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Author Topic: End Time Prophecies  (Read 8222 times)

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Dennis Vogel

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Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #80 on: November 12, 2018, 08:14:34 PM »

Jer 51:20  Thou art my battle axe and weapons of war: for with thee will I break in pieces the nations, and with thee will I destroy kingdoms;
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #81 on: November 12, 2018, 09:10:36 PM »

...
But God does not do evil.  It is offensive to Him.  That is why Satan was created.  Satan is the direct causal agent and doer of evil acts.

God did not burn those poor people to death in their vehicles in the California fires.

It was Satan who did the evil deeds.

God limits what Satan does or it would have been much worse.
...

Just making sure everyone understands that I agree with John. God uses some as tools. But He cannot sin.
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yello62

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Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #82 on: November 12, 2018, 10:04:25 PM »

Dennis, no one has said that God sins.  In fact, I thought I indicated that it is impossible for God to sin.  It is not fathomable that He can sin.  But sinning, and causing calamitous events are different things.

Please allow me to be clear as to what i believe, God can in no way sin, it is am impossibility of fact!
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Nothing, consequently, is now condemnation to those in Christ Jesus. Not according to flesh are they walking, but according to spirit, for the spirit's law of life in Christ Jesus frees you from the law of sin and death.

Musterseed

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Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #83 on: November 12, 2018, 10:13:02 PM »

From LOF 11 Origin of sin, all caps Ray’s.
JOB 26
But the crooked serpent God formed by His hand ,,,,AT ARMS LENGTH, thus indicating
it was something necessary but not of His HEART AND SPIRIT.

Isaiah 54:17
Behold I have created the smith that blows the coals in the fire and that brings
forth an instrument for His work and I have created the waster to destroy.

Who’s role is it to destroy the flesh of man so that the spirit may be saved?
I have created the waster to destroy.

Email, Why would God create evil
As God does not DIRECTLY try anyone, He had to create adversaries to do this dirty work,
and so God created His own adversary, Satan the devil. There are lesser adversaries in the form of demons.

It is the crooked serpent Satan who goes to and fro and up and down in the earth! God created
Satan for this purpose.

I also agree with Dennis and John. I remember Ray teaching that God cannot look upon evil.
In Christ, Pamela
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yello62

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Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #84 on: November 12, 2018, 10:26:20 PM »

Are my posts getting missed?  I never said that God sins.  And Pamela, I agree 100% that God created the adversary for the express purpose of the work that he does.  In fact, no adversary, no Christ.  it was part of the job of the adversary to reveal Christ. 
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Nothing, consequently, is now condemnation to those in Christ Jesus. Not according to flesh are they walking, but according to spirit, for the spirit's law of life in Christ Jesus frees you from the law of sin and death.

Dennis Vogel

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Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #85 on: November 13, 2018, 05:34:26 AM »

Are my posts getting missed?  I never said that God sins.  And Pamela, I agree 100% that God created the adversary for the express purpose of the work that he does.  In fact, no adversary, no Christ.  it was part of the job of the adversary to reveal Christ.

I did not have you in mind at all when I made that post. I realized I may have made it sound like I was criticizing John and wanted to make sure no one thought that. That's all.
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yello62

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Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #86 on: November 13, 2018, 09:19:48 AM »

i misunderstood, i apologize.
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Nothing, consequently, is now condemnation to those in Christ Jesus. Not according to flesh are they walking, but according to spirit, for the spirit's law of life in Christ Jesus frees you from the law of sin and death.

Wanda

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Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #87 on: November 13, 2018, 05:22:22 PM »

Dean,

Your narrative regarding Gods wrath being directed on those today,  trying to enforce land boundaries on Israel, is based on the old covenant thinking.

The New Jerusalem is NOT the Old Jerusalem restored. It is a new location. And its temple is our body.

The prophet tells us God's reasons for leaving Jerusalem in Jer. 7:9-11,

(9) Will you steal, murder, and commit adultery, and swear falsely, and offer sacrifices to Baal, and walk after other gods that you have not known, (10) then come and stand before Me in this house, which is called by My name, and say, 'We are delivered!'--that you may do all these abominations? (11) Has this house, which is called by My name, become a den of robbers in your sight?

