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Author Topic: Good & Evil for the education?  (Read 2389 times)

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Brett

  • Guest
Good & Evil for the education?
« on: August 26, 2006, 11:53:02 PM »

Hello,

Ecc 1:13 CLV
"I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens:it is an experience of evil Elohim [God] has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it."


As you know God created knowledge of good and evil. Is that for the education or to learning something in order to be humble before we become spiritual bodies as immortally? Is Ecc. 1:13 'experience' same as educate or learn? I'm hungry to understand and so are you ;D. I hope this is not too hard for you ::).

Thanks.

Brett
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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Good & Evil for the education?
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2006, 03:43:48 AM »

Hi Brett,

God created evil for a purpose.
Pro 16:4  "The Lord has made everything for His purpose, even the sinner for the day of evil."

Isa 45:7  I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.

Evil is necessary for the production or development of good,
and cannot be understood or appreciated without evil.
Knowing good and evil is essential in being formed into the image of God.

To know both good and evil we have to partake of it,
we must sin in order to obtain knowledge.

God has created humanity in a spiritually weakened state,
that is incapable of even understanding spiritual laws and principles,
without His spirit.

Rom 8:7 " because the mind of the flesh is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can it be:"

It is God's intention that men go against His will. 
God is responsible (but not accountable),
everything God does is for a great and benefical purpose.

Man is accountable for his sins.
Rom 14:12  And so, each of us must give an account to God for what we do.

Because we sin from the heart.
Jer 17:9  The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; who can know it?

God takes responsibility for our sin,
and had provided a Saviour before the foundation of the world.

1Pe 1:20  foreknown, indeed, before the foundation of the world, and manifested in the last times because of you,

God has a knowledge and understanding of both good and evil.
We too must come to an understanding of both good and evil.
But these things must be learned by experiences of this life.

God subjects the whole creation to these many evils.
The good news is that all of our suffering is for a grand purppose,
and will ultimately bring us all to God.

1Ti 2:4  who will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
(1Cor. 15:22; 1Tim 2:5-6; 1Tim. 4:10; 2Peter 3:9; John 12:32; Rom. 3:22; Rom 5:18;
1John 2:2; John 3:17; 1John 4:14; Col. 1:20)

Hope this helps.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat


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orion77

  • Guest
Re: Good & Evil for the education?
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2006, 10:18:25 PM »

Hello,

Ecc 1:13 CLV
"I applied my heart to inquiring and exploring by wisdom concerning all that is done under the heavens:it is an experience of evil Elohim [God] has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it."


As you know God created knowledge of good and evil. Is that for the education or to learning something in order to be humble before we become spiritual bodies as immortally? Is Ecc. 1:13 'experience' same as educate or learn? I'm hungry to understand and so are you ;D. I hope this is not too hard for you ::).

Thanks.

Brett


Hello, Brett.

I think we are to follow Him, so the question is, how do we follow Him?  We could never follow Him to the degree that He humbled Himself.  He gave up the glory He had, and became as one of us, to show us the way.  First, what a loving God to do this for us, now we must give up our first estate of the physical, and worship Him in spirit and truth.  Dying to self, this selfish life we are, is the only way to follow Jesus and be like Him.  He gave up His glory, and so we must give up the selfish glory we think we have, in order to truly follow His ways.

Just the way I see it.  Humbling ourselves to the providence of God and His soverignity are words that people like to speak, to be seen by others, yet seems there are few that truly see the beast within, and are humbled by it. 

To love God with all our hearts, our neighbor, and to forgive our enemies, is not something the carnal mind can fathom, it takes the Spirit of God, to truly understand.  We can take credit for nothing, it is all of Him.

God bless,

Gary
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Brett

  • Guest
Re: Good & Evil for the education?
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2006, 01:05:41 AM »

Thank you Bobby, I will read again from http://bible-truths.com/lake2.html.

Kat, your brief comments and scriptures are helpful to me, thank you!

Gary, you said, "We can take credit for nothing, it is all of Him." Very true! Absolutely true! Thanks :D

Brett
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chuckt

  • Guest
Re: Good & Evil for the education?
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2006, 10:37:47 AM »

greetings.

qoute ray

Goes gives man the illusion of having "free" will, which exalts his pride and vanity and causes him to think he can operate independently from God. This then brings about SIN.  SIN is so bad that it needs to be atoned for. God sent His Son Jesus Christ to be this Atonement. 


