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Author Topic: Isaiah 57:1  (Read 1591 times)

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Prune Soleiado

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Isaiah 57:1
« on: February 07, 2019, 06:22:44 PM »

Hello God’s Family 👋

I’m facing a problem with all translations made about Isaiah 57:1 because I believe in Ray’s inspired by God council: « PAY ATTENTION TO EVERY WORD ».

Do Strong’s Concordance numbers you can see beside all translated words really correspond to the exact Hebrew words that was written in the original manuscripts or do some words miss or were taken away in order for the translation to be clearer ?? (I wouldn’t see exactly why but I’m no professional translator so...)

But if Strong’s Concordance numbers correspond to the precise written words in original Hebrew manuscript, then I don’t see any negations when I translate every word, WORD FOR WORD.
I see something else. And weirdly it kinda makes sense, at least to me.

What about you BT Family?
Would you bear with me and read what I found when doing a verbatim translation according to the order and the only presence of the Strong’s Concordance numbers of Isaiah 57:1 ?

Here’s what I read: (Strong’s Concordance numbers between brackets)

« The righteous (6662) perished (6 8804), the servant (376) is establishing (7760 8802) the heart (3820); the mortal man (582) merciful [or « shameful »] (2617) is being gathered (622 8737), he is being made intelligent (995 8688).
In the presence (6440) of evil (07451), the righteous (6662) is gathered (622 8738). »

I really don’t mean to add or take away any words from God’s Word.
It’s just a word for word translation.
I took into account conjugation, which is not the case in most of translations I saw for this verse.
I also translated nouns according to Strong’s definitions, I didn’t invented it. And I only added words like « the » or « of » just for a little clarity in the formulation.

Please correct me if I’m wrong in any case, for I cannot read from now on the common and accepted by everyone translation because it never really meant anything to me, until I did this crazy translation which enlighten this verse so much more! At least for crazy me.. 🤗

Please, any specialist/inspired/easily much smarter person than me to help?

Michelle
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indianabob

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Re: Isaiah 57:1
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2019, 12:55:00 AM »

Hi Prune,

Seems like it means that God takes (kills) the righteous early out of love for them that they don't suffer indignation with the unrighteous in the soon coming times of judgment.

Indiana bob
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Prune Soleiado

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Re: Isaiah 57:1
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2019, 02:01:16 AM »

Hello Indiana bob

Here’s the known and established English translation of Isaiah 57:1 from KJV:
« The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come »

Not quite the same as what I read when translating word for word.

I agree with you, it seems like this verse is talking about a sort of rapture from the unrighteousness, if we only take in consideration the established translation.
But I see something else when you look at the verbatim translation where I see this:

Romans 6:7: « because anyone who has died has been set free from sin »
Romans 6:22
« But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eonian life »
Romans 7:6 « But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code »

I see the cleansing process in the House of God, the repentance of the elect ones. Not a rapture.
Rather the justification in action. We are being made ONE with Christ, in Christ, through trials, persecution.
1 Peter 4:17 « For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household »

Isaiah 57:1 seems IMO to tell us more about the process of death to sin , the repentance then the growing in Grace and intelligence, much more than simply a story of the righteous  rapture in the middle of evil people which do not understand nor not pay attention to the righteous suffering.

Hope I’m clear enough...




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Wanda

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Re: Isaiah 57:1
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2019, 01:02:44 PM »

Hi Michele 👋

To add to your thoughts.

Isa. 57:13 – When you cry out, let your collection [of idols] deliver you! The wind will carry all of them off, a breath will take them away. But whoever takes refuge in Me will inherit the land and possess My holy mountain.

Proverbs 14:32
The wicked is driven away in his wickedness: but the righteous hath hope in his death.

The righteous in God were swept away before  the Babylon captivity. Isaiah suggests that many of the righteous will die mercifully, before the Babylonian invasion and therefore be spared the consequences of the nation's judgement.

I see a similarity here between these righteous ones, and the Elect who will be caught up to be with the the Lord, prior to his coming.




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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

Wanda

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Re: Isaiah 57:1
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2019, 01:33:44 PM »

And one more.

Revelations 3:10

Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on the whole world to test the inhabitants of the earth.
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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

John from Kentucky

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Re: Isaiah 57:1
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2019, 05:57:37 PM »

Strong's is not Scripture but the opinions of a biblical scholar who is in error in various places.

The word for word rendering of Scripture is not translation, but is sometimes an incoherent mess.

The Scriptural way for understanding is to follow the two witnesses.  "In the mouth of two or three witnesses let every word be established."  And, "In a multitude of counsellors there is safety."  And, "Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit says the LORD GOD Almighty."
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Isaiah 57:1
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2019, 02:35:21 AM »

I won't argue with what John said (especially since I agree), but will only add that translators are also "in error" in various places. 

It is often difficult to make English sense of word-for-word translations.  Also it is not always wise to ignore English sentence structure when translating words in their order from a different language.

I won't offer this as a short-cut, but as an observation:  When Strong's (or Thayers in the Greek) "define" words of scripture, they do so from usage in the scripture and (likely) understood meaning when the word is encountered outside of scripture.  There's nothing inherently wrong with that.  But often various "definitions" are included in the overall entry.  There will be Definition 1, 2, 3 and/or 4 or more.  I've found with both dictionaries that the further down the list you go, the more "theological/doctrinal" and less "natural" the definitions tend to become, most especially when you jump from the first one to the last one.  For me, bible words don't have special bible meanings.  They mean what they mean and the rest is assumption in translation (and thus bible-dictionary definition)--right, wrong, or kindasorta.

What is it in the KJV that has eluded you and what do you see in your own "translation" that "corrects that"?

Is any part of that passage pertaining to Jesus, or is it all about other "righteous" folks?         
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Dave in Tenn

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Re: Isaiah 57:1
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2019, 02:50:29 AM »

To more directly answer your question, "to come" at the end of the verse was "added" (ie, not clearly in the original unless there is some verb-tense reason for it being there).  It's in italics in my esword version.
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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

Prune Soleiado

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Re: Isaiah 57:1
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2019, 06:31:00 AM »

Yes, John, I totally agree with you.
Dave, Thanks for your answer, didn’t know « to come » was added.
And indeed I find so much more scriptures corresponding with the « translation » word for word rather than the common one.
Romans 6 & 7 & 8 would entirely fit in it.
Peter’s letters as well.
And so much more.
This translating mess I found makes sense to me: it’s deep into the darkness (evil), or when we look behind us that we finally see Jesus, the Light. It is in trials we get to live the life of Jesus. We are not to avoid evil but to face it and then fight it by resisting and overcome it.

Ephesians 6:10-17:
« Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. »
« Last Edit: February 09, 2019, 06:40:40 AM by Prune Soleiado »
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