This same indictment came upon the second temple, when Jesus cast out the bankers from the temple (Matt. 21:12, 13). In applying that wording to the second temple, Jesus was prophesying its destruction as in the days of Jeremiah.

Back in the days of Joshua, Israel set up the Ark of the Covenant in a town of Ephraim called Shiloh (Joshua 18:1). Jeremiah says in 7:12,

"But go now to My place which was in Shiloh, where I made My name dwell at the first, and see what I did to it because of the wickedness of My people Israel."

Three or four centuries later, God found fault with Jerusalem in the same manner as with Shiloh, according to Jeremiah. The temple in Jerusalem had become "a den of robbers" (i.e., a hideout and refuge from the law).

"(14) Therefore, I will do to the house which is called by Name, in which you trust, and to the place which I gave you and your fathers, as I did to Shiloh. (15) And I will cast you out of My sight, as I have cast out all your brothers, all the offspring of Ephraim."

Ezekiel 10:4says "the glory of God went up from the cherub to the threshold of the temple." In verse 19 the glory of His presence moved to the east gate. Finally in 11:23,

"And the glory of the Lord went up from the midst of the city and stood over the mountain which is east of the city."

Jesus came as the representative of the glory of God. After His death and resurrection, He ascended to heaven on the Mount of Olives Acts 1:12

This completed God's exodus from Jerusalem, now that Jesus had finished His ministry there. The glory of God had to ascend first in order to return to the new Temple ten days later on the day of Pentecost. This new Temple is made of "living stones" (1 Peter 2:5). Paul says in 1 Cor. 3:16,

"Do you not know that you are a temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?"

When God left Shiloh, He never returned. God then left Jerusalem and treated that city "as I did to Shiloh." Since the fulfillment of Pentecost in Acts 2:1, He has chosen to indwell human flesh as His Temple. Each of us is a temple individually, but speaking corporately, we are each just one living stone in a collective Temple Eph. 2:21

If I'm misunderstanding your narrative, please correct me, otherwise I'm confused. Why is God protecting the interests of modern day Israel?







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AwesomeSavior

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Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #88 on: November 13, 2018, 09:03:38 PM »

Hi Wanda:

I am well aware that the Jews living in Israel are not spiritual Jews, and are not heirs of the salvation of Jesus [until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in (Luke 21:24 and Romans 11:25)]. I know that these promises are only for The Elect. I know.

That being said... I will quote numerous Scriptures from the book of Romans, mostly from chapter 11, but also from chapter 9, and a few from the Old Testament. They won't be in perfect chronological order. See if these Scriptures show that God still treasures the NATURAL Jews; I am using all these Scriptures to answer your concerns. I will start with Romans chapter nine, and I will use capital letters for emphasis.

"I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost. That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. For I could wish that MYSELF WERE ACCURSED from Christ for my BRETHREN, my kinsmen according to the FLESH: Who ARE ISRAELITES; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose ARE the FATHERS, and of whom as concerning the FLESH Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen. (Romans 9:1-5)

"I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I ALSO am an ISRAELITE, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew..." (Romans 11:1-2). There is a double witness that God has NOT cast them away.

"I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for TO PROVOKE THEM TO JEALOUSY" (Romans 11:11).

"Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how MUCH MORE their FULNESS?" (Romans 11:12)

"For if the casting away of them BE THE RECONCILING OF THE WORLD, what shall THE RECEIVING OF THEM BE, but life from the dead?" (Romans 11:15)

"BOAST NOT against the branches...(Romans 11:18)

"Thou will say then, The (natural) branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well, because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. BE NOT HIGHMINDED, BUT FEAR: For if God spared not the NATURAL BRANCHES, take heed lest he also not spare thee" (Romans 11:19-21).  "And if some of the (natural) branches be broken off, and THOU, being a WILD olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;" (Romans 11:17). " For if THOU wert cut out of the olive tree which is WILD by nature, and wert grafted CONTRARY TO NATURE into a good olive tree: HOW MUCH MORE shall these, WHICH BE THE NATURAL BRANCHES, be grafted into THEIR OWN olive tree? (Romans 11:24). Paul made clear who are the wild branches, and who are the natural branches.

