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Author Topic: Judgement In This Age?  (Read 55861 times)

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Wanda

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Judgement In This Age?
« on: July 16, 2019, 10:00:45 PM »

Interestingly it seems God has been communicating with me through questions lately.

The most recent was this morning while I was busy focusing on something I was doing. The question that popped into my mind was, what warning did God give prior to the attack on the twin towers. I was like WHAT,  where did that come from?   It did get me thinking and I decided I would do further study later, but before that happened I had another question pop into my head. How can we know a judgement is from God?

Almost immediately after the question came I was reminded of the White Throne Judgment. Knowing that the elect are the ones being judged in this age with the rest being judged at the White Throne Judgement, is I think  key to this question I've been stuck on. Isn't that why God's wrath and judgement came on the nation of Israel  in the destruction of Jerusalem?  The Israelites were  after all God's chosen people at that time.

This didn't come out of the blue though
My question about Gods judgement and when he executes it has been at the front of my mind for awhile, due to this doctrine of unhealthy fear, that is so prevelant  in churches, I know I was in one; . As well as some other questions I've had. This seems to have been the piece of understanding that's resolved all of those, questions, unless  I'm wrong of course.

The Apostle Paul says that God “has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness

Acts 17:31

Romans identifies it as “the day of wrath”

Rom. 2:5

Jude calls it “the judgment of the great day”

Jude 6

 1 Peter 4:17
For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?

And then the judgement on the rest of mankind.

Revelation 20:11-15

In light of this how can I believe the attack on the towers on 9/11 was  God's judgement on America, or any other disasters, including natural, that happen prior to the day of judgement God has set aside?

If I'm missing something of key importance, please point it out so I can resolve this. Thanks in advance.



« Last Edit: July 17, 2019, 04:05:15 PM by Wanda »
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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
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Dave in Tenn

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Re: Judgement In This Age?
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2019, 12:36:11 AM »

Isa 26:8  Yea, Jehovah, in the path of Your judgments we awaited You; for Your name and for Your memory is the desire of our soul.
Isa 26:9  With my soul I desire You in the night; yea, with my spirit within me I diligently seek You. For when Your judgments are in the earth, those living in the world learn righteousness.
Isa 26:10  The wicked finds favor; he does not learn righteousness; he deals perversely in the land of honesty, and does not see the majesty of Jehovah.

There's a lot to digest in just those three verses, much less the entire chapter.  Any one of them can send us on a bible-study of epic proportions--once we might begin to think "not topically", but spiritually.  My short answer is simply this:  Did the inhabitants of the world (or even of the US) learn righteousness?  If not, then the promise of "righteous judgement" has not been fulfilled in those living in the world. 






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Heb 10:32  But you must continue to remember those earlier days, how after you were enlightened you endured a hard and painful struggle.

lareli

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Re: Judgement In This Age?
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2019, 12:38:03 PM »

Yes. Some did. Some did not.
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Wanda

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Re: Judgement In This Age?
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2019, 02:40:39 PM »

No, its quiet obvious those in the world have not learned righteousness at this point in time.

Romans 2:5

5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed

A future judgement for each one for his own works, at the White Throne Judgement. He judges in righteousness to teach righteousness, otherwise nothing constructive would be accomplished, by killing people, like in the event with the twin towers on 9/11.or with natural disasters, or even with an end time apocalyptic slaughter.

In Romans 1, Paul makes it pretty clear that in this age God has given mankind over to his own depravity until our Lord returns. I wouldn't expect any less from a just, righteous and loving God.

Romans 1

28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.29 They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. 32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

Thanks Dave. I'll do a study on the scriptures you shared.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 04:37:01 PM by Wanda »
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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
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Wanda

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Re: Judgement In This Age?
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2019, 04:24:05 PM »

Another ever present question I have,  why do people love their God of wrath and destruction so much, they'll run from truth that speaks to the love of God?
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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

lareli

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Re: Judgement In This Age?
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2019, 05:45:11 PM »

Another ever present question I have,  why do people love their God of wrath and destruction so much, they'll run from truth that speaks to the love of God?


I’ve encountered mostly the opposite.

Maybe it’s human nature for us to gravitate towards the extremes when we are in groups such as churches and ideologies.

Sounds like you’ve experienced mostly people on one end of the spectrum. The “wrath and punishment” side of the spectrum. I’ve experienced mostly people on the opposite side of the spectrum. The “God is love and whatever you do is forgiven no matter what-and God accepts you just as you are” side.

And both sides “love” their god because they (we) believe that God is on their (our) side.



« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 06:04:13 PM by lareli »
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Wanda

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Re: Judgement In This Age?
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2019, 06:41:52 PM »

Another ever present question I have,  why do people love their God of wrath and destruction so much, they'll run from truth that speaks to the love of God?


I’ve encountered mostly the opposite.

Maybe it’s human nature for us to gravitate towards the extremes when we are in groups such as churches and ideologies.

Sounds like you’ve experienced mostly people on one end of the spectrum. The “wrath and punishment” side of the spectrum. I’ve experienced mostly people on the opposite side of the spectrum. The “God is love and whatever you do is forgiven no matter what-and God accepts you just as you are” side.

And both sides “love” their god because they (we) believe that God is on their (our) side.

I was speaking in generalities and from past experiences mostly, but have encountered this even with people here among us on this forum. I've personally never met anyone that didn't believe God was going to kill, or torture the unbelievers and some believing even the earth itself must be burned with fire to cleanse it. Even those who believe God loves us in spite of our sinfullness,  hold on to some form of end time, or after death impending doom.

I take it you've never met a die hard hellfire believer. They will defend that doctrine as if their very life depends on it. I know it's out of fear mostly. That's why I think it's so important to emphasize the true love of our creator, whenever we can, especially on this forum, where others read  our comments.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 09:03:15 PM by Wanda »
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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

indianabob

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Re: Judgement In This Age?
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2019, 11:04:31 PM »

Well said Wanda and helpful for understanding.
When people are deceived by false understanding then by definition they do not know that they are believing error and deceived...unless and until God opens their mind to seek truth and gain true understanding. Even then there is the temptation to assume that they figured it out for themselves. That is why it takes many years to attain spiritual maturity.
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Wanda

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Re: Judgement In This Age?
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2019, 11:11:10 PM »

For anyone not familiar with this subject on the judgement God has set aside for a future time.

Excerpt -

LOF III - GOD'S TWO AREAS AND ERAS OF JUDGMENT

https://bible-truths.com/lake3.html

And are these non-believers judged differently from believers who are "revealed, tried, salted and baptized IN FIRE?" Just HOW are these non-believers judged in the book of Revelation? How are the "...fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars..." JUDGED? Answer: "...In the lake WHICH BURNS WITH FIRE..." (Rev. 21:8)!

Is this "fire" in the book of Revelation DIFFERENT from the fire that tries the works of believers in the book of I Corinthians? NO. The word "fire" used in the four examples above concerning believers, is the SAME word "fire" used in the book of Revelation concerning non-believers:





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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

Wanda

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Re: Judgement In This Age?
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2019, 06:33:11 PM »

I thought it might be helpful to share my own experience with God's corrective judgement in my life, as an example.

There are days, and moments when I'm blessed with his spirit to the point the joy of it reduces me to weeping. It is those times, I have more compassion and love for those not given this merciful gift, as well as being fortified in his strength to push on in overcoming. Unfortunately this is not something that fills me all the time, because there is always something more that needs correction and humbling.

It reminds me of a drug addicts first experience getting high. That feeling of euphoria they first experience, that keeps them coming back for more,  but unlike a drug that isn't capable of giving that euphoric feeling for any extended time, God's spirit can and does. I keep coming back for more and more, because those times between correction are so blissful I can't resist the desire to have the experience over and over.

The more of my carnal mind is burned away the more I experience his spirit within me. Is this not the most loving  and constructive way to instill in us a desire to change?  It  encourages  me to want to change, and please my heavenly father, more than satisfying my own sinfull lusts  Nothing has ever been more effective at making me hate my sins. I couldn't do this on my own, without his working in me to correct these destructive desires. There's nothing worse to me than falling short of what God desires of me. It seems I'm always repenting for something.

This is the God of love I've come to know. I guess you could call me a God junkie ;)
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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

indianabob

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Re: Judgement In This Age?
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2019, 02:09:38 PM »

Very well stated Wanda,
It is a confirmation that God never tires of working with you/us.
Plus a reassurance that God never will...
Our salvation is all in God's capable hands.
So we have no need or reason to worry about it all. :)

Thank you for caring and sharing, Bob
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Wanda

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Re: Judgement In This Age?
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2019, 02:58:44 PM »

Very well stated Wanda,
It is a confirmation that God never tires of working with you/us.
Plus a reassurance that God never will...
Our salvation is all in God's capable hands.
So we have no need or reason to worry about it all. :)

Thank you for caring and sharing, Bob

Thank you Bob. I was a little concerned it might be offensive to some.
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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

Musterseed

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Re: Judgement In This Age?
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2019, 05:28:14 PM »

Jude 1:24-25
Now unto Him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless
before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God Our
Saviour through Jesus Christ Our Lord be Glory, and Majesty,Dominion and Power,
both now and ever.Amen

Great is the Lord and most worthy of praise.

