188 on: December 15, 2018, 03:30:45 PM »

Rev 20:5  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

This verse is spurious and does not belong in the scriptures.

https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,6638.msg53239.html#msg53239
Logged

Wanda

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 496
  • I leave with you my peace
Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #189 on: December 15, 2018, 05:10:58 PM »

Rev 20:5  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

This verse is spurious and does not belong in the scriptures.

https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,6638.msg53239.html#msg53239

Yes, and that's precisely why I didn't include it.
Logged
I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

Johnny70

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 42
Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #190 on: December 15, 2018, 05:55:53 PM »

Hi Dennis,
If vs 5 of Revelation Twenty is not part of the Bible then does not vs 6 say that "Blessed and holy is he that has a part in the FIRST RESURRECTION: on such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of Christ, AND SHALL REIGN WITH HIM A THOUSAND YEARS.

From verse SIX ALONE we can see that the first resurrection of the dead is before the thousand years, which is at the Second Coming of Jesus.

I Thess 4:16 - " For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and the trump of GOD: and the dead in Christ will rise FIRST" 17)"then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." Does this not complete the list of those that are included as the elect in the FIRST RESURRECTION?


So it seems that there is not any other time space left - other than the SECOND resurrection happening AFTER THE THOUSAND YEARS WERE FINISHED.

VS SIX backs up verse FIVE!

John
« Last Edit: December 15, 2018, 09:34:39 PM by Johnny70 »
Logged

Porter

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 146
Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #191 on: December 15, 2018, 09:16:56 PM »

Hi Porter,
You seem to be on to something in part Porter - the days are shortened for the sake of the elect. Is this the meaning suggested here - saying only the elect - that the days are shortened for and not any other none elect persons? You say that this could be "an end to MY TRIBULATION". Interesting view of these texts. Pamela, is right they are awesome scriptures.

John

Hi John, I can't say I completely understand it, but I do know that tribulation (for the Elect) ends at Christs advent and wrath (for the non-elect) also begins at Christs advent.

Mat 24:29  Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31  And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

How it relates to the end of the world and "wholesale DEATH" (as Ray put it) is still a mystery to me.

Like I said, I wrote that for confirmation and or correction from others in case I was totally off.
Logged
Sometimes when I close my eye's, I can't see.

Johnny70

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 42
Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #192 on: December 15, 2018, 10:07:04 PM »

Hi Porter,
This is an interesting subject. The statement by Jesus that says, " NIV If those days have not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened." I believe that Ray Smith taught that statement meant - world conditions, The Day of the Lord and all events were to be cut short for all peoples not just the elect. This would make it possible for a small group of humans to be on this planet during a thousand year period of time when Christ would rule on this earth - Rev 19:15. I believe this is the teaching here.

John
Logged

John from Kentucky

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 903
Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #193 on: December 16, 2018, 12:24:34 AM »

Rev 20:5  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

This verse is spurious and does not belong in the scriptures.

https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,6638.msg53239.html#msg53239

Dennis,
I think we need to reconsider what we call spurious Scriptures.

After all, we do not have the original written writings of any Scriptures.
They are all copies of copies.  The oldest copies of the Scriptures are about 300 years after Jesus's death.  The present government of the United States has not existed for 300 years.
Therefore, you cannot call any verse spurious, if you cannot compare it against the original monograph.

The verse in Revelation makes sense if you make it a parenthetical statement, which I believe the CLV translators did.  The Greek manuscripts we have did not use parentheses or other major punctuation.
Logged

Wanda

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 496
  • I leave with you my peace
Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #194 on: December 16, 2018, 01:10:27 AM »

Rev 20:5  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

This verse is spurious and does not belong in the scriptures.

https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,6638.msg53239.html#msg53239

OOPS, sorry Dennis, without realizing it I did allude to the scripture even though I didn't  include it,  but honestly, with or without Rev 20:5  I don't see any way around 2 seperate and distinct resurrections.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2018, 03:22:49 AM by Wanda »
Logged
I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

Dennis Vogel

  • Administrator
  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2888
Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #195 on: December 16, 2018, 11:05:07 AM »

Rev 20:5  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

This verse is spurious and does not belong in the scriptures.

https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,6638.msg53239.html#msg53239

Dennis,
I think we need to reconsider what we call spurious Scriptures.

After all, we do not have the original written writings of any Scriptures.
They are all copies of copies.  The oldest copies of the Scriptures are about 300 years after Jesus's death.  The present government of the United States has not existed for 300 years.
Therefore, you cannot call any verse spurious, if you cannot compare it against the original monograph.

The verse in Revelation makes sense if you make it a parenthetical statement, which I believe the CLV translators did.  The Greek manuscripts we have did not use parentheses or other major punctuation.

I know these are here for a reason John - But that's the best I can do

Rev 22:18  For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:


Rev 22:19  And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Logged

Wanda

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 496
  • I leave with you my peace
Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #196 on: January 01, 2019, 08:21:29 PM »

Isa 1:7  Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers.

I can feel the heat.

We might not be on the same thought with this Scripture Dennis, but if not I'm sure you'll correct me.

I'm seeing a connection to the insurmountable problems pertaining to the huge numbers that have migrated to many parts of Europe, and the same is happening in the US and Canada.

I'm sure many are aware of the huge numbers that came into Mexico recently, but not many know that thousands of these people from Central America that are in Mexico, are now being bused in to the US by Homeland Security and Ice enforcement daily. They are being dropped of to points all over the US even though it's not being reported in the media.

It  has been reported there are 12,000 more on the way to the Mexican border,  expected to arrive this month. If this continues,  what we see happening in Europe will become our reality.  Coming conditions can and will most likely, get  progressively worse as a result.
Logged
I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

Dave in Tenn

  • Administrator
  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4091
    • FaceBook David Sanderson
Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #197 on: January 01, 2019, 09:03:05 PM »

On the other hand, if I had been a native "new worlder" with a bible, I might have assumed this prophecy was referring to me and my world.  It was certainly more literally "fulfilled" in both north, south, and central america. 

I'm curious how you "know" something "even though it's not being reported in the media", but both question and answer may take this thread into territory Dennis did not desire.
Logged
Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Wanda

  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 496
  • I leave with you my peace
Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #198 on: January 01, 2019, 09:13:30 PM »

You make a good point Dave.

I can answer without breaking any rules. I have seen videos from independent reporters, who are filming this happening all over the US daily. I've seen the agency's I mentioned bringing them in and the buses being unloaded. These videos are being posted everyday on youtube.
Logged
I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

Dave in Tenn

  • Administrator
  • Bible-Truths Forum Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4091
    • FaceBook David Sanderson
Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #199 on: January 01, 2019, 09:46:54 PM »

I'd suggest that without context and corroboration, you don't know what you're seeing, even if the video is accurate.  I find it impossible to believe in this climate that "media" is not reporting things.

Regardless, my main point is that the interpretation of at least some "prophecies" are subjective to experience.  Beyond that, understanding has to be lived.  It cannot be taught.  The "signs of the times" have either happened to someone or they haven't.  And that too is prophesied.  Each and every one of us is "in there" somewhere.   
Logged
Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 [10] 11 12 13 14 15   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.074 seconds with 27 queries.