"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, LEST YOU SHOULD BE WISE IN YOUR OWN CONCEITS; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles be come in". (Romans 11:25)

"As concerning the GOSPEL, they are ENEMIES for your sakes: but as touching the ELECTION, they are BELOVED for the father's sakes.  For the gifts and calling of God are WITHOUT REPENTANCE" (Romans 11:28-29).

Just to be clear, and to repeat my first sentence... I am well aware that they are not the spiritual heirs of the promises of Jesus, as those promises are for people that God has chosen from each generation, beginning at Pentecost. However, Paul made it clear that they are the NATURAL branches in verses 21 and 24, and we are the WILD branches grafted into the olive tree, in verses 17 and 24. And even though they are enemies as concerning the gospel, they are beloved for the father's sake (the Patriarchs).

The original land grant given to Abraham and HIS SEED is found in Genesis 15:18, and it stretches from the Nile River in the middle of Egypt to the Euphrates River, running through the midst of modern day Iraq. God says He SWARES this land unto them and their seed (Deuteronomy 1:8 and Deuteronomy 6:10).

So, in conclusion, even though the spiritual promises of God are only for The Elect, the NATURAL promises of that land in the Middle East are still in force today, and I can easily prove it because I have been personally keeping track of the headlines regarding America trying to divide that Land, and also before I started keeping track, through research, of attempts made by this country to do this very thing in the past, going back to 1991 and the event known as The Perfect Storm, which was made into a Hollywood movie. I can say and post with confidence when God is going to send another catastrophe upon America, only because God is causing me to watch this situation like a HAWK.

I became very interested when Dennis made this thread, in trying to decipher any signs of end time prophecy. I held off posting for a while, until I saw certain headlines and then went immediately to The Weather Channel's website, and saw Hurricane Michael developing, which I KNEW was going to develop into a monster storm BEFORE it struck the Florida panhandle, and you can go back to my original post on October 8th to see my prediction before that storm struck land.

I don't take these events lightly; they are very sobering, and I very much DREAD what is coming in the near future, if you know what I mean...

The spiritual promises belong only to The Elect; however, the natural land promises... still belong to the Jews of the Middle East, and I am watching the headlines so as to not be caught off guard by any forthcoming disasters, which WILL be coming upon this country.

Dean
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John from Kentucky

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Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #89 on: November 13, 2018, 11:03:31 PM »

None of the Old Testament figures are all that important.  Their stories are only for examples for the Elect.

In Galatians 3:16 we learn Isaac is unimportant.  Jesus is the One Seed and heir of all the Promises.  It is Jesus Who will save all the nation's.  Save everyone.

Later in chapter 3, we learn there are no divisions between Jew or Gentile, Male or Female, Free or Slave, we are all One in Christ Jesus and heir of all the Promises through Jesus.  It is the Elect who are the Israel of God.

The physical is not important.  Only Spiritual Truths matter.

Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit says the LORD GOD Almighty.  Zech.
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AwesomeSavior

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Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #90 on: November 13, 2018, 11:35:09 PM »

Nothing matters until it matters, eh John?
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lareli

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Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #91 on: November 14, 2018, 01:08:24 PM »

Dean I hear what you’re saying about physical Israel not being insignificant or unimportant in Gods plans... the scriptures you provided are helpful.

But I don’t think the US has ever truly attempted to divide the land of Israel. Your source for believing this is the “headlines”. I think that the “headlines” have become a sort of “false prophet” when we take what they say as truth. One of the many uses of “headlines” are to influence how we feel and to influence what we believe to be true. They’re purpose is not always to give us unbiased truth.

In regards to dividing Israel, The US may go on record as saying they support this thing or that thing but has there ever been any real action to back it up? On the contrary what we do see as far as actual deeds done toward Israel, is massive amounts of money going from the US to Israel. Like Billions per year. I did a quick google search of ‘us aid to Israel per year’ and the first link says the US gives Israel something like 10million dollars per day!

No matter which party is in power the money flows. So far as I can tell the US occasionally gives lip service to the world in regards to supporting the land divide but in deed the US is very loyal to Israel.... BUT, I have not spent nearly as much time as you have studying this stuff so I may be totally off base here..