In Christ, Pamela ❤️
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Wanda

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Re: Judgement In This Age?
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2019, 10:39:03 PM »

Hebrews 12:1-2

12 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, 2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
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I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness but have the light of life.
                                     John 8:12

Prune Soleiado

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Re: Judgement In This Age?
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2019, 07:52:15 PM »

Thank you Wanda for your testimony! So true!
The judgement we go throught goes way beyond simple corrections from time to time, it’s never « intersected » with moments of joy between moments of deep sadeness. This sadeness, as we live in a carnal mind and body, is always always there walking along with pure and profound love for God and the desire to please Him - makes me think of Jesus when He felt pity for the crowd that followed Him for He had this Will, God’s Will, to cure them- the source of joy is rightly that love you feel for God despite your own self. Yes, this love is not our own self-made love, God put it Inside us, we’re nothing (and too much things), we’re useless, God is Everything,  Jesus is the One and Only way to conquer.
And even our accomplishments shouldn’t be considered as our own, Our Father gives us strenght and faith for it. We’re nothing. Nothing but children. We
must learn and grow up. It demands time, a lot of time, all our lives for say.
No acception, for nobody, we are all on the same level playing field. We are all judged exactly the same way. The elects judgement merely comes before the White Throne Judgment, that’s all. That’s Nothing. For the sufferance will come the same way for everybody, me, you, Hitler, the Hitler Inside of me and you.And the joy too. 
Do we think we have the knowledge to see  the signs of it all? Then we don’t have any knowledge. Do we think we are blessed for sure by God ? Then we may not be for sure. Do any of us think to know better ? Then he’ll be the last among the last ones.
God’s thoughts are not and absolutly not our thoughts. We live on earth, we are carnal, we do not live in facts in our resurrected spiritual bodies, we’ll probably for the lot of us die before the work of God in ourselves is accomplished. We can’t be sure for now of how profound and large and deep is God’s Love. We don’t merely have the Equipment for that. We must hang on to humility, and fear and faith. We must remember.
Remembering our fails, and remembering God’s promise of success. David reminds it in psalms.
I’m saying this while at this very moment I just wish to die physically for I am crossing (like all of you I HOPE) a real hard time, not the world’s like but
the one that can’t keep you from rejoicing and loving God more and more while crying your soul out For it is really really hard to let go of our false beliefs,
you know, the ones we are sure they’re not as bad as it is and we don‘t even think about it or question it, and in the same time, exactly the same time letting go of it all. How schizophrenic ! Longing to be finally one in Jesus as God is one.
Because , for now, we are the false prophets, and the earth trembling down and the signs in the sky and the jews Killing Jesus on the cross and the pitiful crowd and Jesus disciples and the thiefs and the liars and the 144000 and so on. You ken that most of liars don’t even realize they lie.
And God knows how hard it is to manage our lives and love and faith with all this. Miserable men we are as Paul said in Romans.
Thank You soo much Jesus. Thank You Thank You Thank You.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2019, 07:58:13 PM by Prune Soleiado »
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Wanda

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Re: Judgement In This Age?
« Reply #15 on: July 25, 2019, 09:52:22 PM »

Thank you Michele, for your heartfelt words, very inspiring.

It's in our darkest most difficult moments we should draw even closer to our loving Father. It's only by his giving us the strength to hold up under the weight of these heavy burdens that we can endure and overcome. I think of Jesus going off into the mountains to be alone with him, how else would he have ever been able to endure the tremendous and overwhelming expectations so many placed on him, without his Fathers filling him with renewed strength and the hope before him.

Most of his life Jesus only Relied on him in all things. We of course have to be taught through our trials to do this, by his Spirit,  nudging us along bit by bit until it is something we fully grasp, as being absolutely essential to our spiritual growth and our peace of mind. I have come to even consider this is why many of us live lives of solitude. I once was very sociable and not the least happy, when to long a span of time passed before I was doing something that was engaging with others, but now I am content to be alone with God, it's all I seem to need or want.

If you're put in a position that really does separate you, both physically and mentally from the world it can make you want to turn to God when you need emotional support, rather than turning to anyone else, who in all honesty cannot give what only he can give.

