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Author Topic: Did Ray Change His Teaching On This.  (Read 1160 times)

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Wanda

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Did Ray Change His Teaching On This.
« on: January 07, 2019, 05:06:46 PM »

This is from an email reply from Ray. It's from 2006, so he might have changed his teaching since then. Does anyone know?

Dear Brenda:
Yes, Brenda, your friend is at peace. He is sleeping. That is what God and His Word likens death to--SLEEP.  In judgment, all the wicked and non-believers will be resurrected and taught the truths of God. That is what judgment is--setting all wrongs RIGHT. God's plan is to save the entire human race. He is calling a chosen few now, and judging us now (I Cor. 11:31-32 & I Pet. 4:17, etc.).

The rest will have their judgment in a resurrection of the death to come after Jesus rules a thousand years  on this earth. Read my "Lake of Fire" series for the details of all these things.
God be with you,
Ray

https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,554.msg4296.html#msg4296

 
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Arion

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Re: Did Ray Change His Teaching On This.
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2019, 06:38:09 PM »

Never changed that I'm aware of and addresses this on the front page of the website;

http://bible-truths.com/death.htm
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Wanda

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Re: Did Ray Change His Teaching On This.
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2019, 06:54:49 PM »

Thanks Arion. I see I wasn't clear with my question. My question is about this part of his reply. Maybe I'm misunderstanding his point, about the ressurection to come after Jesus rules a thousand years. Any help is appreciated.

Quote
The rest will have their judgment in a resurrection of the death to come after Jesus rules a thousand years  on this earth. Read my "Lake of Fire" series for the details of all these things.
God be with you,
Ray

« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 07:12:42 PM by Wanda »
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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
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octoberose

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Re: Did Ray Change His Teaching On This.
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2019, 03:57:24 AM »

Hi Wanda , 
  What do you think Ray changed this teaching to?   

  Also, Ray didnít teach that 1,000  year  reign was literal . Thatís right isnít it ?
 
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Did Ray Change His Teaching On This.
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2019, 08:25:26 AM »

Hi Wanda , 
  What do you think Ray changed this teaching to?   

  Also, Ray didnít teach that 1,000  year  reign was literal . Thatís right isnít it ?

He referred her to the LOF series for details.  This was an email replied in comfort, not a "teaching", imo. 
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octoberose

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Re: Did Ray Change His Teaching On This.
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2019, 01:22:49 AM »

But the question is a good  one.  Iíve never had a good grasp on Rays  timeline for how things occur at the end .  What do the moderators believe Ray taught on this?
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Did Ray Change His Teaching On This.
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2019, 11:09:55 AM »

This is from an email reply from Ray. It's from 2006, so he might have changed his teaching since then. Does anyone know?

Dear Brenda:
Yes, Brenda, your friend is at peace. He is sleeping. That is what God and His Word likens death to--SLEEP.  In judgment, all the wicked and non-believers will be resurrected and taught the truths of God. That is what judgment is--setting all wrongs RIGHT. God's plan is to save the entire human race. He is calling a chosen few now, and judging us now (I Cor. 11:31-32 & I Pet. 4:17, etc.).

The rest will have their judgment in a resurrection of the death to come after Jesus rules a thousand years  on this earth. Read my "Lake of Fire" series for the details of all these things.
God be with you,
Ray

https://bible-truths.com/forums/index.php/topic,554.msg4296.html#msg4296

I am glad you asked if Ray "changed his teaching since then" as Ray was always learning and updating his beliefs.

Because this was written in 2006, IMO Ray had not known at that time that this verse was not in the original text and should be ignored.

Rev. 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished

One of Ray's favorite verses:

Isa_26:9  With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.

So does anyone believe that Christ returns but nothing changes for a period of time? Including judgment?

There are verses that imply judgment begins when Christ returns.

Rev 19:11  And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

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Wanda

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Re: Did Ray Change His Teaching On This.
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2019, 02:53:09 PM »

Thank you Dennis, this really does help in my effort to understand. Interesting thing is, I was doing a search for something else, when I found the email.
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Johnny70

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Re: Did Ray Change His Teaching On This.
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2019, 03:14:39 PM »

Hi Dennis,
Ray Smith was correct about the timing of the second resurrection - even if Rev 20:5 is not an original part of the Holy Texts of the Bible - because of verse 6 of Rev 20 indicating the First resurrection occurring at the start of the Thousand Year Period of time. In 1 Corinthians 15:23 King James Version (KJV)  But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.1 Corinthians 15:51-55 King James Version (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

Paul also wrote,"1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 King James Version (KJV) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

According to Paul, "the dead in Christ shall rise first." This is the first resurrection" depicted in Revelation 20:6. Revelation 20:4-6 begins the Thousand Years with the resurrection of the elect - with both the dead first and they that are alive - second in sequence in the FIRST resurrection.

So Paul adds to this further by saying - the true believers (the elect) being "caught up" then he declares immediately after (I Thess 4:16:18) - 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 King James Version (KJV) For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and THEY SHALL NOT ESCAPE.

So the dead raised up occurs after the Thousand Year period of time in the Second Resurrection and the numbers will be staggering, they will in clude all those that are NOT - "caught up" - seeing those that ARE "caught up" will be with Jesus and alive in the First resurrection.