« Last Edit: November 14, 2018, 01:22:00 PM by lareli »
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ZekeSr

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Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #92 on: November 14, 2018, 02:31:29 PM »

I believe we suffer the fate of our own sins, both collectively as a nation and as individuals. As far as the present-day nation of Israel is concerned, America looks to be its only friend at the moment. And as far as the promise to Abrahams seed whose physical descendants were not just the Jews, here are two excerpts from Ray’s “When the Towers Fall” which is well worth reading over again from time to time:

WHEN GENTILES ARE JEWS AND JEWS ARE NOT JEWS
[Is American Part of Prophecy?]
[/b]
Now for one of the most profound scriptural truths you will ever learn; nowhere taught or believed in Christendom. 
According to virtually all Christian teachers and scholars, when prophecy mentions Jerusalem, Judah, or Israel, it is speaking of literal Jerusalem, Judah, or Israel. For them, if "context, context, context" is the god of theological interpretation, then "literal, literal, literal," has got to be their vice-god. If this is true, then when it speaks of "Abraham's seed," it must mean "literal" bloodline descendants of Abraham, correct? No, NOT correct! *

*The above emphasis was mine.... All the emphasis below is Ray's

According to God, are those literal, physical Jews of the racial line of Abraham who are circumcised in the flesh, "Jews." NO, former pagan Gentiles are the TRUE JEWS according to Scripture.

But weren't all the "promises" to Abraham for "HIS SEED? Yes, of course, but the question now is, "Who IS Abraham's seed?"

"Not as though the word of God has taken none effect [God is not contradicting here] . For they are NOT all Israel, which are Israel. Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children, but, In Isaac shall your seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the FLESH, these are NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD: but the children of the PROMISE ARE counted for the seed" (Rom. 9:6-8).

Yes, God intended from the beginning that the TRUE JEW, the SPIRITUAL JEW, the TRUE SEED of Abraham, the TRUE HEIR to the promises was to be the GENTILES!

"And if you [Paul is writing to GENTILE Galatians] be Christ's, then are you Abraham's SEED, and HEIRS according to the PROMISE" (Gal. 3:29).

Mike
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #93 on: November 14, 2018, 04:04:06 PM »

Dan 12:4  But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

We don't know anything for absolute certainty yet. Maybe, Maybe Not.

It seems evident to me that we are in or very close to the end times but I'm always reminded of what someone told me many years ago when I was in the WWCG and they had that "1975 in prophecy" pamphlet saying the end was going to occur in 1975. She was in her 40's when she said: "everyone thinks they are living in the end times." She had just gone thru WWII and they were certain the end was at hand back then.

But part of my motive for starting this topic was to see what everyone else is thinking.

And I know it's been hard for some not to go political. So thank you for that.


Hurricane Michael was really bad but Hurricane Camile in 1969 was much worse. And if you are talking about loss of life then The Great Galveston Storm in 1900 was the worst.



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Wanda

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Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #94 on: November 14, 2018, 05:25:07 PM »

Thanks Dean. I see you have been quiet diligent in your efforts and I can not begin to know the path God leads you, however my views and understanding do differ.

I see the entire story of Israel under Moses and Joshua as an imperfect model of what should come later, for it was done under a covenant that was conditional upon the people’s  keeping their vow in Exodus 19:8. This proved to be an utter failure, as history shows, for that kingdom eventually was destroyed and cast out of the land. God then began to set forth the New Covenant plan that could not fail, and this is what we see happening today.

Though the original plan failed as God intended,  its revelation, laws, and historic patterns prophesied of the new plan that would succeed. For me, it feels wrong to apply the Old Covenant methods of conquest to New Covenant times, because the two covenants each employ a different kind of sword, one physical and the other spiritual.

The Jewish state has never been at rest since its inception in 1948, nor does anyone live securely.

God chose Abraham and his seed to be a blessing to all families of the earth.
Should we not expect the true, godly Jews of Israel today  to be fulfilled by peace, righteousness, and justice as God intended? This is the contrast between the old Jerusalem and the New, between carnal and spiritual, between counterfeit and genuine.

Is a physically circumcised adherent of the Old Covenant  a Jew in the eyes of God, and a true  follower of Jesus Christ, the Mediator of the New Covenant?

As we know, God sees the end from the beginning, and just maybe he has planned something unexpected for the territory given to  Abraham back in Genesis, it does after all belong to God, as all things do.  Or perhaps we should view the territory as spiritual and not physical as Christianity does. The latter would certainly separate us from the world, with all it's deceitful political and religious trappings.






