Sin and evil are absolutely necessary in the development of human character, virtue, and love.

God be with you,

Ray





tell this to the mainstream christian and they freak out.




God is LOVE



 chuckt
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Harryfeat

  • Guest
Re: Good & Evil for the education?
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2006, 11:42:22 AM »

Hello everyone.

Really good posts. Welcome back Chuck t.



Hi Brett,



It is God's intention that men go against His will. 
God is responsible (but not accountable),
everything God does is for a great and benefical purpose.


mercy, peace, and love
Kat




If God intends [wants, wills] man to go against His will, is that called a paradox or a catch 22?

If man could indeed actually go against God's will, then wouldn't man be following God's will by going against God's will?  :o

I am still lost in what exactly are the "parameters" of choice man has.  God is the cause of everything.  Therefore God is the cause of all choices.  I am still studying unencumbered choice.  Sort of like  "free " will in a box.

The utlimate conclusion I get to is. It is not possible for man to go against God's will because then God wouldn't be sovereign. 

*********************************************


Good and Evil

When God formed the light and created darkness what was there beforehand? Was darkness really created separately or just a consequence of the abscence of light. In other words, did darkness exist before God formed the light?

Did God create good?  Did good actually exist before creation of evil or is good just by definition, everything that is not evil?

These are just some of the crazy thoughts that ran through my brain as I read through some of the posts. 

I hope I am not confusing the issues here and hope poeple continue to post their ideas.

feat


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chuckusa

  • Guest
Re: Good & Evil for the education?
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2006, 12:06:19 PM »

Feat,

I think these issues you mention are some of the most confusing. Ever since I was a child, I have wondered how God could hold us accountable for anything if we were created to sin. It is slowly starting to develop into the "big picture" for me, but I know exactly where you are coming from.

Even though some threads can be a little confusing because of so many perspectives in play all at once, it certainly has caused me to search deeper and more diligently for the answers, so possibly even confusion has a purpose here.

Chuckt is so right, without my sins I would have never learned what love really was. I thought I knew...only to discover I was simply a prideful fool. It would seem to be the ultimate human paradox.

I understand the words concerning this issue, it makes SENSE, but it goes against my human logic.

Kat, you are so good at organizing your explainations....could you please spend a weekend in Houston so we could study together  :) :) :)

Love to all,
Chuck

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Kat

  • Guest
Re: Good & Evil for the education?
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2006, 01:28:48 PM »



Hi Bobby,

Your right.
Thanks for making that clear.
God merely brings about the circumstances that influences us.
We make the voluntary choice, it was in our heart and mind to do so.

mercy, peace, and love
Kat


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Brett

  • Guest
Re: Good & Evil for the education?
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2006, 02:20:13 AM »

Kat,

 God does not cause us to sin but we sin when:

James 1:13-15

 13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

 14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

 15Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Matthew 15:18-20

 18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
 
20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.



bobby






Hi Bobby,

That is very correct when you said God does not cause us to sin. I want to make sure if I am understand right in the scriptures. God send Satan/evil spirit to deceive men which of course to sin. God created all things include Satan and evil. Created us in flesh with flaw, so Satan easily tempts us. God absolutely not cause us to sin by Himself but He created things (include Satan/evil) that cause us to sin. Just like God's purpose created Adam and Eve in flesh with lust in it and He created Satan to deceived Eve because her flesh was very easily to lust of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. To me, this is obviousily of God's purpose, yet He did not directly cause us sin:

Jdg 9:23 KJV
Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech:

1Ki 22:23 KJV
Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit [send evil spirit] in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil concerning thee.

Isaiah 63:17 KJV
O LORD, why hast thou made us to err from thy ways, and hardened our heart from thy fear? Return for thy servants' sake, the tribes of thine inheritance.

Rom 8:20 CLV
For to vanity [vanity is sin?] was the creation subjected, not voluntarily, but because of Him Who subjects it, in expectation"


Jam 1:13  Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth He [directly] any man:


That, to me, God never tempt to anyone for evil like directly. God did create Satan/evil to deceive many and many sins because of flesh weakness, marred, lust. When God choose person, Christ (His Spirit) in person and grow through His Grace and able to overcomer because of Christ in him. Without Christ in person, he cannot overcomer regardless how hard he avoid sin because God did not choose him.

Am I right understood? :-\


Brett  :)
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