Is my thinking correct here, Dennis - just trying to make sense out of all this.

John


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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Did Ray Change His Teaching On This.
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2019, 03:30:33 PM »

Hi Dennis,
Ray Smith was correct about the timing of the second resurrection - even if Rev 20:5 is not an original part of the Holy Texts of the Bible - because of verse 6 of Rev 20 indicating the First resurrection occurring at the start of the Thousand Year Period of time.

In his email Ray said "after" the thousand years.

"The rest will have their judgment in a resurrection of the death to come after Jesus rules a thousand years  on this earth."
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Johnny70

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Re: Did Ray Change His Teaching On This.
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2019, 03:48:26 PM »

Thank you Dennis for making this clear.
John
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Did Ray Change His Teaching On This.
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2019, 03:57:22 PM »

But is it the resurrection to come "after 1000 years", or the (second) death to come "after 1000 years"?

"The rest will have their judgment in a resurrection of the death to come after Jesus rules a thousand years  on this earth."

"The rest will have their judgment in a resurrection of the death to come after Jesus rules a thousand years  on this earth."

When will judgement have occurred if the result is "the whole world learning righteousness"?  I don't think Ray taught that "the whole world will learn righteousness" at (or because of) Resurrection, but at (and because of) the Second death.

Again, the teaching is in the LOF series.  I wouldn't mine this email for more than it was intended to deliver.   
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Did Ray Change His Teaching On This.
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2019, 06:11:27 PM »

Looking at:

Rev 20:5  But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

I see all my translations have the "thousand years." So I'm changing my opinion and saying Ray was correct in the first place.

But we know the thousand years is symbolic and can mean any length of time.
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Dennis Vogel

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Re: Did Ray Change His Teaching On This.
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2019, 06:38:19 PM »

I removed that verse from the "SPURIOUS PASSAGES OF THE NEW TESTAMENT"
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Wanda

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Re: Did Ray Change His Teaching On This.
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2019, 07:23:24 PM »

I removed that verse from the "SPURIOUS PASSAGES OF THE NEW TESTAMENT"

☺ I knew God would correct this in his time.
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Johnny70

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Re: Did Ray Change His Teaching On This.
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2019, 09:21:46 PM »

Hi Dennis & Wanda,
I like the Complete Jewish Bible translation where they put - (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were over.) in parentheses. Because when you read verse 4,  and then in verse 5 - you read - "This is the first resurrection." This completes verse 4.  In verse 5 - the parenthetical statement is another topic but adds crucial information about the rest of the dead - IMO.

Revelation 20:5 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were over.) This is the first resurrection.
John
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Wanda

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Re: Did Ray Change His Teaching On This.
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2019, 09:29:02 PM »

Thanks John.
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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

Wanda

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Re: Did Ray Change His Teaching On This.
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2019, 10:38:42 PM »


Quote
When will judgement have occurred if the result is "the whole world learning righteousness"?  I don't think Ray taught that "the whole world will learn righteousness" at (or because of) Resurrection, but at (and because of) the Second death.

That is correct Dave.

HADES AND THE SECOND DEATH

https://bible-truths.com/lake16-D5.htm

When Jesus returns to this earth in glory with His holy angels (Matt. 25:31), He will come with great power to JUDGE (Rev. 19:11), and those who oppose Him will be thrown into "a lake of fire" (Verse 20). Satan also is cast into this "lake of fire" (Rev. 20:10), and "death and hell/hades" is cast into this "lake of fire" (Verse 14).

The second death is not a literal death of the physical body--neither for the Elect nor the Wicked. It is a death of the carnal mind, the heart of sin, the nature of sin. Our literal, physical flesh and blood does not die a second time. But all character flaws associated with sin must die:
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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

Johnny70

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Re: Did Ray Change His Teaching On This.
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2019, 03:26:36 PM »

Hi Wanda & Dave,
Great insight as always Wanda - on this subject of - Hades and The Second Death. Rev. 20:14 - distinctly says - "Death and The Grave - were cast into the Lake of Fire - And This is The Second Death". Death and The Grave are enemies of mankind and are to be ultimately destroyed in the Second Death. The PURPOSE of this Lake of Fire is to destroy Death and The Grave - which are conditions - and NOT PERSONS. The intent of the symbolic Lake of Fire is not to burn up people. That is the good news that Ray Smith reports on in his many super good graphic articles on his sight - to set people free of the insane lie about an ever burning Hell Fire. Hats off to Ray Smith, indeed. So then the Second Death by Our Creator's will and design becomes an indispensable friend of man's by destroying mankind's GREATEST ENEMIES! So the Second Death is so much better than the First Death. Just like the Second Adam was so much better than the First Adam. IMO

John
« Last Edit: January 10, 2019, 03:57:05 PM by Johnny70 »
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Wanda

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Re: Did Ray Change His Teaching On This.
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2019, 07:17:25 PM »

Hi John,

This was my understanding, and why I asked the question, even though I didn't make myself clear.  Ray's email made me think I might be misunderstanding what he taught on the subject.  Having Rev. 20:5 taken off the spurious list was an added blessing. ☺
« Last Edit: January 10, 2019, 07:22:28 PM by Wanda »
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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12
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