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Musterseed

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Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #95 on: November 14, 2018, 06:21:06 PM »

Gen.6:5
And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination
of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Luke 17:26
And as it was in the days of Noah, so it also shall be.

“You know the whole thing has so crept up on us that many of us have not seen it coming.
Don’t even see it now. Don’t realize the extent of the perversion and evil in the world. It’s pretty bad”..... Ray

“If you break one of God’s laws , your guilty of all”. L Ray Smith
I agree with ya Mike, our sins have gone to high heaven.

Though God’s ways are sometimes mysterious ,( no kidding Lord)😬 the righteous shall live by His faith while
awaiting salvation. (Habakkuk intro.)

Habakkuk’s complaint is very interesting and the Lords answer says
Look among the nations and see wonder and be astounded. For I am doing
a work in your days that you would not believe if told.
For behold I am raising up the Chaldeans, that bitter and hasty nation
who march through the breadth of the earth to seize
dwellings not their own.

Does in your days mean now in our time ? And who are the Chaldeans? Can someone help me please.
 We are in the middle of a scary windstorm and my I pad only works when it feels like it so I want to post before we lose power or this iPad
quits on me again. ❤️
In Christ, Pamela


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yello62

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Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #96 on: November 14, 2018, 07:03:32 PM »

Dan 12:4  But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

We don't know anything for absolute certainty yet. Maybe, Maybe Not.

It seems evident to me that we are in or very close to the end times but I'm always reminded of what someone told me many years ago when I was in the WWCG and they had that "1975 in prophecy" pamphlet saying the end was going to occur in 1975. She was in her 40's when she said: "everyone thinks they are living in the end times." She had just gone thru WWII and they were certain the end was at hand back then.

But part of my motive for starting this topic was to see what everyone else is thinking.

And I know it's been hard for some not to go political. So thank you for that.


Hurricane Michael was really bad but Hurricane Camile in 1969 was much worse. And if you are talking about loss of life then The Great Galveston Storm in 1900 was the worst.

dennis,

my feeling is also that we are near to Christ's return for many of the reasons given by the scriptures articulated in this thread.  the truth is that, since His ascension, those of us that have been placed in Christ have always been near to Christ's return, as close as our last breath.

tony
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Nothing, consequently, is now condemnation to those in Christ Jesus. Not according to flesh are they walking, but according to spirit, for the spirit's law of life in Christ Jesus frees you from the law of sin and death.

indianabob

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Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #97 on: November 14, 2018, 11:32:48 PM »

Friend Tony,
I used to think that I would like to be alive when our Lord returns, in order to see that event with my own eyes.
But the way things are progressing, the end may be something that no one should desire to see.

As an older and perhaps wiser fellow I have changed my thinking and am contented to let God decide the timing according to His love for me.

Indiana bob




Dan 12:4  But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

We don't know anything for absolute certainty yet. Maybe, Maybe Not.

It seems evident to me that we are in or very close to the end times but I'm always reminded of what someone told me many years ago when I was in the WWCG and they had that "1975 in prophecy" pamphlet saying the end was going to occur in 1975. She was in her 40's when she said: "everyone thinks they are living in the end times." She had just gone thru WWII and they were certain the end was at hand back then.

But part of my motive for starting this topic was to see what everyone else is thinking.

And I know it's been hard for some not to go political. So thank you for that.


Hurricane Michael was really bad but Hurricane Camile in 1969 was much worse. And if you are talking about loss of life then The Great Galveston Storm in 1900 was the worst.

dennis,

my feeling is also that we are near to Christ's return for many of the reasons given by the scriptures articulated in this thread.  the truth is that, since His ascension, those of us that have been placed in Christ have always been near to Christ's return, as close as our last breath.

tony
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ML

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Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #98 on: November 14, 2018, 11:56:05 PM »

Strange how no one has mentioned this verse yet:

Mat 24:14  And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. 

Hab 2:14  For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. 
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John 1
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Doug

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Re: End Time Prophecies
« Reply #99 on: November 15, 2018, 11:31:35 AM »

Hi Dennis,

I think many of us think we are near the end times. Did Ray speak about what to expect in the end times and the time span? Must admit I pray for Christ return but there are many times think it would be much easier to die before having to experience the end times.
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