I didn't mean to give the impression that God removes his spirit from us, it is we, who when doing what we know is not pleasing to him, that pull away. He tells us he draws near to those who draw near to him, and that is a truth we can all have faith in.  As you stated, It's the influence of our past false teaching that we have to overcome, before we can truly be overcomers. It's those lies that make some of us feel unworthy to turn to God when we sin, but in fact, Our Father is wanting and expecting us to turn to him more at those times so he can help us overcome them. He created us to sin and he's here to love us through to the end, no matter how long it takes.

I don't know what you're dealing with Michele, but I will pray God fortifies you with all you need to endure. I'm going through a difficult trial myself and if it weren't for God helping me, it might be the very thing that finally breaks me.

Praise his holy name. I owe my my all to him.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2019, 10:07:36 PM by Wanda »
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Heidi

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Re: Judgement In This Age?
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2019, 06:25:14 PM »

Thank you both Michelle and Wanda, I can certainly feel and have also experienced this heartfelt joy that only comes when near to God.  I feel physically ill if I have not spent time in His word, on the forum or reading and rereading Ray's papers.  There is a joy to be found that nothing in this world can offer and it is the joy of the Lord.  The more I learn the more I am humbled and quite often will say our loud "oh what a wretched man I am"  The judgment by fire is real and boy does it hurt, but onwards and upwards.  The fear of missing out keeps me going.  How can anything else in life matter more?
Wanda, I have also become very reclusive because I just want to spend time with my Saviour, I can no longer be part of this worlds thinking and view points and consider it all loss so that I can gain Christ!  My heart rejoices in the unity we all seem to experience and the love for God and the desire to move forward and to obtain the end goal.  May God grant us His mercy and grace to do it and not to grow weary.   I love my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ although I have never met you, I know you.
Heidi
« Last Edit: July 30, 2019, 11:11:04 PM by Heidi »
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Prune Soleiado

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Re: Judgement In This Age?
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2019, 08:04:13 AM »

It's only by night that we can see the light. The city on the mountain is visible by night for that's the only thing gleaming in the darkness. By full day, we can't notice its full splendor, just a tiny glimpse of it. Darkness, Night, Obscurity… we can only see it when you're alive in Christ. Dead people Don't know they're dead. They don't know they're walking in the darkness. So the more I suffer for realizing I walk in the valley of darkness, the more I rejoice for seeing the light of Jesus guiding me throught it. We need to see the night surrounding us to see the light. Like Lightning, flash of pain illuminating the splendor and holiness of Our God. Lightning strikes that fill us with repentance, pain, hate for this world, love for Our Father in Jesus, joy, hope.
Solomon says that God dwells in a dark cloud (2 Chronicles 6:1).
2 Corinthians 2:10: "That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. FOR WHEN I AM WEAK, THEN I AM STRONG."
Psalm 97 1-4: "The Lord reigns, let the earth be glad;let the distant shores rejoice. CLOUDS AND THICK DARKNESS SURROUND HIM;righteousness and justice are the foundation of his throne. Fire goes before him and consumes his foes on every side. HIS LIGHTNING LIGHTS UP the world;the earth SEES and trembles. The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.The heavens declare his righteousness, and all the people SEE his glory. Confounded be all they that serve graven images, that boast themselves of idols: worship him, all ye gods.
Zion heard, and was GLAD; and the daughters of Judah REJOICED BECAUSE OF THY JUDGMENTS, O Lord. For thou, Lord, art high above all the earth: thou art exalted far above all gods. Ye that love the Lord, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked. LIGHT is sown for the righteous, and GLADNESS for the upright in heart. REJOICE in the Lord, ye righteous; and give thanks AT THE REMEMBRANCE of his holiness."

« Last Edit: July 27, 2019, 08:08:02 AM by Prune Soleiado »
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Heidi

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Re: Judgement In This Age?
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2019, 09:30:06 PM »

Hi Prune,
Thank you for sharing this, I was overcome with joy and understanding that it IS in the darkness of this present age of this world that our light shines out.
Heidi
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For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring"

Heidi

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Re: Judgement In This Age?
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2019, 11:08:34 PM »

We were also once walking in this darknes, being dead but not knowing we were dead.  Until the wonderful light of Christ shined into our hearts.

Ephesians 2:1-3
1As for you, you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2in which you used to walk when you conformed to the ways of this world and of the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit who is now at work in the sons of disobedience. 3At one time we all lived among them, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh and indulging its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath.

Heidi
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For in him we live and move and have our being.' As some of your own poets have said, 'We are his offspring"
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